Roads in Calradia

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Hey everybody,

Why no roads in Calradia? :ohdear:

I know we have discussed this before but i couldnt find at topic for it, hence this new thread.  :wink:
The map somehow looks incomplete in my eyes when there are no roads.
blog_post_70_taleworldswebsite_02.jpg

You could have dirt roads between villages and Towns/Castles, and paved roads between the Towns? :fruity: :iamamoron: :idea:

Reasons for Roads:
Faster travel between towns.
Easier path finding for NPC´s.
Better ways of finding lord X(who is between town A and town B)
Historical accuracy.
Easier to ambush parties, when you know they are following the road.


Reasons not for Roads:
Too hard to implement.

What do you guy´s and girls think?

Why are there no roads in calradia?
 
My bets as to why there are no roads are
A). The map is WIP
B). They want the map to be scenic and beautiful and feel that crisscrossing it with roads would make it less aesthetic.

As a gameplay function, I don't see roads as hugely necessary. The AI will always take the most direct path between locations anyway and the player can't really get lost either, not with the map.

Having paved roads between cities would make it easier to predict the routes of caravans and lords, but I don't think they're gonna go through the trouble of scripting alternating speeds based on terrain. For one it would lead to everyone sticking to the roads, making them very crowded. Bandits living in the woods might suddenly have a hard time catching caravans.

That being said, I would like to have roads between the largest cities at the very least. It would be weird if the Calradian Empire didn't have a network of roads.
 
but I don't think they're gonna go through the trouble of scripting alternating speeds based on terrain

I dont think and hope, that you have the same speed across all surfaces.

Walking in the snow or sand should slow you down, while a plain grassland or roads should be the quickest.

When they do have seasons in Calradia, they Should also implement, muddy surfaces that slow you down in Dec-Mar, lakes that partially dry up in the summer and crossable lakes in the winter. 

Or the above would be very cool. :smile:
 
I agree with you that they should, I just don't find it likely that they will. :grin:

It's a lot of work and difficult to balance so that the effects are felt but don't impede any nation in particular. For example it would be a huge disadvantage for Sturgia if travelling there in winter was super slow. Similarly it would give plains people like the Khuzaits a maybe unfair edge in that they could strike very quickly on the edges of the plains but their opponents would be much slower across mountains and forests in responding to the attacks.

But, as said, I agree with you that seasons and terrain should play a big role. In the north rivers could freeze in the winter, making them crossable at any point, while rivers in the south would flood and become impossible to ford. Similarly, high mountain passes would become impassable in winter due to snowfall.
Forests and swamps should impede cavalry maneuvers while desert conditions would increase consumption of water (this would of course require adding water as a consumable resource).
 
Oxtocoatl said:
The AI will always take the most direct path between locations anyway and the player can't really get lost either, not with the map.

The AI will far too frequently NOT take a direct route between two locations.  I'm constantly annoyed, both in original M&B and in Warband, by the path-finding algorithm choosing to head directly toward the nearest road, even if it goes off in some other direction.  I've OFTEN seen my party head 120 degrees out of the way (or even 180 degrees, briefly) when it's in the vicinity of one of the vaguely visible paths on the map.  The real killer is the "hidden" roads that very obviously affect pathfinding, but aren't plainly visible.

In one case, I was trying to get my party to a town on the opposite side of a road, and clicked on the town, which caused the party to head directly to the road, then take a 90 degree turn and head off on it, gradually getting further from the town.  I clicked on the town again, and the party did a 180 degree turn, heading off down the road in the opposite direction 90 degree from where it was supposed to be heading, until it was well past the closest point to the town and still going, getting progressively further away.  Clicking the town again caused yet another 180, and so on.  Eventually I tied of the stupidity and clicked a point next to the party JUST off the road, which caused the party to exit the road and start behaving rationally again.

If there's a road anywhere within about a 1-2 second's march away, the party will often head toward the road, even if it's a full 180 degrees in the wrong direction, before turning around again and heading the right way.  I've tried running from enemy parties far larger than my own, and been stopped by a road, which in one particularly galling case caused my troops to turn around and head directly back toward the pursuers.  Party caught and annihilated, rage quit.  I'm not going to suffer the in-game consequences for a poor programming issue, not my own fault.

The idea of roads is good, the implementation so far has been absolutely terrible.

Note that roads were historically built and maintained by Rome, but quickly fell into disrepair in most places after Rome's collapse.  The best roads you would likely find in a medieval setting would be dirt paths with a few modest improvements, possibly earth embankments and ramps or crude stone/wooden bridges at streams, gullies, fords, and other trouble spots.  Paved roads, outside of a few flagstones laid on some major roads between urban centers and their nearby outlying towns or ports, didn't exist historically in most of the world at that time.
 
I guess an issue with roads is how they would factor into the battle maps. As terrain is randomised, roads might not work well on maps with lots of hills, mountains, trees or rivers.
 
Oxtocoatl said:
Having paved roads between cities would make it easier to predict the routes of caravans and lords, but I don't think they're gonna go through the trouble of scripting alternating speeds based on terrain. For one it would lead to everyone sticking to the roads, making them very crowded. Bandits living in the woods might suddenly have a hard time catching caravans.

There are already different speeds for different terrain types in warband and the relevant script is about 10 lines long. I'd be shocked if it wasn't in bannerlord.

Having roads be relatively crowded would prevent the ridiculously uniform spread of parties across the whole map. It would also make allied lords a lot easier to find and give a reason for there to be bandits between the roads rather than literally everywhere.
 
Hannibal Barca said:
Reasons for Roads:
Historical accuracy.
Rhade said:
1. Go buy 3 big boomboxes from the pawn shop.
2. Go to Wal-Mart, pick up like 22 D batteries because those *****es eat batteries pretty hard.
3. While at Wal-Mart, pick up some candles and some hay.
4. Go to the local farmer's market and buy some horse ****.
5. Place the boomboxes in the major rooms of your house, IE the computer room, your bedroom and the kitchen.
6. Find some random gregorian chant music (Here you go.) and burn it to cassette tapes (CD's would further ruin your immersion).
7. Play the music, turn it up as loud as possible.
8. Candles, you know, for ambiance and ****.
9. Place the hay all over your bedroom floor so you can pretend you're a ruffian sleeping in a barn whose parents were killed so long ago, yet you thirst for revenge. Sound familiar?
10. Spread horse **** throughout the house, especially in the computer room so you can really get a solid feeling for what a knight may have spent the day smelling.
11. When you die, never respawn. Every time you buy a game, you only get one life and after you die, you must uninstall the game. Respawning didn't happen in real life, why would you break your immersion for something so trivial?





























12. Consider going outside you **** nerd.

gf
 
Roads would be brilliant. If movement speed is very slow outside roads, it would make strategic fortifications actually strategic.
Even with slow movement speed roads might not be enough to make castles truly important though. But if roads are what transports supplies to your party, it would be important to keep road under control. And that means you could not just leave castles in your rear.

Roads and supplies and attrition are needed for Bannerlord imo. Sure you can make great game without them, but without them there is so much less strategy and realism. In Warband castles were quite useless.
 
Oxtocoatl said:
I don't think they're gonna go through the trouble of scripting alternating speeds based on terrain.

But they already have that in warband???  Travelling in the sand has an effect on your movement speed compared to travelling on the plains, same with forests and other terrain features??  It even goes into more depth with having a greater travelling speed based on the number of horses in your inventory.

They have even mentioned terrain modifiers in bannerlord dev blogs, will find it for reference.

Here is the dev blog "https://www.taleworlds.com/en/Games/Bannerlord/Blog/65" and the quote near the bottom
Designating areas of the campaign map with different terrain types allows us to do more than just match battle scenes to parts of the map, it also allows us to control AI behaviour (for example, limiting the areas where certain bandit parties can roam) and affect party modifiers (such as movement speed). We think that modders will find these terrain types to be quite useful as they can be used in a number of inventive ways.

Hope this information helps  :smile:  Unfortuunately, we as consumer's won't really know untill it's in our hands and we can test all of this out.

---------------

To the OP.

Roads wouuld be fairly useful for main cities being linked. I could see it adding more depth to the system and allow for more systemic gameplay and strategic decisions.

Instead of having them littered over the whole map, maybe some more developed empires (like the empire!) could use roads, and other's have faint dirt tracks.
These could even go through forests as to allow bandits to have a chance of ambush
 
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