Rhodok Tactics

[mrdang]

my party of companions and sharpshooters (90 total) vs. 333 mounted Khergits. i kicked up my battle size to 200.

i hate when khergits line up. it takes away so much from their potential to confuse their opponents. needless to say, the sharpshooters scored 100 kills by the time the khergits started a charge

隐藏

the battle was fairly consistent after the charge though, only 9 total wounded for my side by the end (up from 5). i was knocked out early when i ran into a tree x_x but the teal text of death continued. for certain, if the khergits had only charged from the beginning, they'd get plenty of lance kills

my tactics for this battle

• archers: hold position wherever you feel comfortable--i prefer midway down the field where they can see the most. stand closer x1. this gives each of them enough space for a clear shot and keeps them close enough to form a wall. if the line is stretched too thin however, you wont immobilize heavier cavalry, so adjust accordingly with more F2-F4 for other factions.
• since there's only one control group for sharpshooters, i suggest using the 'nearby soldiers' button to pull some out of the makeshift infantry wall to act as full-time crossbowmen
• again, a wall is a wall is a wall, so don't worry about your position too much. just make sure you have a clear shot (not behind a hill), and only bother to take advantage of terrain if it's convenient. trees block the view for a few, but they're great for stopping horses--especially your own x_x i used a spot with 3 thick trees around

i can't completely conclude their effectiveness vs. khergits yet, but i will say that if they are that devastating to an all mounted army, then they'll easily wipe out swadians and vaegirs. sarranids as well, but make sure you handle the mamlukes by either isolating them or luring them to collide into your infantry wall. swadian crossbowmen may score a few headshots here and there, but overall don't stand a chance against elite tier sharpshooters.

ill try it against nords once we're at war again, but i surmise that it won't be as pretty :\

edit:
okay it's confirmed, sharpshooters got it down even with enemy charge:

i just took the same army from before (now 75) against 200+ khergits.

隐藏

after a few milestone # of kills, i had them spread out a little more. but otherwise, i kept them in the same spot.

 

[Immoral]

my party of companions and sharpshooters (90 total) vs. 333 mounted Khergits. i kicked up my battle size to 200.

i hate when khergits line up. it takes away so much from their potential to confuse their opponents. needless to say, the sharpshooters scored 100 kills by the time the khergits started a charge

隐藏

the battle was fairly consistent after the charge though, only 9 total wounded for my side by the end (up from 5). i was knocked out early when i ran into a tree x_x but the teal text of death continued. for certain, if the khergits had only charged from the beginning, they'd get plenty of lance kills

my tactics for this battle

• archers: hold position wherever you feel comfortable--i prefer midway down the field where they can see the most. stand closer x1. this gives each of them enough space for a clear shot and keeps them close enough to form a wall. if the line is stretched too thin however, you wont immobilize heavier cavalry, so adjust accordingly with more F2-F4 for other factions.
• since there's only one control group for sharpshooters, i suggest using the 'nearby soldiers' button to pull some out of the makeshift infantry wall to act as full-time crossbowmen
• again, a wall is a wall is a wall, so don't worry about your position too much. just make sure you have a clear shot (not behind a hill), and only bother to take advantage of terrain if it's convenient. trees block the view for a few, but they're great for stopping horses--especially your own x_x i used a spot with 3 thick trees around

i can't completely conclude their effectiveness vs. khergits yet, but i will say that if they are that devastating to an all mounted army, then they'll easily wipe out swadians and vaegirs. sarranids as well, but make sure you handle the mamlukes by either isolating them or luring them to collide into your infantry wall. swadian crossbowmen may score a few headshots here and there, but overall don't stand a chance against elite tier sharpshooters.

ill try it against nords once we're at war again, but i surmise that it won't be as pretty :\

edit:
okay it's confirmed, sharpshooters got it down even with enemy charge:

i just took the same army from before (now 75) against 200+ khergits.

隐藏

after a few milestone # of kills, i had them spread out a little more. but otherwise, i kept them in the same spot.

Do you have a problem with your troops lining up the wrong way when you hit hold position? When I click it since last patch they ling up almost vertically to the enemy army.

 

[kweassa]

Just wondering if youve tried pure sharpshooter armies?

Ive been playing Nords for a long, long time and want to try Rhodoks, but want to move away from pure infantry, as Ive used pure Huscarl for a long time as well. I was thinking it would work as Sharpshooters are almost the equivalent of Nord Veterans in melee, if less well armored.

I've dabbled with the Rhodoks quite extensively. An all-sharpshooter army is quite capable in many situations, and capable of holding off cavalry as well, surprisingly.

Against poor or lightly-armoured troops it's shishkebab massacre. Against mid-tier troops they can also hold their own, so it'd be safe to assume the SS are more of 'multi-use medium infantry' rather than a pure ranged/archer class.

Against cavalry, packing the SS in a tight formation and ordering them to cease fire makes them stand firmly with their board shields, and as long as you can stop the first few cavalry men the rest are also stopped. Without the mass of the horse throwing troops to the ground, a stopped cavalry is a dead cavalry no matter how well armed. If you can arm yourself with a powerful weapon to take out the few cavalry that breaks through the line, the holes in the line will soon mend itself and the cavalry will be taken care of.

Now, the real problem for a SS army is not cavalry, but rather, Nords.

[Slow rate of fire] meets [nordic shields] + [atheltics] + [superior melee combat] = FAIL

If once the horse is stopped the riders have limited movement and their melee combat is severely hampered, so they aren't much of a threat - which is why it's possible to fight off cavalry with SS. However, things are different with Nord warriors and huscarls - they close in very fast, well protected and heavily armed, and then just smash through your lines. The SS just can't stand against anything tougher than a Nord footman or trained footman.

So, with a SS army, your worst enemies are the Nords. The rest, can be managed albeit with differing levels of casualties.

 

[anfiach]

Just took a Sarrainid castle with 66 Rhodok troops. Then was swiftly disappointed when I realized settings were at easy and we only faced 100 enemy troops.

 

[Wu Wei]

i play as one of those overpowered horse archers which is probably what makes using rhodoks easier. a sword-wielding, wedding dress-wearing horse archer 

To be quite honest, this changes things a great deal. Typical Rhodok player usually plays on foot.
When you play as horse archer, you can single-handedly kill many enemy troops you would not be able on foot, or would but with great risk. Not only that, but you running around as horse archer changes makes AI run/move after you, especially cavalry. I don't know you playstyle, so I'm speaking in general. If you're riding around and AI chasing you, this means sharpshooters are shooting enemy in the back, or only have to deal with half of enemy troops (the other half is chasing you).

All this might give wrong impression about real capability of Rhodok troops, when player plays as a Rhodok himself and not as Khergit.

But still it's nice to read tips here, and, shouldn't you be playing with that two handed scimitar (forgot the name) or Shortened military scythe, which resemble Katana the most? Considering the character name you use I like the outfit as well, is that a mod or your own cosmetic change? I dislike wedding dresses in general, but on these pictures it really looks cool, and goes with the theme of Kiddo.

 

[laheja]

Without horse i imagine it would be quite difficult to give proper orders as you don't know layout of the map so well.
Luckily in every tenth battle u start in highgrounds and then don't have problem commanding troops while on foot but otherwise, horse is essential to commander.

And do we see nords or rhodoks (infantry factions) lead by noble on foot No we don't, so why shouldn't player use horse...

 

[mrdang]

To be quite honest, this changes things a great deal. Typical Rhodok player usually plays on foot.
When you play as horse archer, you can single-handedly kill many enemy troops you would not be able on foot, or would but with great risk. Not only that, but you running around as horse archer changes makes AI run/move after you, especially cavalry. I don't know you playstyle, so I'm speaking in general. If you're riding around and AI chasing you, this means sharpshooters are shooting enemy in the back, or only have to deal with half of enemy troops (the other half is chasing you).

All this might give wrong impression about real capability of Rhodok troops, when player plays as a Rhodok himself and not as Khergit.

im no purist. turns out beatrix kiddo is actually scarier and more accurate on foot. she wields a balanced strange sword, swinging the fastest 2-hander in the game :O would be even deadlier with the strange great sword  i come from a background of playing as infantry so it's all the same level of killing on my end--only a difference of how.

only nord lords walk anyway 

 

[Noapte]

Good info here.

Thanks for trying that out bigtoebubby.

I think I'm going to give Rhodoks a roll as my current game is Fubar and I really like the Rhodok roster. Personally I don't think Nords will be that much of a problem, but a problem nontheless. The AI very, very rarely has any Huscarls in their ranks. Ill plan on using my companions as Heavy Cav when the enemy starts to close, as a distraction while I give the old holdfire command and have the SS charge in (with me as I prefer to fight on foot).

 

[reklem]

A little rewiev on the Rhodok troops...
Tribesmen - worst unit in the whole game, pitchfork + shield =disaster. The shield also breaks after like 3 arrows.
Spearmen - Pretty ****ty as well, spear + shield can't do anything when enemies are hugging them
Trained spearmen - Suddenly, the infantry turns good. A pike with no shield is effective since they can hit in not only one way, but they are still poorly armored
Veteran spearmen - Strangely, some of these leave the pikes at home and use shield + spiked staff. Now they start getting armor.
Sergeants - 

I try to train all troops to trained spearmen in the training fields before using them in battle, tribesmen and spearmen just die. Crossbowmen, on the other hand, are not so good at killing but if you keep them away from melee and especially cavalry they will quickly level up to veteran crossbowmen and finally, Sharpshooters! 

 

[Osium]

Rhodoks are borderline OP'd with the way the AI behaves in combat.

Get a good sized force of Sharpshooters. Run about 1/3rd of the way into the map, find a good position to setup a crossbow overwatch.

If you are using companions as your personal cavalry force, you have two options. Option one, release them to attack immediately and they will butcher the other side while it marches towards you pretty much ignoring the cavalry. Option two, recommended against forces with lots of cavalry, set them to follow and head to your left wing. Set them opposite the enemy cavalry formation that will inevitably attempt to flank your left side and let them loose.

Take your infantry, stack them deep and set them to anchor that left flank.

^ = Cavalry
I = Infantry
> = Archers

Set them up like this.

^^^
        IIII
        IIII  >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 

Your infantry screens against a cavalry charge, your sharpshooters are allowed to just decimate the enemy formation as it slowly marches towards you. Your cavalry can be used immediately to just attack in a general manner, or to attack directly into their cavalry forces.

I play with customized party templates set to give significant reinforcements of top tier troops, including Swadian Knights, Man at Arms, Mamelukes and Vaegir Knights. It is not unheard of for the enemy force to be nearly 50% mounted troops and in the case of Swadians and Vaegirs supported by as much as 20% sharpshooters and marksmen.

The only cavalry I use are my companions who are level 18-23 at the moment. I highly recommend hafted blades for them, since they will swing them and just wreck untold havoc with a 150ish reach swing able cutting weapon on a warhorse.

Playing with my tweaked parties, I actually lose troops. Most losses tend to be amongst my infantry fodder, and the enemy just gets destroyed by my sharpshooter line that rakes their slowly advancing line with fire.

If the AI was more flexible, I'd simply shift to a 50/50 split of archers/infantry and order the archers and infantry to hold one line and then advance the archers 10 paces. Let them fire until the enemy is  dangerously close and then order the infantry to charge. The infantry absorbs the cavalry charge while the archers pick anyone who gets through off.

So far the only force that actually frightens this firing line is a Sarranid force consisting of 50% or so mamelukes. Then it's a crap shoot, but at least challenging ;p

 

[mrdang]

i have a new tip. when engaging in battles with allies and you're not the marshal, keep your troops together with your allies. i thought my near invincible squad of rhodoks could take on all the vaegir armies before my allies would charge out of their formation, but it ended in disaster since i could not receive reinforcements until my ally lost a few more :\

so in the second round, i kept my men behind my ally's, but both sides were endlessly posturing themselves. their line of men actually turned as they advanced paces. it reminded me of square dancing--and by the time of charge, both AI armies had swapped sides of the map x_x

this gave me a plan. now, whenever i have an ally in battle, i keep them together for the most part, but then i stay back a little bit so i could hit the enemy from another side--like a sandwich.

 

[laheja]

Landscape plays hugely to your advantage or disadvantage as well.
For example river might be better against blocking cavalry attack then hill. AI has poor knowledge of rivers they just crash into it and then slow down while player might jump over it or at least most way over. Really has anyone ever seen AI horse jump???
But hill on the other hand might prove less slowdown(depends on size) or cavalry zigzag to not lose so much speed but they are incapable of doing this in river they just charge against you even crossing the widest loop in their stupidity.

 

[Mikan]

Osium: Your infantry should be to the right of your marksmen. If you have them on the left, you'll be shooting into their shields. Have them on the right and the enemy will expose their flanks, which won't be concealed by a shield.

 

[Osium]

If I have them on the right, they will not be between the inevitable cavalry charge at my archers.

Cavalry ALWAYS forms on the right side of the enemy line, to charge into your left flank.

By moving the infantry to the right side, whom exactly are they going to fight? The sharpshooters make swiss cheese out of the enemy foot soldiers.  They are on the left side specifically because the cavalry of the opposition will always move to your left flank and charge you. You are putting them there to intercept that charge, break it up and kill it.

 

[Mikan]

That's a good point.

And the enemy circle your left flank too.


Against foes that charge head on (mainly Sea Raiders) I'd still go with infantry on the right (since the Raiders will kite towards them).

Against other Lords, I'm doing what you do now.


Well actually I'm trying a full Crossbowman army (since the pikes aren't that effective). The lowest tier crossbowmen I use as infantry. Getting much better results as their picks and swords are actually able to zerg Mameluke (Pikes just do minimal stub damage to them ;- .

 

[dhowlett]

I found this guide very hard to read to be honest. First you told me that cavalry are obsolite in seiges when infact they are some of the best units to take as knights and mumalukes are second only to husculars when on foot. Then your telling me to charge my spears while telling them to keep grouping and telling my archers to stop half way. The bit i got onto reading but stoped seemed as if you were also telling me to suside my companions into the biggest threat to slow them down.

Might i point out the biggest strength the rodoks have is their shields and crossbow men. Both of which have been nutralised in these tactics.

-For starters the shields soak up almost all ranged fire so let them come to you so you get extra time shooting at them

- Secondly puting your crossbow men behind you half way up the battle field is useless. Not only are they at long range but are trying to fire over your men, which they wont do, and when they do get them over they will hit a shield.

The best way to fight with rodoks is to find any land which is either flat or gives you an elevation allowing you to see for further. That way the rhodoks crosbowmen can shoot for as long as possible and dont have hills blocking their LOS.

Then march your infantry off to the right and a little forward. when the enermy is almost paralel to your infantry send the charge order. They will intersept the enermy just before they reach the archers. The archers are then firing point blank range into the unprotected flanks of the enermy.

Of course there needs to be some variation, sometimes the enermy will already be targeting the infantry and be running straight at them. If this is the case you need to move your infanrtry more off to the right and bring the crossbow men round to the left and forward a bit so tehy attack the back/flank once the infantry engades.

As for horses, tehy arnt a problem because they will always charge ahead of infantry and still fall into this trap and be whiped out by the time the infantry arives.


:EDIT:

Ill draw a picture for you:


--------------------------[ENERMY]------------------------
---------------------------------------------------------
----------------------------------------------[Infantry]
-------------------------------[Player/companions]-
------[X-bows]----------------------------------------


You sound the charge of infantry and they will charge straight into the flanks of the enermy gaining agro. The xbows will then have exposed flanks and the player/companions are there to pick up straglers that dont get agroed but be careful not to get infront of the xbows and block their shots. Usualy i will just charge straight up with the infantry my self as the enermys rarely run up to the xbows and if a few go they usualy never make it all the way or die quickly to the superior shareshooter picks and hammers anyway.

 

[Mikan]

That's a bit like what I do. The only difference is that I move the crossbowmen behind the infantry instead of sending the infantry to charge. Charging with Rhodok infantry is the fastest way to get them killed.

Ideally you want them to hold ground (with stand closer x5) so that they actually use the range of their pikes. The front men will block with their shields whilst the rows of infantry behind will stab with their pikes. When the enemy withdraws a little, the front men will stab them some more. If you have the infantry charge then they'll all go up close range and will just stub them with their spears. Keep them held in position so they do maximum damage!


Really I think the Pike should have a 'couch' feature. Similar to the horse couch but only active when the spearmen are standing still. That way a cavalry charge will crumble to the superior range of the pike (instead of the cavalry charge somehow couching the infantry).

 

[dhowlett]

Ah i should probably point out my infantry currently only consists of companions with 2handed axes as i have turned off companion relations.

I would imagin it would work better as you say, having them hold formation but I would then need to get the agro on them, so i may have to do that my self by running around infront of the enermy.

 

[mrdang]

I found this guide very hard to read to be honest. First you told me that cavalry are obsolite in seiges when infact they are some of the best units to take as knights and mumalukes are second only to husculars when on foot.

they are obsolete compared to what dedicated infantry can do. second to more than just huscarls.

Then your telling me to charge my spears while telling them to keep grouping and telling my archers to stop half way.

infantry charge is does not pickup the same speed as a cavalry charge, so 'charge' just means meet them before they meet you. dunno what you were imagining. the hold feature lets them regroup so your troops are not scattered and isolated.

The bit i got onto reading but stoped seemed as if you were also telling me to suside my companions into the biggest threat to slow them down.

it's not suicide. theyre charging when your infantry are about to engage. if your companions arent on heavy chargers, they will not accomplish this.

Might i point out the biggest strength the rodoks have is their shields and crossbow men. Both of which have been nutralised in these tactics.

-For starters the shields soak up almost all ranged fire so let them come to you so you get extra time shooting at them

rhodok and nord lords are infamous for not budging off their locations. using a consistent strategy of always advancing will reduce complication of things.

what most people fear is that walking forward against enemy arrow fire will kill all your troops. quite the contrary for old board shields--and you won't believe it until you try it yourself. and that's pretty much the message im trying to get across--that you don't need to sit on top of a hill and wait for attackers to approach, just dont be a whimp and charge with rhodoks.

- Secondly puting your crossbow men behind you half way up the battle field is useless. Not only are they at long range but are trying to fire over your men, which they wont do, and when they do get them over they will hit a shield.

The best way to fight with rodoks is to find any land which is either flat or gives you an elevation allowing you to see for further. That way the rhodoks crosbowmen can shoot for as long as possible and dont have hills blocking their LOS.

Then march your infantry off to the right and a little forward. when the enermy is almost paralel to your infantry send the charge order. They will intersept the enermy just before they reach the archers. The archers are then firing point blank range into the unprotected flanks of the enermy.

i havent edited my original tactics for vaegirs/swadians/sarranids yet, but nowdays i use the same across the board, crossbowmen walking behind until the engagement, then flank to the left and farther forward to make a triangle

this is a thread for practical tactics to use with the rhodoks. it's to debunk the outdated and impractical methods of staying back and waiting and to proclaim that rhodoks are fully capable of meeting the enemy first.

 

[Mikan]

I don't believe they are capable of meeting the enemy.

Only when the enemy is heavily outnumbered (or if they have no shields) is this a viable strategy.

Half of Rhodok Infantry spawn with no shield but with a very long pike. What use is a very long pike if you tell your troops to cute to close quarters combat. As Bunduk says, Grunweld taught them how to stay heed and break a Swadian charge by holding their pikes firm. What he means is to stand your ground.

Rhodoks are best used by standing ground. That is what they are designed to do (long pikes, big shields, deadly shooters) and that is what they do best.

You will get better results by telling your crossbowmen to charge than telling your pikemen to charge, I give you that. Crossbows spawn with swords, picks, and spiked staves. Much better CQC weapons than the pike.


Keep your Infantry in formation. Don't let them break formation. Now if anyone wants to try Rhodok tactics against me in a multiplayer fight, bring it on (can you even command troops in multiplayer?).

You're so obsessed with change but remember: not all change is good change.