Resigning

[Arys]

I don't understand what's so bad about just having a captains meeting practically everyone wants it, it can't hurt, clearly we have issues that need to be discussed, it would be unwise to start the tourney like this. Even if it's delayed by a week I don't see the big deal as long as all the issues are resolved. You can do another one of your polls to see if the community actually wants the meeting.

 

[Kohath]

You can do another one of your polls to see if the community actually wants the meeting.

But ask real people this time ...

 

[Oodle]

This may come as no surprise to some, but I'm resigning as Head Admin. I'm not capable of dealing with this tournament, and with the community involved, in its current state.

I've asked for a month for people to give input on rules. Only a select few do, and I make changes to the rules to reflect that. After that, ten other people, who said nothing before, get upset that I changed the rules. This happened several times throughout the month, and now that its a day before the start, that has happened again. This caused me to loose my patience with the community, and I have lost all interest in this tournament, and Warband, in general.

That said, I'm leaving the community. Zaffa/John/Eternal will do some democracy adminship thing for the tournament.

I wish the best for the tournament, in general, though.

RIP WHAT WILL WE DO WITHOUT UNAC SEASON 49

 

[BoogyLoH]

The last captain's meeting? You mean the one no one knew about and hardly anyone showed up and the ones who did show up just happened to show up because they serendipitously were online at the same time it occurred?

And this hidden polling you talk about is where again? Can you provide names/clans and decisions? Judging by your response to the Swiss System, it seems like you are biased against it and therefore shouldn't be the one personally asking the question behind hidden doors. Something called a 'meeting' where both ideas can be discussed with everyone at the same time would work wonders for this situation.

Which brings me to your complete lack of respect to anyone in this thread that wants to have a captain's meeting. Whether you like it or not Zaffa, if enough people want something to happen and are not happy with what is currently happening, they will make it happen. This is exactly how UNAC appeared in the first place.

Speaking of UNAC, it stands for United North American Championship if you forgot. This name was because the entire North American community came together and decided on a tournament that we ALL wanted to be apart of. It didn't happen because one person arrogantly decided for everyone and rushed it out the door. This is not Zaffa's North American Championship. As it is now, you might as well call it ZNAC because it's as far out of the hands of the community as I have seen.

 

[Fehnor]

I am sad to see William leave. However, Eternal has an excellent history running tournaments, even though he gets blamed for everything (How do you manage that?). I think he can still make this work, and get support and feedback from the community.



_{Why was Zaffa even considered for this role?}

 

[Kohath]

Every time we have a tournament, there is a last minute complaint about how the tournament is set up.

Thing is, this isn`t just a complaint, this is a big part of the community complaining ...

 

[Catholic]

I digress that we need a captain's meeting. The entire problem in UNAC S2 was that the captains were consulted for everything, including matters that they either didn't care about or had no idea about but still got a vote. It wouldn't work here, because asking 14 captains to vote on a format that has never been done before and that they might not care about or understand the implications of is not the best course of action. It's not time-efficient and it leads to worse decisions than if a single person made them, but it's inherently un-democratic and I can entirely understand why it gets disapproval.

The objective of the admin team has been to sit along a middle path. We had two captain meetings, the first of which was very successful and the second of which didn't happen. If an issue came up after the captain meetings, the theory was that the opinions of some of the captains would be taken into consideration in conjunction with the admin panel (the four of us) plus whatever is posted on the forums. This makes the process both mostly democratic yet mostly time efficient. Most tournaments pre-UNAC worked this way except they didn't have the "captain's meeting" part, so we're actually a bit more democratic than things used to be.

The issues are the following:
1) New points for discussion occurred that weren't even conceived in the captain's meeting, namely the Swiss system.
2) When opinions were asked for, nobody would give any input. When a decision is made, everyone complains. This has gotten to be so bad and unnerving to the point where the head admin resigned.
3) The rules-decided-by-committee system might not be happening. I don't know if Zaffa is talking with other captains, but I hope he is because I haven't heard from William or Zaffa since the first captain's meeting a month ago. We talked last night for five minutes and it went along the lines of "I'm going to do this by tonight, can you do this and I'll delegate more roles to you later?" "sure." I'm not accusing anyone of anything, but if I was one of three sub-admins and I'm now one of three head admins and I don't know what's going on, there's probably a problem.

I honestly wouldn't be opposed to some discussion. If we do this quickly, we can still start on the 21st. Captains - PM Zaffa, myself and John7 some thoughts or opinions regarding the Swiss-system tournament. I'll throw a thread up for the rest of you to discuss in. Quality over quantity - I don't care how many "swiss or riot" posts go up and they will be summarily deleted, I care about actual strong arguments for or against.



Kohath, we would seriously like actual input. We've been bloody begging for input since the beginning of the tournament. William resigned because you weren't giving him input. Give us actual arguments, give us actual posts. Give us discussion. We can't work off of "the community says you're wrong!!!" and "nord town or riot!!!" or whatever other trolling happens to be the favorite of the day. You are not complaining, you are whining.

If you are genuine about your concern about the tournament and want this to actually be the tournament you envision, then give us substantial posts with reasoning and facts. We will respect and listen to it, because it's what we've desired from the start.

 

[ClockWise]

I think we all just want to play at this point, and debate over warband makes me sad, but read on for nord town related wirds.

隐藏

So here is the thing, most of the current rule set is taken straight out of the last captain's meeting. The divided brackets, the map pool, map selection, basically everything.

I wouldn't put it past myself to have been zoned out, but I don't recall this at all. Specifically Nord Town being taken out. I think, judging by the general uproar caused by it, that most people are in favor of seeing Nord Town remain in the rotation. Sure, it has it's flaws. There is no perfect map. But there are worse maps that are currently in the UNAC map pool, so saying that Nord Towns issues are bad enough to warrant removal seems silly to me. I think it was also mentioned by someone that the only reason we were upset that it was taken our was because it was our favorite map. Well, obviously. We play warband to have fun. For a lot of us, Nord Town is a great map and tons of fun. I think maybe only wK would wholly disagree, and thats 1 clan out of, what, 14 registered?

So, to sum up: I like Nord Town because it's fun and I like fun, I don't think it's current issues are bad enough to warrant removal.

Free Nord Town Or Riot

 

[Oodle]

I think we all just want to play at this point, and debate over warband makes me sad, but read on for nord town related wirds.

隐藏

So here is the thing, most of the current rule set is taken straight out of the last captain's meeting. The divided brackets, the map pool, map selection, basically everything.

I wouldn't put it past myself to have been zoned out, but I don't recall this at all. Specifically Nord Town being taken out. I think, judging by the general uproar caused by it, that most people are in favor of seeing Nord Town remain in the rotation. Sure, it has it's flaws. There is no perfect map. But there are worse maps that are currently in the UNAC map pool, so saying that Nord Towns issues are bad enough to warrant removal seems silly to me. I think it was also mentioned by someone that the only reason we were upset that it was taken our was because it was our favorite map. Well, obviously. We play warband to have fun. For a lot of us, Nord Town is a great map and tons of fun. I think maybe only wK would wholly disagree, and thats 1 clan out of, what, 14 registered?

So, to sum up: I like Nord Town because it's fun and I like fun, I don't think it's current issues are bad enough to warrant removal.

Free Nord Town Or Riot

This man is correct!

 

[unicorn]

Every time we have a tournament, there is a last minute complaint about how the tournament is set up.

Thing is, this isn`t just a complaint, this is a big part of the community complaining ...

This happens every tournament. This is not a unique situation.

nah, i dont think there've been any admins that refused to add a map despite 20 responses from nearly every clan protesting its removal

 

[BoogyLoH]

2. You are being disrespectful to the other admins (Eternal/John/Cradoc), and this is unwarranted. While I feel your angst to me is also misplaced, likely because you are mad that your system isn't being used, it is wrong to attack the admins who have been working hard to create this tournament for you. We are trying our best, and if that doesn't please everyone, at least we tried to do what we could.

If any disrespect is being given, it is only to your poor attempt at managing this situation. Eternal has just said he doesn't know what's going on, Cradoc just joined the team last night, and John has been silent in all of this. Don't try and bring them into this when we know it is you that has been making the calls right now. If at first my angst was because you have suddenly changed to a horrible system without consideration of an alternative that was being discussed, it has now grown to your bullheaded behavior.

The fact that you have yet given any evidence of this 'initial polling [that] showed that teams didn't want a swiss system' after I have now asked for it three times while you continue to reiterate that we need to rush to start this tournament speaks volumes.



What needs to be addressed at a meeting:

Swiss System vs Random Divisions and tournament length
Nord town map removal
Discussion on the new Tie Breaker rule and an alternative
Discussion on new Map Pool rule and an alternative.

 

[KoA John]

Going to lock this thread and shift discussion over to Eternal's more appropriate thread, feel free to quote posts from here if you want to talk about certain things at the other thread

http://forums.taleworlds.com/index.php/topic,303402.0.html

Farewell William, we'll miss you. Best wishes in your future endeavors.