Rifle Accuracy

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and in the last movie (can't remember what its called), which takes place in India, he becomes a brigadier

and what about Davy Crockett?  or Daniel Boone?  Kit Carson?  sure they didn't live in europe, but you could still add them to the game.

i also like to equip all my companions with rifles, kind of like an elite sharpshooter squad

SovietSoldier said:
Venitius said:
He rose from the ranks through. It was very rare for officers to rise from the ranks. Most of them purchased their commission.

and how many of the companions in the game are officers?  in fact, i specifically remember a certain companion named Bunduk who actually hates officers. 
 
my point was that you don't need to be an officer to be a hero.  and the whole point of the game is to be able to customize the game to how i want to play it.  if i want to have all my companions in their skivvies running around with butcher knives, i should be able to do so.  if i want all melee cavalry, then fine.  and if i want to be able to use rifles without them becoming inaccurate after firearms prof 300, then why not? 

riflemen were an important part of any army, and any commander who ignored them suffer greatly.  so i don't see the issue with us having super-accurate infantry, so long as it takes longer for them to  reload, and are vulnerable to cavalry and bayonet charges.
 
I do agree with you on that, but there's a bug in M&B that doesn't allow the player use the weapon as effectively as NPCs, and I've no idea how to change this.
 
HunterAlpha1 said:
if i am correct, all the dev team needs to do is reduce the accuracy of the aforementioned weapons to 99 to fix this problem.

you could give it a try, if it doesnt work then i am wrong, and i will willingly admit it.
 
In my experience with firearms an accuracy value of 0 or 99 has the same effect of determining accuracy based purely upon your proficiency level.  1-98 forces the weapon to be inaccurate to the corresponding degree.

The main problem I had with firearms was accuracy being tied directly to the damage value (this is apparently hard coded into the game and I have no idea why).  For any damage value over 100 there is a severe handicap on accuracy.  I tried reducing weapon damage and increasing the damage bonus on ammunition but that doesn't work for firearms.  So the only way around the accuracy handicap is to increase the accuracy beyond 99.  But as we all know going beyond 99 causes a sort of inaccuracy transverse if your proficiency level is high enough (~350). 

The solution I went with for Rise of Nationalism was to reduce the damage value of the muskets and rifles to 100, they still one shot most people, and the accuracy is much more manageable.

Another problem I had was troops firing at targets all the way across the map (we can tell our troops to hold fire but the AI can't).  I found that troop proficiency has very little if nothing to do with determining the range at which the AI will start firing, but rather it is a combination of weapon accuracy, damage and projectile speed that the AI uses.  In Rise of Nationalism I am using 100 damage, 55 accuracy and 250 projectile speed.  That seems to keep the troops from opening fire before the enemy is within 100m-150m (effective musket range).  And to ensure that they hit targets consistently at 50m I had to double the troops weapon proficiency.  For example a recruit has proficiencies around 70-80 so their firearm proficiency would be 140-160.
 
So your saying that within the current RoR, since the damage values are high on the muskets/rifles, it decreases the accuracy?

In the same vein since the accuracy is at 100 on a few of the rifles, it causes an aiming error after a certain point.  This I have noticed, when I have reached roughly 250-275 firearms I believe, a Flintlock Rifle with dam 225, acc 100 will move the aiming reticules past their own points. 

Also I notice that even thought the rifle and musket are supposed the same accuracy (ie. 100), why is the rifle actually more accurate?

(I have seen the varying reticle sizes this is a fact at least on my version.)

So to list our problems, we need to solve the aiming reticule issue, as well as AI firing issues, and some accuracy and damage issues.

(Sry to play catch up.)

bjorne. said:
There is no Jeager rifle...

But. Hmm... If I make 99 to the highest accuracy. Then will the rifle not be a sure hit even with pretty low training.
So I donno I actually like the fact that once you get better you are going to need less acurate troops. Like a hero style or officer style. I mean how many heros/officers do you see with rifles?

I did have some insight on a Jager here.  Thufir also has a nice starting model in his mod, that you could check out.
 
Some historical information mixed with what the guys developing The Rights of Man for Empire Total War added to their game.

An aimed musket firing a ball between .6 and .8 inches in diameter can be effective (causing a casualty at least once every 100 shots) and lethal against a mass formation at well over 100 yards (although more like 50 - 70 yards if firing at a single man). In the 18th century, however, very few soldiers were taught the fundamentals of aimed fire -- in fact, due to the unreliability of their weapons, they often closed their eyes and turned their faces away before firing (Chandler notes that most soldiers might fire as few as 2 rounds a year in practice). Line infantry was instead taught to reload quickly, mechanically repeating their tasks even when deafened by the crash of musketry, boom of artillery, and exposed to a hail of lethal lead and iron. In these terrifying conditions, 4 un-aimed shots a minute was considered a very good rate of fire.

In fact, while doctrine might call for an initial volley at under 100 yards, it was not unusual even for well disciplined troops to fire much earlier than that -- sometimes beyond 200 yards. At this range, the fire was ineffective.

What about the "company sized target" studies? You may have read one of the "fire a volley and count the holes" studies. They have several inherent problems: first, they were not conducted in battle conditions where an actual target was likely obscured by thick, drifting smoke and where the howl of cannon balls and the crushing sense of ones own mortality were likely to significantly reduce hits -- and the combat stress would only increase as a battle continued. While well-trained veterans would be more resistant, their efficiency would ultimately be severely impacted as well. Second, when under persistent and deadly fire, the men in the following ranks will make themselves as small as possible behind the men in the front rank -- this will leave a surprising amount of 'white space' in a formation where a ball could travel without contact. Third, anywhere from 10 to 15% of hits would be grazing or flesh wound hits that would not incapacitate a soldier, and might not even be noticed in the heat of battle (This, by the way is modeled in the this mod: 83% of musket and cannister hits and 70% of carbine and pistol hits will incapacitate). Fourth, some of the targets used in studies were too large -- as large as 3 yards high. These "studies" simply do not provide an accurate measure of musket lethality in battle conditions. So what would be a more appropriate hit ratio? One figure from the battle of Vitoria is that the British, who had notoriously good fire discipline, fired almost 500 rounds of musketry for each French casualty (note that the term 'casualty' generally refers to any soldier killed or requiring any medical aid, including a band-aid on his booboo).

You will see these considerations reflected in the following ways:

Line Infantry will fire at 90 yards, their approximate effective range against a mass target. At this range, each volley will cause a few casualties. At maximum range, line infantry may engage for some minutes before causing significant attrition. At shorter ranges, however, a volley may be very lethal, and several effective volley is likely to rout poor quality troops, or weaken better trained troops sufficiently for a double-quick bayonet charge to finish the job.

Lesser-disciplined troops, such as Urban Militia and Substandard Line troops, will open fire at 105 yards. At this range, however, they will do very few casualties. At closer ranges, they will shot-for-shot cause about as many casualties as line infantry, however the better training of line infantry, especially line infantry with advanced firing evolutions, will quickly overwhelm in sheer volume of musketry.

Well trained troops, such as light infantry and other musket-armed skirmishers, will open fire at about 130 yards. At this range, they can still cause significant casualties, and this will increase quickly as the soldiers close. They are most effective when kept at range, and engage line infantry from the flanks. They do not have access to 'rank fire', which means that, at shorter ranges, the volume of fire of line infantry will overwhelm them. If I had my druthers, it would be possible to switch light infantry regiments from a true 'skirmishing' doctrine (which is not represented in game) to 'line' doctrine, while on the field of battle. One would allow them to skirmish effectively, while the other would allow them to 'hold the line' and make use of evolutions such as rank fire. This would be a more accurate representation of their actual usage on the field of battle, but does not appear to be possible (at least to my standard) within this engine.

Though from what I've gather, Age of Blackpowder doesn't stick to historical realism like the guys at TROM do, it's still something to consider about ranges in which to engage enemy forces with muskets and when they're fire begins to become effective.
 
It's annoying i just finished a battle, i shot at a group of three horsemen with my light flintlock musket, it didn't touch them or their horses. Then one of them yanked out a flintlock pistol and 1-hitted me, I was on foot.
It's annoying
:cry: :cry:
 
Venitius said:
I prefer to use pistols over longarms.
I prefer AK 74 over muskets, but I can't have it so I must settle with balansed ligth musket (the fastest non-cabine gun in the mod).
BTW!
tell me, em I oly one that has the can't shoot downhill and from enywhere else but from enfront -syndrome, also known as F.U.C.K.T?
 
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