Rome at War: Suggestions/bugs

[CadetLance]

Hello, great mod so far. I love it, especially since most Rome mods are set during the Late Roman Empire. It's nice to see a change to the Republican Days. 

So here are my suggestions
- Gladiatorial Revolts
- Hierarchy of Units (Contubernium to Century to Cohort, etc.)
- A Stamina System, and I mean for the units, you can add a stamina system for the player too, but I suggest that you add an option to Enable Stamina for yourself and for the units. I want to imitate the Triplex Acies tactic which Rome used against the Samnites, and the point of the tactic is to keep your men well-rested while keeping the enemy units from resting. So adding a Stamina System will make the tactic much more viable.

- You can add 2 new stats to your character, and I don't mean Str and Agi, but similar to Renown and Honor. (Sorry, I don't know what it's called lol) You can add "Popularity with the Masses" and "Popularity with the Senate." (It's a trade-off between each other.) Popularity with the Masses increases the citizens' love for your character, as well as the soldiers' (Since the soldiers at that time were, though well-trained and drilled, still came from a Citizen Body.) loyalty to you. If high enough, you can get an option to dispute the currents' ruler throne, and start civil war. If successful, you dethrone the current king and become the ruler yourself, if not, then you get exiled from your faction and stay an enemy of them. Popularity with the Senate increases the Senate's love for your character, though, you'd have to act like an actual Roman Senator at the time, which means you think that the citizens..Uh, I mean "the masses" didn't matter at all. Which decreases your Popularity with the Citizens, the benefits of this is that you get more fiefs often and you are more likely to be elected Marshall.

- Add a "Dictatorship" option for the Ruler of Rome (and when you become ruler yourself if possible) which elects a Dictator to take control of Rome for a certain period of time when faced with a crisis. Though, this is only temporary and the AI will always revoke his Dictatorship option after a period of time. However, if you are Dictator, you can choose to revoke your rights or not, of course, if you don't..Civil War.

- Add more depth to Sieges and Battles, and I mean the pre-battle options, weren't there mods that added options like "Give your men an inspiring speech," "Challenge the enemy to a duel" and "Send out skirmishers"? And for sieges you could've built circumvilation, sanitation and entrench your siege camp. It'd be a nice addition to this mod.

- Maybe you can make the AI (Or if you don't plan to edit the AI for this mod, that's fine.) for the Roman Commanders imitate the Triplex Acies to some extent.

- Ambushes.

- Maybe you can update the PBOD part of this Mod, since in the new one, you can set how many ranks your formation will have.

- Perhaps you can stretch the factions as far as from Northern Africa (Carthage, Libya, etc.) to Modern France (Gallic Tribes) to Southern Britannia. (The Bretonnian Tribes, though not the Scottish Tribes or the Irish Ones.) Oh, and don't forget the ones in Spain. :3

- This seems like a really insane idea, and may not even be possible, but perhaps you can create an event where the entire Roman Army, from equipment to units, changes during 103BC, to replicate the Marian Reforms.

Also, here are some bugs I've noticed during playing, though, surprisingly for an Alpha Game, I've only noticed two. o.o

- I don't know how to reproduce this problem, since it's only happened once during my entire playtime, but at some point all the Villages run out of Garrison and they never gain it again.

- When I make my men form ranks and tell them to "stand closer," instead of actually standing close, they tend to move sideways, this would be normal since I've noticed they move sideways while compressing, but they entire unit seems to just go sideways and not compress at all. Perhaps it's because I use the "Unnamed Divisions" which might affect it. (And this is optional, but can you make the Unnamed Divisions Infantry ones and not for Archers?)

- Okay, I said I only noticed two bugs, but this one is really minor, M&B Warband displays the year as -300 instead of "300BC," (or BCE, whichever you prefer.) unless this is an Engine Limitation, I'd like to request a change to this.

Keep working on this great mod, it has a lot of potential. Good luck.

 

[Seek n Destroy]

1- In 300 B.C. there were no dedicated gladiators like in the Imperial era so no reason for any gladiatorial revolt. The closest we have to gladiatorial fights are ceremonial fights to death (often between prisoners of war) or fighting competitions.

2- Maybe in the future I'll make an option to quickly levy a pre-made army/legion.

3- No plans for this right now, more scripts running simultaneously in battle reduces stability ans I've been trying to optimize the mod.

4 and 5 - I've thought about a system to achieve ranks within a faction or even outside of it but it's still in planning stage since there's much to be done before that.

6- Started experimenting with additional spawn points in Sieges but it's not enough, the AI needs more "objectives" to make the sieges more interesting, above all I want to avoid the 1 ladder slugfest that is Native sieges.

7- Meddling with the AI is a bit too complicated for me at the moment.

8- Not sure about that, needs to be implemented in a way that makes sense.

9- Isn't that the WFaS formations? Irc the AI makes poor use of it and it doesn't "lock" the AI in the formation, making it a mess when the enemy approaches.

10- Nope, we just can't make factions that fast so we decided to reduce the scope of the mod and make it more focused:

Spoiler: Work in Progress Map

Spoiler

In red the zone we'll be focusing for now and the rest is the maximum expansion of the map.

11- 200 years playthrough in Warband is insane, not counting that NPCs including the player would need to be replaced at least 3 or 4 times and extended campaigns in Warband have a tendency to corrupt saves. I had thought of more reasonable reforms triggered by certain actions such as a Thureo reform for the Greeks and Polybian reform for Rome.

12- It can happen when a faction's economy crashes, right now there is a bug that causes Etruscan economy to inevitably crash down resulting in their villages being unable to train troops.

13- That happens with the archer divisions only and the unnamed ones too I guess, latest version of PBOD fixes it but it relies on WSE. I'll see if I can fix it myself.

14- If I set it to positive 300 B.C. the next year will be 301 B.C., I was too lazy to bother rewriting the dating system of the mod. The easy-ish alternative would be using the Roman dating system AUC (Ab Urbe Condita) but it's less intuitive since we are used to the Gregorian Calendar.

Thanks.

 

[CadetLance]

3 - I see, no need to add it then. I can just keep the satisfaction of making this tactic work as its own reward.

4 & 5 - I look forward to it.

6 - Sorry, I'm not much of a modder, so I don't really know what AI "Objectives" mean

7 - Oh, that's fine.

8 - This might be too complicated to do, but since I've noticed that many of the trees are set beside mountains, maybe you can only have them set an ambush in those spots. And chance success relies on the "Tactics" skill of the opposing forces. Though, this may be limited by the Engine..

9 - Oh, sorry. D:

10 - Oh, Northern Africa, Spain, Modern France and Modern Britain were empty so I thought you were planning to add factions there. Seems like I was wrong though, but that's fine.

11 - Haha, it was an unreasonable suggestion anyway lol

12 - Hope it gets fixed soon.

13 - Same for this one, perhaps you can fix it by converting the Unnamed Groups from Archer Divisions to Infantry ones..

 

[MarcusU]

Would it be possible to make some of the Thoorax armours more shiny and give them a polished look because it would look really nice?

 

[Seek n Destroy]

Those are pretty old models, maybe Rgcotl will remake them one day.

 

[Inzunza]

Fairly certain you're going to hate me after this post.

Great start, I know.  Anyways, I really enjoy this mod.  The single player is fun and focuses on a niche period of history (not the Corinthian helmet wearing greeks or Marian Romans).  It has my personal favorite Greek city state of Syracuse (meh boiz <3) and generally looks gorgeous.  I can't wait for Carthage to be added so I can help Agathocles with his reconquest.  Heard he was a bit of a **** but I can overlook that provided Sicily expands.  Ignoring my personal bias, I did a bit more research into this forum and found that there are several proposed factions to later be added (the satellite map with red box generally abridges that bit).  Now the part you're probably going to hate.

My expertise from the era is limited, I'll admit.  Most of what I know happens to be from Youtube videos and Rome 2 Total War (which is probably the WORST source possible but is a step up in historical accuracy when compared to Rome 1.  Furthermore, I got the game fairly recently so there is a very good chance that early release was just as inaccurate).  That being said, I have always had the belief that total war games should focus on their era a bit better.  In this case, the mod starts at 300BC which is a great time.  Between Alexander's conquests and the rise of Rome.  Maybe the perfect time, but that's a topic for another time.

Essentially the single player campaign map will look something like this.

Spoiler

300 BC

Nothing wrong with that.  It's a great point for a single player campaign.  Everything is there, basically.  However, that will eventually become this.

Spoiler

100 BC

No one expects a game to last two hundred years.  However, that bit of logic is just single player.  The mod itself is single player and multiplayer.  I personally believe the multiplayer should be more open with the options of factions and should include rather important events in the Pre-Marian world.  The rise of Parthia, the war with the Cimbrians, and events to that nature.  Thus, balancing the multiplayer and the single player becomes a chore as off the campaign map you'll find recreations of large, real world battles that would happen years after your character in single player should have died, decomposed, and their grave becomes long forgotten until some backyard archaeologist finds you while looking to fix his watering system and tosses your thigh bone to his designer dog, Aberto.

However, the bigger issue is that adding factions is a PAIN in the ass.  With the exception of most Greek factions (which would basically use the same equipment), there would have to be more weapons and armor added as well as characters, cities, and further historical research.  Not easy, which is perhaps one of the reasons the main map is being shrunk.  In addition, adding too many factions in general would affect the multiplayer game play.  Selecting a certain faction can be difficult and impossible to choose a 48th faction as it hangs off screen and will remain out of reach of you and the scroller wheel.  24 factions should be the limit but 20 is ideal, I believe.

That being said, drawing inspiration from the former maps I just linked, I'd like to present this little image.

Spoiler

Proposed Map (nations numbered from proximity and assumed prominence, greatest to least involved)

1)  Rome
2)  Samnium
3)  Etruscan
4)  Carthage
5)  Syracuse
6)  Taras
7)  Osco-Umbrian Tribes
  Celts
9)  Illyrian Tribes
10)  Epirus
11)  Macedon
12)  Greek City States
13)  Ptolemy Egypt
14)  Seleucid Empire
15)  Iberian Tribes
16)  Thracian Tribes
17)  Dacian Tribes
1  Germanic Tribes
19)  Massilia
20)  Pontus
21)  Scythia
22)  Armenia
23)  Persian Satrapies (or tribes)
24)  Lysimachus's Kingdom
25)  Numidian Tribes
26)  Black Sea Colonies and Caucus Kingdoms
27)  Nabataean Kingdom

It clearly drew inspiration from the previous maps.  Not ideal as you can tell from number 27 but hear me out.  It has a very anachronistic view on things as you can probably tell.  For example, Pontus was basically merged with Cappadocia and Persia exists as some sort of horseshoe.  The idea behind this is to merge the factions with certain other factions and compensates with particular... features.  For example, have Pondocia and Armenia fight the Seleucid Empire as a part of a rebellion while the Persian horseshoe is a satrapy and basically a pawn which they'll eventually break free of.  The satrapy of horseshoe could perhaps be considered Iranian or Persian Peoples or Tribes.  Or something to that degree, I don't know.  This would allow a Parthian faction in multiplayer while also hiding the fact that they weren't a free nation in single player (at least not until 40 years later).  The less believable option, however, is Colchis and Cimmeria which have been merged with the caucus nations to form another faction.  The entirety of the Celts combined to form a single Celtic nation despite being from very separate tribes.

There lies a greater issue.  Individual tribes.

I'd like to propose a simpler idea where the cities of the Celts are named after the tribes themselves like where the Czech Republic is would be the settlement of "Boii" for example.  This could be done with the Illyrians as well, the Iberians, the Thracians, the Germans, perhaps even the Scythians.  To not make them too overpowered, keep the settlements far apart and the Scythians with the other steppe tribes having the most distant settlements to reflect the nomadic nature.  It'll probably be horrible to siege anything of theirs, but it'd be appropriate with them being Nomads.  I don't believe the Scythians were ever conquered by any civilized nation but I could be wrong.

That being said, there are still several factions more than there has to be.  I suggested 24 and the map has 27.  Well, I already took it upon myself to cut that number down to 23.

Spoiler

The caucus and the black sea have been absorbed by Armenia and Pontus respectfully, Numidia has been incorporated into Carthage, Nabataeans could be removed and replaced with bandits that are specific to the region while Lysimachus's Kingdom has been absorbed as part of the Seleucid Empire.  Frankly, I think there are already an absurd amount of Greek nations and I'm unsure how historically significant that particular Diadochi state was.  Of course, the Persians could also be removed if the original map is still preferred and that'd make it 22 right there.  Remove Armenia entirely, 21.  Work your way down.  Honestly, if Massilia wasn't so far away, I'd say make it part of another faction.

But that's just my view and opinion on the single player and multiplayer factions.  Even if you ignore EVERYTHING I say, hopefully the maps will at least help a little bit.  Finally, I think I'd like to propose two more suggestions.  Firstly, could you find it in the kindness of your heart to add more helmets to Syracuse's multiplayer unit roster?  Helmets that aren't that the Phrygian helmet for more diversity?  Such as this little guy.

Spoiler

It's available to the Syracuse general in multiplayer but not any other troop.  But, that's super minimal compared to everything else.  What's also super minimal is "I think that same helmet would look amazing with a blue and white scheme as well as red and black and would be super easy to add as it's just a retexture with bonus points if the ear protector bits are removed (which is less easy) and I'd add it myself but I'm hoping to be able to use it in multiplayer" but we're done talking minimal. 

Last topic, I know this is a total ***** to even think about but it'd be nice to see the armor in game supported for female characters.  I don't personally play female characters but I know of a lot of people who do.  However, my dog in the ring are the female companions whose entire bodies change in different armors.  But as with the Syracuse helmet variety, it's quite minimal.

That being said, thank you for your time in reading this.  I greatly appreciate this mod and I'll be happy to send you like $20 dollars for the blue helmet for Syracuse.  It's not a transaction; it's a bribe.  Thanks again.

-Inzunza

Edit:  DAMMIT, I forgot to mention this.

Persian shirts with Greek Armor.  There is one already in game (Alexander the Great's spolas).  Would it be possible to add more armors like that in game so you don't have to run around with exposed arms and boring chiton?  It wouldn't be too outlandish as Alexander and sometimes his generals would wear them (as Alexander was very into Persian culture and customs).

 

[Seek n Destroy]

When working on the new unfinished map we decided to work on a more focused area of the world in order to make the current factions more in depth and try to better represent the political situation of the era.
This represents the maximum extent of the future map and in the red rectangle the area we'll focus on first:

Spoiler

Just with that in mind and without adding any substantially different faction we'd be looking at around 20 factions which is more than the double of the current factions. In Italy we'd have the Romans, Etruscans, Samnites, Lucanians, Umbrians, Picenes, Messapians, Apulians, Syracusans, City-states of Magna Graecia, Ligurians, Veneti, Senones and Boii/Cenomani/insubres. We still haven't decided wether or not to split the City-states of Magna Graecia due to some tensions and past wars between Kroton and some other cities but splitting up would certainly limit their survival and 300 B.C. onward they weren't best friends but infighting wasn't notable compared to being harassed by the Lucanians. There's also the Bruttians that might not end up as an independent faction because they didn't held considerable territory so they'll likely be a part of the Lucanians as, if I recall correctly, they descended from the same people.
In Greece we'd have the current Greek League split in two, the cities loyal to Demetrios Poliorcetes as a Greek League and all the rest as the "Free Cities" for the sake of convenience else there would be a dozen more micro-factions, in addition there would be the Aetolian League, Macedon, the Epeirote League and Lysimachos' Kingdom.
That's a hefty number of factions without going into uncharted territory. Concerning new items or variants I can't promise anything, most factions should receive an overhaul though and sleeves were planned for some linothorax armors for the Greek factions but Rg wanted to make a new cloth model but at the same time considered it tedious/boring work so it's up to whenever he feels like it or if it goes up on the to-do list.

 

[Inzunza]

When working on the new unfinished map we decided to work on a more focused area of the world in order to make the current factions more in depth and try to better represent the political situation of the era.
This represents the maximum extent of the future map and in the red rectangle the area we'll focus on first:

Spoiler

Just with that in mind and without adding any substantially different faction we'd be looking at around 20 factions which is more than the double of the current factions. In Italy we'd have the Romans, Etruscans, Samnites, Lucanians, Umbrians, Picenes, Messapians, Apulians, Syracusans, City-states of Magna Graecia, Ligurians, Veneti, Senones and Boii/Cenomani/insubres. We still haven't decided wether or not to split the City-states of Magna Graecia due to some tensions and past wars between Kroton and some other cities but splitting up would certainly limit their survival and 300 B.C. onward they weren't best friends but infighting wasn't notable compared to being harassed by the Lucanians. There's also the Bruttians that might not end up as an independent faction because they didn't held considerable territory so they'll likely be a part of the Lucanians as, if I recall correctly, they descended from the same people.
In Greece we'd have the current Greek League split in two, the cities loyal to Demetrios Poliorcetes as a Greek League and all the rest as the "Free Cities" for the sake of convenience else there would be a dozen more micro-factions, in addition there would be the Aetolian League, Macedon, the Epeirote League and Lysimachos' Kingdom.
That's a hefty number of factions without going into uncharted territory.

Yes, I've seen the map.  Same one as that's been posted in this thread and the Seleucid research thread.  Again, I was vainly hoping you'd be open to bundling several of the factions together.  This particular gave me some hope on that matter.

Current plan is to have the Lucanians, Apulians, Messapians, Picenes and Umbrians added to the Osco-Umbrian faction roster or at least it's what we're aiming for in the next major update, after that I do not know if we'll add more as I think those are the most relevant in our timeframe.

I had hoped you wouldn't stop at the Osco-Umbrians but continue the bundling to other factions as well.  Broad strokes would get the general point across and I think would perhaps be easier in the long run.  But, I already said what I needed and I won't press the issue any further.

Concerning new items or variants I can't promise anything, most factions should receive an overhaul though and sleeves were planned for some linothorax armors for the Greek factions but Rg wanted to make a new cloth model but at the same time considered it tedious/boring work so it's up to whenever he feels like it or if it goes up on the to-do list.

Mind you, I was mostly kidding about the blue helmet thing (admittedly, I've already redone the color myself).  More helmet variety for Syracuse troops, fem armor, and persian shirts however is something I'd definitely I'd appreciate as well as those who play female characters.

I would like to suggest one more thing.  If you have the funds to afford some armor like the breastplate or whatever, I'm fairly certain you'd be able to afford some nice quality chiton or whatever.  Always wondered why it was so frayed and damaged.  The fact that someone (that someone being Rg) is going to revamp the cloth, I'm extra optimistic.

Anyways, thanks again for responding (particularly so quickly).

Edit:  Figure I'll include an image of my reskinned armor.  For encouragement and also because I like to brag. 

Spoiler

 

[Seek n Destroy]

We're kinda aiming in the other direction and trying to be more focused and less broad, with some work we should be able to overhaul and split the Osco-Umbrian tribes while maintaining a distinct look between them which should be possible with the references we collected over the years.

Rg is short for Rgcotl who is one of the original creators of the mod and the main (most of the time the only) modeler so it's up to him what gets made or not. I'm sure there's a lot he wish to do but that's only if he finds the time and motivation to do it and I'm afraid things like female variants of all the armor models is highly unlikely considering the amount of work required. If it was easy it would have been done already and we feel the time would be best spent working on new things.

While I'm in a certain way a fan of Agathocles for being a clever bastard of humble origins who managed to be a real pain to Carthage and a financial genius (kill mercenaries so you don't have to pay them) I just can't go with favoritism. As stated most, or rather, all factions should receive an overhaul whenever it's possible. We're a small team with admittedly slow progress at times.

I did try to make some variants to the helmet some months ago:

Spoiler

I also tried to convince Rgcotl to add some feather holders and a crest support but none of it is done yet. Persian equipment is also out of question for now, there are many areas to expand first.
Concerning the chiton and exomis the models were made about 5 years ago so they are candidates for a remake like the old linothorax armors compared to the newest ones:

Spoiler

But first should come a new Roman tunic since it's the only reason we don't have a new hamata model for them, the mail is done but the tunic isn't. The only thing I can confirm is done is the new celtic long sleeve shirts.

 

[Inzunza]

Persian equipment isn't what I mean.  Just a variant to all the armors where instead of a spolas on chiton or a tunic, it's the long sleeved Persian shirt.  The in-game example is Alexander's armor.  But I understand not having the time to devout to an entirely new wardrobe, especially if it's being opened to the fairer sex.  I really like that helmet, btw.  I take it that it'll be for Carthaginians?

Anyways, I noticed some odd features in the texture files where some armors have their entire texture in one image while others use several to accommodate far more.  Guess being modded over the years would explain it.  I've had the mod downloaded for most of last year but only really got super interested in playing recently with my curiosity about Carthage leading me to the forums and then notice the ambitions of the mod.  And thus my imagination went wild and I couldn't contain my voice.  Glad you were so patient with.

Regardless, you're all doing incredible work.  Also, you should consider painting the crest on that helmet red to further the two tone effect.

Spoiler

 

[EFREM]

Female armours would make this mod totally PEGI 18+

 

[Holmgaardviking]

maibe put more helmets in gaeym pls. also when is finich mod?

 

[EFREM]

Unfortunately the oracle obliged us to respect the Kàrneia festivities. Until  that it is unrespectful to let the mod come out for war.

 

[Dansk viking]

What this mod needs is more sandal variety.

 

[Seek n Destroy]

Swords and sandals!
Fancy pants are already incoming.

 

[matmohair1]

Focus Storia Wars 2017-04 (24)

Enemies of the Roman Republic  didn't know where to post these,
its all too diverse for the research thread of a single faction ...

Spoiler

 

[matmohair1]

will Celtic hill-forts be included?

Spoiler

also, how about including enemy trophies
as decorative elements within Roman frontier bases...

Spoiler

 

[Diokles]

Just dropping off some suggestions since its been awhile, preferably ones that might have never been asked and/or haven't already been eluded to.

[list type=decimal]
[*]Would it be possible to have the pikes do a sort of brace animation that can damage both players and horses? If not, than perhaps a secondary animation for stabbing closer opponents?
[*]Having a system on the server that allows more than 2 factions to be played on the map, similar to Deluge. I.E Safinem & Epeiros vs. Romani
[*]Another system on the server that allows the selection of the weather and time of day for the map, also like in Deluge.
[*]Allow troops with shields to bang on them, as a form of taunting the enemy. A feature that is present in Vikingr and Viking Conquest.
[*]Replace the kick animation with a shield bash for those carrying a shield. If they do not have a shield, than it should remain as the kick animation for obvious reasons.
[*]A side effect of the kick could be to disarm them of either their shield or weapon.
[*]Replace the gloves equipment slot with a cloak slot, or something of the sorts.[/list]

I understand if some of these may seem hard to implement and have to be passed over. Ideas are a dime a dozen, the real trouble would be adding them in.

 

[Dansk viking]

Just to add to the discussion about overarm vs. underarm spear use that we had on around page 81 here: I don't usually watch this guy's videos, but this particular one illustrates very well my point about the sauroter being a danger to friends behind you if you use an underarm grip.



EDIT: Which it turns out we already used back then. But whatever, good points deserve repeating.

My dream scenario would be to have two spear stances with each two different modes. In Víkingr (which I think could also benefit from this, also since RaW is already much more enjoyable for spear wielders) you have a toggle for throwing spears (only the variant used for cavalry) where you could use P to switch between stances. One with the modes (switched with X) couching/overhead and the other with throwing/overhead.

For infantry spear users I would then suggest to have:
- Underarm stance with overhead/under shoulder modes (like the current standard)
- Overarm stance with overhead/throwing modes.

 

[Orbit-]

Essentially the single player campaign map will look something like this.

Spoiler

300 BC

Nothing wrong with that.  It's a great point for a single player campaign.  Everything is there, basically.  However, that will eventually become this.

The only problem with that map is in Caucasia, the Albania was actually Aghvania, people often mistake this with European Albania 

Anyways cant wait to conquer Rome after creating a huge Balkan Kingdom