Rhade vs Leonidas Championship duel video
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TheRealLeonidas
My final words on the issue.
Rhade was making the request that the duel should be in the ring, and at first I agreed to it, but on reflection I later said no, lets fight in the open. Despite this well chronicled exchange about the nature of the final duel. John still chose to put us in there, for anyone who wants to read up on the discussion before the finals fight you can start here (http://forums.taleworlds.com/index.php/topic,151302.1110.html) and read through page 78,
it might also give you an understanding why I am frustrated about the Final being called to be in the ring at the last moment. It also explains why I Typed the "?" when John said the fight was going to be in the ring the day of the final when I entered the server. Rhade was also standing in the ring oddly enough when I got there. When I asked what we were going to do that day I asked because Rhade was sitting in the Ring. I came there thinking the fight was going to be in the open, but when I saw him just standing there, I asked. John then decided right there.
At the end of the day the tournament is over and Rhade is the winner I did the best I could given the situation I was put in, I just hope in the future tournaments are not run in this manner.
Rhade was making the request that the duel should be in the ring, and at first I agreed to it, but on reflection I later said no, lets fight in the open. Despite this well chronicled exchange about the nature of the final duel. John still chose to put us in there, for anyone who wants to read up on the discussion before the finals fight you can start here (http://forums.taleworlds.com/index.php/topic,151302.1110.html) and read through page 78,
it might also give you an understanding why I am frustrated about the Final being called to be in the ring at the last moment. It also explains why I Typed the "?" when John said the fight was going to be in the ring the day of the final when I entered the server. Rhade was also standing in the ring oddly enough when I got there. When I asked what we were going to do that day I asked because Rhade was sitting in the Ring. I came there thinking the fight was going to be in the open, but when I saw him just standing there, I asked. John then decided right there.
At the end of the day the tournament is over and Rhade is the winner I did the best I could given the situation I was put in, I just hope in the future tournaments are not run in this manner.
Good god. I really didn't want to have to say anything, but this has gone on far too long.
After reading through all this, it sounds like I'm some bad player who just got lucky the duel happened to be in my favor, instead of being the best duelist in NA like I feel like I've proven repeatedly since beta.
I didn't practice in the ring at all either. There was plenty of room for offense and for defense. If you don't believe me, watch the video again and see whether or not I was forced to hold W the whole time, if I chased the whole time, and if I ran into kickslashes multiple times because of this.
Leonidas: Don't bother to respond, because I'm not going to answer it. I fulfilled my obligation to you by meeting you to duel you, twice, and I did so. I refuse to argue with you until you can somehow gain "satisfaction" because you can either put your bruised pride to rest, or by you trying to secure yet another duel so you can have yet another chance. Frankly, I'm frustrated by the way you've handled this, I think it should have been over when it was over. Good players aren't only good because they're talented, practiced, or intelligent, they're good because they can adapt and overcome, but more importantly -- the best players are the best players because they win, and they become good at finding ways to do so in the circumstances given to them. I wasn't happy about some things about the duel either, but I adapted and adjusted as necessary on the fly.
This has put such a bad taste in my mouth; even if I win, I still lose, it seems.
After reading through all this, it sounds like I'm some bad player who just got lucky the duel happened to be in my favor, instead of being the best duelist in NA like I feel like I've proven repeatedly since beta.
I didn't practice in the ring at all either. There was plenty of room for offense and for defense. If you don't believe me, watch the video again and see whether or not I was forced to hold W the whole time, if I chased the whole time, and if I ran into kickslashes multiple times because of this.
Leonidas: Don't bother to respond, because I'm not going to answer it. I fulfilled my obligation to you by meeting you to duel you, twice, and I did so. I refuse to argue with you until you can somehow gain "satisfaction" because you can either put your bruised pride to rest, or by you trying to secure yet another duel so you can have yet another chance. Frankly, I'm frustrated by the way you've handled this, I think it should have been over when it was over. Good players aren't only good because they're talented, practiced, or intelligent, they're good because they can adapt and overcome, but more importantly -- the best players are the best players because they win, and they become good at finding ways to do so in the circumstances given to them. I wasn't happy about some things about the duel either, but I adapted and adjusted as necessary on the fly.
This has put such a bad taste in my mouth; even if I win, I still lose, it seems.
TheRealLeonidas
Rhade 说:
Bad Player and you don't belong in the same sentence. If my frustration with the match has made you upset then I am sorry. Anyway you slice it Rhade you fought bravely and you overcame a huge whole to win. In hind sight perhaps what I should have done was just not accept, but I just thought that this tourney had went on to long, it needed to end.
I hope you don't confuse my frustration with the venue of the final with my respect level or how I see your skill level. You inspired me to learn fastest, a mode I had never seriously played. You inspired me to get better as a player.
My honest question to you is if you felt the way I felt what you have done. I did my best to bottle it in that night. What would you have done in my shoes Rhade if you felt my frustration?
TheRealLeonidas 说:
Because this seems like an earnest question, I'll answer, but don't look to get me drawn into a long public exchange on the topic of the duel.
Simply put, I would have bottled that frustration and turned it into focus and drive to improve. I would have channeled the frustration into something that would help me -- I absolutely hate losing, but when I do lose, I don't show it, I just take that anger and frustration and use it to improve. Learn and grow from it, and instead of giving reasons why you lost, start making sure that in the future there will be no reasons.
"Victorious warriors win first and then go to war, while defeated warriors go to war first and then seek to win."
All this energy, angst and frustration could have been spent doing some serious training, and at least then you would have still had all the respect you started with, as well as having a positive return from all of it.
Ohh fun reading on the forums, this is why formal competitions can be good 
Can't watch the vids until later when I get home from work, but I can imagine how the fights went. Have enjoyed reading the thread much though.
First off, I think a mistake of warbands is having the swing speed toggle. I think it took me a while to understand that timing has the largest part in how you attack one another, and there is no way the devs could have known during development. So here you have this game that bases a lot on timing, with a switch to vary the timing at the drop of a hat.
I guess it is like why in CRPG you have to stick to the basics because you never quite know what speed a weapon is going to come at you. The same with going between fastest and medium. At a lower level it doesn't matter, but as you get more practiced, lots of things that you hard wire into your reaction set (at least for me) don't work out quite the way they should. I guess over time you can learn both, and learn to switch gears, but honestly the game should ship with a fixed swing speed, whether its fastest or med.
As to the video looking boring, I think that comes across in a lot of warband vids. It is just more intense to play it than to watch it, esp when its from 3rd person (is this one from fixed 1st person though?). Either way, when you play, your brain is always doing much more than just feint / swinging, it is evaluating current and future states and is much more active, leading to the feeling of intensity that isn't present in videos.
This is also the culmination of a really long ass tourney, it is going to have some competitive weight behind it, affecting how people play. In this situation risk taking is not much of an option, IMHO you are most likely going to stick to a safe playstyle rather than trying out things that might work because you have 20 ping instead of 50. I think that results in more boring looking fights, but the competitors are not playing to look good, but instead to win.
I haven't come up against bks a lot, but from what I know of the game their style is really optimized for playing battle. All the dueling tricks and even just playing defensively isn't going to be as effective as explosive offense. In battle the windows of opportunity for engaging in melee open and close quickly, and if you can control when you kill someone in that space of time alls the better for your team.
I think that a great sword back pedaling technique is probably the strongest melee style in terms of effectiveness. Great sword is way out of proportion to other weapons and kills all the time with 1 hit, has speed, a thrust, and range over most other weapons. Using the range well means back pedaling and keeping people away. Further, as I well know, when I'm chasing someone I make all sorts of mistakes like walking into kicks or just not being prepared when they turn on you and swing (even though I know it is coming at some point).
I think to play that style well takes some practice for sure, and it takes just as much activity to maintain that distance and control as it does to plow forward into the mix.
However, dueling against that style is frustrating and sometimes feels like it unnecessarily extends the length of duels. It could also be said that sometimes the fun of the game is the exchange of blows between people, and when you are constantly chasing someone instead of engaging in a melee fight it can get annoying.
When I run into that style I try chase people down since I tend to make a lot of mistakes chasing people down and find it as good practice to close up a weakness of mine. If I cared about the results though I would most likely just stand still and make them come to me. Then I would probably start back pedaling until they got aggressive enough to forget their game. I know people who backpedal with long weapons want you to be in that state of chasing after them and their entire game is centered around you running after them. In a competition with them the best thing to do is to not play their game, and make them play yours.
I don't really know anything about the whole ring selection thing, but I guess in this case it allowed rhade to pressure leo against the wall. Though again since leo went 4 - 0 (I gather from comments), rhade also had to adapt his play style midway through the fight until he found the trick of not coming at you too aggressively and most likely cutting off your areas of retreats, until he could safely put you into a pressure game he is comfortable with.
I would say for leo, the best coarse of action for you is to stay with your great sword, but now put yourself in situations where you can not back pedal and control distance. Fight in small rooms, the arena, or just when you are out in the open, stay close to someone. Perhaps try to learn your keep away range game without needing the whole arena, learn to stay JUST out of range rather than comfortably out of range when they are chasing you.
I say this to you since I've felt that you in particular have been on a quest to be a great player, and have achieved much in that regard, but it seems your pride is limiting your growth. Put the style down a moment, try a new one to fill in the gaps in your old one, then fold in what you have learned back into your old style, hopefully coming out with something stronger and more robust in the end.
When we compete, it is really about how we pick ourselves up off the floor and continue to grow, and I think when you start to understand that, you'll see that being a tenacious competitor is something a great many people admire.
Can't watch the vids until later when I get home from work, but I can imagine how the fights went. Have enjoyed reading the thread much though.First off, I think a mistake of warbands is having the swing speed toggle. I think it took me a while to understand that timing has the largest part in how you attack one another, and there is no way the devs could have known during development. So here you have this game that bases a lot on timing, with a switch to vary the timing at the drop of a hat.
I guess it is like why in CRPG you have to stick to the basics because you never quite know what speed a weapon is going to come at you. The same with going between fastest and medium. At a lower level it doesn't matter, but as you get more practiced, lots of things that you hard wire into your reaction set (at least for me) don't work out quite the way they should. I guess over time you can learn both, and learn to switch gears, but honestly the game should ship with a fixed swing speed, whether its fastest or med.
As to the video looking boring, I think that comes across in a lot of warband vids. It is just more intense to play it than to watch it, esp when its from 3rd person (is this one from fixed 1st person though?). Either way, when you play, your brain is always doing much more than just feint / swinging, it is evaluating current and future states and is much more active, leading to the feeling of intensity that isn't present in videos.
This is also the culmination of a really long ass tourney, it is going to have some competitive weight behind it, affecting how people play. In this situation risk taking is not much of an option, IMHO you are most likely going to stick to a safe playstyle rather than trying out things that might work because you have 20 ping instead of 50. I think that results in more boring looking fights, but the competitors are not playing to look good, but instead to win.
I haven't come up against bks a lot, but from what I know of the game their style is really optimized for playing battle. All the dueling tricks and even just playing defensively isn't going to be as effective as explosive offense. In battle the windows of opportunity for engaging in melee open and close quickly, and if you can control when you kill someone in that space of time alls the better for your team.
I think that a great sword back pedaling technique is probably the strongest melee style in terms of effectiveness. Great sword is way out of proportion to other weapons and kills all the time with 1 hit, has speed, a thrust, and range over most other weapons. Using the range well means back pedaling and keeping people away. Further, as I well know, when I'm chasing someone I make all sorts of mistakes like walking into kicks or just not being prepared when they turn on you and swing (even though I know it is coming at some point).
I think to play that style well takes some practice for sure, and it takes just as much activity to maintain that distance and control as it does to plow forward into the mix.
However, dueling against that style is frustrating and sometimes feels like it unnecessarily extends the length of duels. It could also be said that sometimes the fun of the game is the exchange of blows between people, and when you are constantly chasing someone instead of engaging in a melee fight it can get annoying.
When I run into that style I try chase people down since I tend to make a lot of mistakes chasing people down and find it as good practice to close up a weakness of mine. If I cared about the results though I would most likely just stand still and make them come to me. Then I would probably start back pedaling until they got aggressive enough to forget their game. I know people who backpedal with long weapons want you to be in that state of chasing after them and their entire game is centered around you running after them. In a competition with them the best thing to do is to not play their game, and make them play yours.
I don't really know anything about the whole ring selection thing, but I guess in this case it allowed rhade to pressure leo against the wall. Though again since leo went 4 - 0 (I gather from comments), rhade also had to adapt his play style midway through the fight until he found the trick of not coming at you too aggressively and most likely cutting off your areas of retreats, until he could safely put you into a pressure game he is comfortable with.
I would say for leo, the best coarse of action for you is to stay with your great sword, but now put yourself in situations where you can not back pedal and control distance. Fight in small rooms, the arena, or just when you are out in the open, stay close to someone. Perhaps try to learn your keep away range game without needing the whole arena, learn to stay JUST out of range rather than comfortably out of range when they are chasing you.
I say this to you since I've felt that you in particular have been on a quest to be a great player, and have achieved much in that regard, but it seems your pride is limiting your growth. Put the style down a moment, try a new one to fill in the gaps in your old one, then fold in what you have learned back into your old style, hopefully coming out with something stronger and more robust in the end.
When we compete, it is really about how we pick ourselves up off the floor and continue to grow, and I think when you start to understand that, you'll see that being a tenacious competitor is something a great many people admire.
TheRealLeonidas
Reapy 说:Ohh fun reading on the forums, this is why formal competitions can be good
First off, I think a mistake of warbands is having the swing speed toggle. I think it took me a while to understand that timing has the largest part in how you attack one another, and there is no way the devs could have known during development. So here you have this game that bases a lot on timing, with a switch to vary the timing at the drop of a hat.
I guess it is like why in CRPG you have to stick to the basics because you never quite know what speed a weapon is going to come at you. The same with going between fastest and medium. At a lower level it doesn't matter, but as you get more practiced, lots of things that you hard wire into your reaction set (at least for me) don't work out quite the way they should. I guess over time you can learn both, and learn to switch gears, but honestly the game should ship with a fixed swing speed, whether its fastest or med.
As to the video looking boring, I think that comes across in a lot of warband vids. It is just more intense to play it than to watch it, esp when its from 3rd person (is this one from fixed 1st person though?). Either way, when you play, your brain is always doing much more than just feint / swinging, it is evaluating current and future states and is much more active, leading to the feeling of intensity that isn't present in videos.
This is also the culmination of a really long ass tourney, it is going to have some competitive weight behind it, affecting how people play. In this situation risk taking is not much of an option, IMHO you are most likely going to stick to a safe playstyle rather than trying out things that might work because you have 20 ping instead of 50. I think that results in more boring looking fights, but the competitors are not playing to look good, but instead to win.
I haven't come up against bks a lot, but from what I know of the game their style is really optimized for playing battle. All the dueling tricks and even just playing defensively isn't going to be as effective as explosive offense. In battle the windows of opportunity for engaging in melee open and close quickly, and if you can control when you kill someone in that space of time alls the better for your team.
I think that a great sword back pedaling technique is probably the strongest melee style in terms of effectiveness. Great sword is way out of proportion to other weapons and kills all the time with 1 hit, has speed, a thrust, and range over most other weapons. Using the range well means back pedaling and keeping people away. Further, as I well know, when I'm chasing someone I make all sorts of mistakes like walking into kicks or just not being prepared when they turn on you and swing (even though I know it is coming at some point).
I think to play that style well takes some practice for sure, and it takes just as much activity to maintain that distance and control as it does to plow forward into the mix.
However, dueling against that style is frustrating and sometimes feels like it unnecessarily extends the length of duels. It could also be said that sometimes the fun of the game is the exchange of blows between people, and when you are constantly chasing someone instead of engaging in a melee fight it can get annoying.
When I run into that style I try chase people down since I tend to make a lot of mistakes chasing people down and find it as good practice to close up a weakness of mine. If I cared about the results though I would most likely just stand still and make them come to me. Then I would probably start back pedaling until they got aggressive enough to forget their game. I know people who backpedal with long weapons want you to be in that state of chasing after them and their entire game is centered around you running after them. In a competition with them the best thing to do is to not play their game, and make them play yours.
I don't really know anything about the whole ring selection thing, but I guess in this case it allowed rhade to pressure leo against the wall. Though again since leo went 4 - 0 (I gather from comments), rhade also had to adapt his play style midway through the fight until he found the trick of not coming at you too aggressively and most likely cutting off your areas of retreats, until he could safely put you into a pressure game he is comfortable with.
I would say for leo, the best coarse of action for you is to stay with your great sword, but now put yourself in situations where you can not back pedal and control distance. Fight in small rooms, the arena, or just when you are out in the open, stay close to someone. Perhaps try to learn your keep away range game without needing the whole arena, learn to stay JUST out of range rather than comfortably out of range when they are chasing you.
I say this to you since I've felt that you in particular have been on a quest to be a great player, and have achieved much in that regard, but it seems your pride is limiting your growth. Put the style down a moment, try a new one to fill in the gaps in your old one, then fold in what you have learned back into your old style, hopefully coming out with something stronger and more robust in the end.
When we compete, it is really about how we pick ourselves up off the floor and continue to grow, and I think when you start to understand that, you'll see that being a tenacious competitor is something a great many people admire.
After about a year of playing, I feel like I am still learning from you Reapy, your Infantry videos taught me the mechanics of the game. Your duels with Nieh made me want to get to that level. I will take your advice to heart, I think the biggest problem I had during the finals was being backed up against the wall. In the first 3 matches, I was able to effectively play the distance game although in a more limited sense. But once he started pinning me against the wall I lost control of the fight and never got it back. I would block a series of feints find myself against the wall and then try to get out of there, it kept leaving me open for attack. My biggest beef is that If knew that the fight was going to be in there, I would have learned to deal with that back to the wall situation, because I would have had all my training duels in there for prep. I actually love going blow for blow as well tight spaces don't bother me, its the walls that do. I will adapt my style to wall fighting with some thinking and practice, and I will improve that weakness that I now know I have. From watching the video, I think what I should have done perhaps is move away from the wall as he was closing, so that I never got cut off. But I will see when I begin practicing and playing again, enjoying my new born daughter to much at the moment.
JaimeLannist3r
TheRealLeonidas 说:
LOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLL
Sigging yourself, a new low.
JaimeLannist3r 说:
Nice way to make new friends.
No, he's sigging that silly comment of Leo, and laughing at it.Papa Lazarou 说:
Nothing wrong with that imo, many sigs are like that.
Kitten-mew!
Knight at Arms
HarkonHakoon 说:
You mean like DBD's where he takes a pretty reasonable statement by Rhade and adds a HERP and a DERP? xP
Kitten-mew! 说:
Hahaha... DBD is a very special person. Sure brought me much laughter in his recent activity in the GK thread...
Kitten-mew!
Knight at Arms
Macho man Randy Savage's pictures sadly were removed from peers' grasp. At least he found an acceptable facsimile.
HALP!! Leonidas is spamming my PM box with angry messages on how he is superior to Rhade and I'm just a troll.
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