revolting prisoners

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Homie

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Every once in a while, especially when you are carrying a lot of prisoners, there should be a chance of a prisoner revolt. They would be unarmed, or perhaps would just have hatchets and throwing rocks. They might surprise you at any time, or they might even spawn near you when you engage an enemy and start attacking you. they wouldn't be particularly strong because you surely took their weapons and armor away when you imprisoned them, but it would still add an interesting aspect to the game. It adds a bit of risk, and a chance that you might have to kill your prisoners if they get out of control.

That way it's not a 100% garuntee that you will be able to get all of your prisoners to town to sell to the slave trader.
 
None of my prisoners make it to slave-trader anyways... For reasons too evil to expose... (bwahahahahaha)

Good idea XD ...

Would it be possible to add torture chambers so you can 'torture' information such as 'secret forts' and 'locations' on map from your captured prisoners? So you can go there and kill their friends, family, and a bunch of random people just to be sure... ::D
 
I figured that that would be the point in the prisoner management skill. Maybe if you could *effectively* manage 5 for every skill point but you could temporarily hold more...and then there would be a chance for a revolt? Good idea.

EDIT: Homie - uh, torture people until they join you? I'm sure they'd make *real* loyal followers...
 
you could also perhaps torture prisoners until they agree to join you and fight for you. Just like your units have morale, your prisoners could have morale, and if it goes low enough, they could possibly be convinced to join your army.

It seems silly to me that you have to wait for 2 enemies to fight, and then kill the winner to get his prisoners in your army. There should be some way to defeat an enemy, take the enemy prisoner, and somehow convince them to join you. It might be hard, and unlikely to succeed, but it should be possible. It sucks having prisoners that you wish were in your army.
 
My idea for escaping prisoners and deserting companions is one that kinda changes the whole dynamic of the prisoner and leadership skills.

First of all, imagine that at the beginning, you could hire as many people as you want. (with restrictions on population of the area, money, supplies and such)
You may have 0 leadership and a massive army of 100, but because you don't have any leadership skills, you'll see your army deserting in the dozens if your morale goes down even in the slightest bit.

So if you start without any leadership, and hire a huge number of guys, they'll all bugger off as soon as you lose a battle (or a large number of men in a battle) or fail to keep them paid or fed.


Even with a leadership skill of 10, you'll still experience desertions seemingly at random. With leadership of 10, you might be able to manage a group of 100 without any desertions (or maybe the odd one), but once you increase that size to 200, the rate of desertions increases, until you find that at a huge number of troops, you'll lose many of them during the course of a single day.

Basically, the chance of a certain person deserting should be directly proportional to the number of people present in your party. Those of you who enjoy mathematics would recognise this relationship as a simple differential equation, whose form you often see in population numbers.

So what did that mean? Basically, we take our level 10 leadership guy again. He's just hired 300 soldiers. In the first day, he loses ****loads, simply because he can't control them all. In the second day, he loses a large amount, but not as much as before. He now has 200 men. Over the course of the next week he loses 100 of these 200 men, leaving him with only 100. But once he's down to these 100 loyal men, he experiences hardly any desertions.

This leadership could also take into account other factors. Like a knight would be more likely to desert than a pikeman, simply because he has a larger ego, and probably doesn't like the idea of being commanded by an equal. That way, one wouldn't be able to sustain a large army of pure knights. You'd either have a large army of peasants, or a small band of knights.
This soldier rank specific chance to desert could be dependant on your own level (or rank within the army). Everything else being equal, a knight is more likely to desert your army if you're level 1, than he is if you're level 23.


Ok. Now that i've explained the leadership thing in huge detail, i'll explain the prisoner thing using the same ideas.

Basically, you can hold an unlimited number of prisoners. (the only limit being the number you capture in battle)
However, unless your prisoner management is really high, you'll find that most of them manage to escape.

The chance of prisoner escaping could be dependant on a couple of things.
1. your prisoner management skill. The more you have, the higher the limit of prisoners you can have before they start escaping in large numbers.
2. Party size. More people means more people to watch over your prisoners. (hay, manhunters and slave drivers and such could count as 1.5 or 2 men for this situation) It doesn't make sense that one person, even with all the prisoner management skill in the world, can keep control of 20 prisoners all by himself.
 
Yeah you can ::P
Blindfold them, chain them to each other, and they wouldn't know how many people are guarding them ::D

I personally prefer current leadership system over yours Ingolifs though. (sorry ::*( ) For one, I don't really wouldn't really make sense to have a level 1 with 100 men, for another, loyalty is based on individuals, NOT on the position they hold. They could be a king, but believe in your cause and respect you. Likewise, they could be a peasant who thinks you are full of it. You can't say that a knight would have high ego just because he is a knight, but a pikeman would be a mindless zombie just because he is a pikeman.

Another reason is that this would greatly limit the choices players can make when creating their army. Personally the only thing which I think can have enhanced, is the actual USE for prisoners. Right now they can only be sold for very cheap. Most of the time I don't even bother have any prisoners, and would rather spend the ability points on other things. I mean what about fighting some sword sisters, then taking them permanent prisoners to increase your men's morale? ::| Ok ok that was just a suggestion lol
 
One idea i had while writing that was that having prisoners could boost the morale of the troops. This would be because that once the prisoners were sold, the troops would get a share of the profit.

In respone to volkier, it doesn't seem right that a level 1 person could take command of 100 soldiers, even if it is for only a few hours. Who would join his cause in the first place?

Although thinking about it again, the people you hire only join you because you have money. You'd have to be a very rich level 1 person to be able to hire 100 peasants. Also, a single town doesn't stock that many peasants anyway. You'd be lucky to get thirty. If you tried to move to a different town to get troops, you'd be down to 6 people by the time you got there.

loyalty is based on individuals, NOT on the position they hold. They could be a king, but believe in your cause and respect you. Likewise, they could be a peasant who thinks you are full of it. You can't say that a knight would have high ego just because he is a knight, but a pikeman would be a mindless zombie just because he is a pikeman.

Ok, i'm thinking about this.
The idea im my post isn't that these things are absolute. It isn't that a knight will always defect, but the pikeman will never defect. It's just that the knight is more likely to defect than the pikeman. Sure, you'll occasionally get the pikeman who deserts as soon as he's given a chance, and the knight who will stay with you till the bitter end, but generally speaking, knights would be more likely to desert than pikemen simply because they've been taught from birth that they are special, and a rank above the common soldier.

One other thing i've been thinking of is the idea of friendship and loyalty borne through a long time and many battles experienced by both while they were both fighting for each other. Like the 'band of brothers' kind of idea. A soldier who's been with you for a very long time is more likely to stick it out with you.
 
Great idea Ingolifs.
Actually it's almost exactly my thoughts, but I couldn't lay it out better because my english is not good enough.

Well, i even think 'an idea' is a wrong word here.- It's just the proper solution to the problem.
 
I tend to still disagree only with the part which says that a knight is more likely to desert than a pikeman. Infact, I would think that a knight, who is supposed to hold honor and loyalty above all else, would stay far longer than a common mercenary, who is in it for the money.

Don't take me personally, I think your ideas regarding prisoners boosting morale, and troops sharing profit from the sale, is pretty good and makes total sense. I just don't think there is anything wrong with the current leadership system thats all, and that it needs replacing ::)
I also agree with you that somebody who was serving their leader for longer, would be more likely to remain with them.

I have nothing against your idea in general, providing that there is a reason for desertion. People leaving just because your 'leadership' is not high enough, but you pay them and feed them, still wouldn't make sense. What would make sense (to me at least) is you not having to pay as much if you have a high leadership, since your followers would be more willing for less. (But I think that is already in place.. have to experiment n check haha). Like I said, I don't see anything wrong with the current system, but other people may, so any idea is probably still a good idea ::)
 
And your rank could play a role in how many people desert. A lowly rank or no rank at all would cause more desertians but as your rank increases less people desert.
 
Ingolifs said:
It doesn't make sense that one person, even with all the prisoner management skill in the world, can keep control of 20 prisoners all by himself.

Ahem.

Testicle cuffs.

That is all.


I agree with Volkier that there's not much reason for desertion as long as you're paying and feeding for men, but how about if your men are much more likely to desert when you retreat from a battle? I figure it'd be too difficult having them desert coming into a large fight , but once they've seen the size of the enemy force and been beaten up a bit it wouldn't take much for your average sellsword to slip away in the chaos of a retreat.
 
Volkier said:
Don't take me personally, I think your ideas regarding prisoners boosting morale, and troops sharing profit from the sale, is pretty good and makes total sense. I just don't think there is anything wrong with the current leadership system thats all, and that it needs replacing ::)
The problem is that it isn't realistic. If you go to a tavern to hire peasants to fight for you, they aren't likely to say: "Nope, you can't handle me sir."
They will take the money and join your force, and when it becomes apparent that you have no ability to lead them, they either revolt or desert.
Volkier said:
I have nothing against your idea in general, providing that there is a reason for desertion. People leaving just because your 'leadership' is not high enough, but you pay them and feed them, still wouldn't make sense.
There is a lot more to managing troops than paying and feeding them. I myself could name a bunch of officers in reserve who might accidentally get shot in the back at a time of war. Your superior officer is not just someone to feed and pay you, (s)he's the person you trust your life to, and that sets quite a few requirements for the individual. If (s)he doesn't appear to be up for the task, your self-preservation kicks in and all manner of interesting things can happen.
 
Volkier said:
People leaving just because your 'leadership' is not high enough, but you pay them and feed them, still wouldn't make sense.

I manage several worker teams, and yeah, it never made any sense for me that some of them left even though they had been paid and stuff. That's just the way it is. People are peeple. There will always be guys who claim they are being paid or fed too little (regardless of the actual ammount). The point of leadership is not to let them convince the others.
 
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