SP - General Roguery

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EverKira

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Right now Roguery is secretly (I say secretly because a lot of players do not know this) in control of the largest portion of the gameplay loop: looting and selling that loot to fund more wars to get more loot. However, the selling of said loot does not increase roguery's level (which is why most people don't realize that roguery is tied to loot) and it doesn't increase trade at all. So the largest portion of the gameplay loop is effectively not leveling up the player at all.

How do we fix this:

Option 1: Make loot from battles increase roguery at a percentage of the value of said loot.

Option 2: Make loot from battle increase trade for a smaller percentage than trading does

Option 3: Adding that role for the party (in Warband looting was a party skill and the highest looter in the party was what determined your loot quality)

Option 4: Do nothing and continue as things are hoping it will fix itself (this is a joke, TW do not do this)
 
Option 10 : Make trading with loot give a low percentage of the value as Trade - XP <---- This might or might not be what you ment with Option 2

Option 11: Make a few "Partyleader" perks that in Rougery - tree that improves loot Quantity and Quality

Then I go for option 1, 10 and 11 ! :grin:
 
Option 10 : Make trading with loot give a low percentage of the value as Trade - XP <---- This might or might not be what you ment with Option 2

Option 11: Make a few "Partyleader" perks that in Rougery - tree that improves loot Quantity and Quality

Then I go for option 1, 10 and 11 ! :grin:
Option 10 is what I meant by option 2. And option 11 is sort of already in place since as Roguery levels you gain .025% for each level. It just doesn't quite show up unless you click on the i in a circle icon on the description tile and in fact (while thinking about this reply I looked it up and took screenshots)
T-y8Q.jpg
This is the final skill that gives more loot for every skill point over 200 unlocks at 275.

f-8c2.jpg

And this is the 225 leader perk that decreases the sale penalty for weapons.
 
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roguery should have nothing to do with what you find on the battlefield after defeating an enemy army.
So neither the current state of things nor these suggestions seem useful or innovative to improve the playing conditions.

The sooner you stop entering trivial numbers to add farming and grinding, the sooner we will come up with better ideas to improve the game.

The loot should be the same as what deceased enemy units wore on the field.
Did 400 enemies in lamellar armor die?
and then you find 400 lamellar armor.

The question is: those 400 lamellar armor would pay too much in the game, so how can we not make everyone rich after a fight?
Simple: Such equipment must have a durability and this durability affects both their efficiency (armor value) and their sale and purchase price.
In addition, skill smithing could be taken into more consideration by virtue of the addition of these mechanics.
In short: after you collect badly made armor, maybe, if you have blacksmith skills or if you have many blacksmiths, you can put them back in order (spending money and time) and resell them at a higher price, earning a little.

SMITHING SKILL, EQUIPMENT DETERIORATION and MAINTENANCE system, PRICE BALANCE.
 
roguery should have nothing to do with what you find on the battlefield after defeating an enemy army.
So neither the current state of things nor these suggestions seem useful or innovative to improve the playing conditions.

The sooner you stop entering trivial numbers to add farming and grinding, the sooner we will come up with better ideas to improve the game.

The loot should be the same as what deceased enemy units wore on the field.
Did 400 enemies in lamellar armor die?
and then you find 400 lamellar armor.

The question is: those 400 lamellar armor would pay too much in the game, so how can we not make everyone rich after a fight?
Simple: Such equipment must have a durability and this durability affects both their efficiency (armor value) and their sale and purchase price.
In addition, skill smithing could be taken into more consideration by virtue of the addition of these mechanics.
In short: after you collect badly made armor, maybe, if you have blacksmith skills or if you have many blacksmiths, you can put them back in order (spending money and time) and resell them at a higher price, earning a little.

SMITHING SKILL, EQUIPMENT DETERIORATION and MAINTENANCE system, PRICE BALANCE.
The economy in this game is already broken. Unless upgrading troops included actually purchasing the gear necessary for the new unit, you would be flooding the world with gear that is currently overpriced beyond what the economy would be able to bear. Defeating a group of forest bandits would net you bows worth 263,000 denars. It's not sustainable. Warband had a Looting skill and that worked because it was a party skill so you could designate a companion as the lootmaster and get good stuff. Right now the casual players don't understand why Roguery is important and leveling it requires: a) being a bandit and attacking villages, b) being a bandit and attacking caravans or c) selling a boatload of prisoners in the tavern or d) busting a bunch of people out of prison. Not a bit of this skill levels with the main gameplay loop if you don't take understand why taking prisoners is important even though it has a massive impact on the loop itself. That's what needs to be tweaked, not completely overhauling the loot system in such a way as to break the game.
 
with 150+ Roguery i usually get less than 7% chance to enter an enemy city (to rescue a prisoner for example) so, don't really know whats the real point on using Roguery in its actual state.
 
with 150+ Roguery i usually get less than 7% chance to enter an enemy city (to rescue a prisoner for example) so, don't really know whats the real point on using Roguery in its actual state.
The point of Roguery us to improve the quality and quantity of the loot you get after battles. But the game does a very poor job of explaining it.
 
Unless upgrading troops included actually purchasing the gear necessary for the new unit,
obviously you have to do the maintenance on the equipment (in monetary and / or material terms).
Defeating a group of forest bandits would net you bows worth 263,000 denars
Of course, that bow doesn't have to cost 260,000 coins.

ECONOMY, PRODUCTION, SOCIAL STABILITY, ARMIES MAINTENANCE and EQUIPMENT MAINTENANCE
SMITHING SKILL, EQUIPMENT DETERIORATION and MAINTENANCE system, PRICE BALANCE.
The first link suggests how to outline an economy based on effective production and on the needs of the population, with all possible socio-economic consequences.

The second link I entered previously but apparently you have not read it, otherwise you would not have asked your comments since you could have read the answers there.
It talks about the cost of maintaining both your own equipment and that of the army.
It's all written in those threads.

The skill is badly done precisely because it intervenes in a field that is not his own.

-Should be used for some skill related to silent movement (crouch)
- should be related to the speed of movement when crouched
-should be linked to the ability to jump smoothly and without decomposition.
- it should be related to the ability to climb.
-should be related to the ability to pick locks
- it should be linked to the ability to sabotage mechanisms
- it should be related to the ability to have gangs intervene during a siege, or perhaps to convince them to sabotage the doors.
- and much more that I'm not writing about.

All to insert mechanics of:
- stealth and intrusion
- murder
- lock picking
- sabotage (in first person)
- ability to control the gangs and make them perform certain actions (sabotage during the siege or intervention during the assault on the walls).

This is supposed to be roguery, not loot.
 
The skill is badly done precisely because it intervenes in a field that is not his own.

-Should be used for some skill related to silent movement (crouch)
- should be related to the speed of movement when crouched
-should be linked to the ability to jump smoothly and without decomposition.
- it should be related to the ability to climb.
-should be related to the ability to pick locks
- it should be linked to the ability to sabotage mechanisms
- it should be related to the ability to have gangs intervene during a siege, or perhaps to convince them to sabotage the doors.
- and much more that I'm not writing about.

All to insert mechanics of:
- stealth and intrusion
- murder
- lock picking
- sabotage (in first person)
- ability to control the gangs and make them perform certain actions (sabotage during the siege or intervention during the assault on the walls).

This is supposed to be roguery, not loot.
It seems like you are just trying to shoehorn stealth mechanics into an army building and management game. This would end up making there be very few poorly implemented stealth missions that do not improve the game. I don't doubt that you think these would be an improvement but I do not see their usefulness being better than Roguery is right now because it takes the skill completely outside of the main gameplay loop of: fighting, looting, capturing enemies and selling the loot and captured enemies to fund more fighting. At least right now it has some bearing and a small impact on the main gameplay loop. I just want it to level up based on selling your loot, or at least let the loot level up trade at a reduced rate.
 
fighting, looting, capturing enemies and selling the loot and captured enemies to fund more fighting
Of course the roguery skill would be separated from this gameplay loop, because actually the skille this loop has nothing to do.
They can very well coexist separately.
Mixing two things deeply just to say that they are there but distorting them does not seem like a good idea to me.
Especially if it doesn't add gameplay mechanics.

Imagine if a lord gives you a mission to infiltrate enemy walls to carry out a sabotage (for example, setting fire to the barn or starting a random fire to serve as a diversion).
With a rope you climb with a silence and speed proportional to your roguery skill and athletic skil.
Once you get on, try not to get caught if you can, or take out the guards that are in your path (if possible).
If you believe that the mission has a high probability of success, continue towards the objective, otherwise you go back to your lord and inform him that it cannot be done.

Introducing these mechanics would make the roguery skill meaningful.
What is needed to intervene on the loop and prices:
-TIME: looting takes time.
The number of equipment you find compared to the total present is proportional to the time you take to collect.
you decide how much to collect and as soon as you see an enemy approaching, you stop welcoming, as in the looting of a village, which takes time.

SCOUTING:
Mainly it determines and increases the amount of loot found in the unit of time and to a lesser extent it determines the monetary value regardless of durability.

SMITHING:
Mainly it determines and increases the quality of the loot found, intended both in terms of DURABILITY and MONETARY VALUE, but it does not determine the number of equipment found in the unit of time.
Also it can be used to improve the condition of that equipment, as I describe in the thread.

TRADE:
This skill should manage (and already does, but badly) contractual relationships.
I think the current system where you have to choose between two perks is limiting, mundane and unrealistic.

So to give an example:
suppose there were 100 enemies on the battlefield.
At the end of the battle 75 died and 25 fled.
Of those 75 around should have their equipment.
If each soldier wore 5 pieces (head, arms, torso and legs), then there are 75 * 5 = 375 pieces of equipment in the field
To collect them all, with the current scouting value (10) it would take 15 hours.
If we had scouting 100 it would take us 5 hours.

Let's assume that we have scouting 10 and we collect for 5 hours, it means that we will find 125 pieces of equipment out of the total.
But 125 pieces of what quality?
Based on skill scouting 10 and our skill smithing (50) we find equipment with a given economic value and with a given durability.
If the two skills are low and the time it takes us to collect is not the total but less, then of 375 pieces we will find among those 125 pieces those with the worst durability and the worst condition.
If, on the other hand, we have a lot of scouting and little smithing, we will find many pieces but with some valuable equipment but with low durability and many low-value equipment but with a not bad durability.
If, on the other hand, scouting is low but smithing is high, we will find much less than 125 pieces out of 375, but of those few we will have those with high economic value and good durability.
Having both skills high then of those 375 pieces we will find the 125 with the greatest economic value and the best durability.

If we spent 100% of the collection time we would find all the equipment, 375 pieces, with the durability and monetary value that they have.
Therefore, the skills themselves do not affect the quality of the whole loot, but only the probability of finding the loot among all, the one of value and / or in good condition, and on the collection time.

After that the collected loot can be "maintained" with the smithing skill, at the cost of materials (which have a cost and / or availability) and money, in order to equip or sell it (here the skill trade helps a lot of course).

In light of all this, is a high collection number of low-value equipment or a low collection number of high-value equipment better?
answer: it depends
Sometimes you don't need money, but the amount of MATERIAL is essential (to equip an army and forge weapons and armor for everyone).
In this case, if you want to increase the production of a certain good in a city, even the loot with low economic value can be useful if in large quantities (a lot of iron or steel is recovered for example).

I prefer a system that is less based on arbitrary parameters and more consistent with the physical reality of things and the economics of things.
To make equipment you need material.
To make armies you also need equipment, so you consume material which decreases where it was collected.
The army loses and the material is transferred to the winner.
With that material he strengthens his army.

You will say: but the villages always produce materials.
And if you have read my thread you will also have seen that the materials degrade both with time and with use until they disappear because they are considered irrecoverable.
So on the one hand the resource appears and on the other it disappears, so that the world is not full of weapons, equipment and more.
 
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