[research] Greek city states

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rgcotl

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Well most but not all of the armors and helmets that fit the time period are in the mod already but we are definitely missing things like scene props and maps of the cities so if you have any info circa 300 B.C. feel free to post. Furthermore any specific information like the episema (Shield emblem) of a specific Greek city or any particular information in terms of equipment of a specific group could be useful, and no, not the Corinthian helmet.
 

Roran 13

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I like this one. He has bronze cuisses, something I've only ever seen before once in another drawing. Was it the artist's fantasy or can its existence be proven somehow?

Also, these please. 1000 years out of timeframe but gloriously epicly looking:


 

EFREM

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MOAR gaudy colours!  :shock:

Alexander sarcophagus with the UV-rays:


these I put in spoilers cos' they're disturbing:
 


 



Roran 13 said:
Also, these please. 1000 years out of timeframe but gloriously epicly looking:


I think SITD  is more probable to have Achaians: if you would put them in RaW it's more likely to have musketeers in a Roman legion...
 

matmohair1

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Roran 13 said:
I like this one. He has bronze cuisses, something I've only ever seen before once in another drawing. Was it the artist's fantasy or can its existence be proven somehow?

















 

LionStrong

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Whats the cloth around the flutists mouth for?
Also, it would be nice to have an armor that has the spartan crimson cloak on it, although i'm not sure if they still wore them in 300 B.C.
 

RyanRyzzo

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LionStrong said:
Whats the cloth around the flutists mouth for?
Also, it would be nice to have an armor that has the spartan crimson cloak on it, although i'm not sure if they still wore them in 300 B.C.
"It appears that some variants of the instrument were loud, shrill, and therefore very hard to blow. A leather strap, called a phorbeiá (φορβεία) in Greek or capistrum in Latin, was worn by the auletai to avoid excessive strain on the lips and cheeks due to continuous blowing. Aulus players are sometimes depicted with puffed cheeks. The playing technique almost certainly made use of circular breathing, very much like the Sardinian launeddas which would give the aulos a continuous sound."

Wiki
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aulos
 

EFREM

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Hi guys :grin:
I post this url in this thread 'cos maybe it can result being useful to make new scenes or to create unique places on the map (it doesn't refer only to Greek or Hellenic period architecture, but most of):

http://www.perseus.tufts.edu/hopper/artifactBrowser?object=Building


Perseus Digital Library has a collection of images and blueprints of most important archeological sites.

so, even if some pages are not found- registering problem I think- there is some material that can be important as for example  the Poseidonia monumental complex in Campania, the wonderful temple of Athena, the magnificient temples of Sicily and Lucania, but also the Mausoleum of Alicarnassus and a scheme of the Great Temple of Zeus in Olympia which can be seen in the thumbnails in the per region folder.

there is a also collection based by age, which fits our period and a miscellanean repository for every kind of Greek building.
the images show well the construction material and the general type of murble used by the Ancients.

one simply not knows if the near future will admire the Seven Wonders come into Warband, for me it's a dream.
:mrgreen:
really hope it can be Worth a look of your Team
 

EFREM

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maps for cities  :grin:

Olintus:

Priene, in Ionic Anatolia:
Priene (Ionia). Private residential block of rectangular plot, split isometric.

Alexandria:

Kassope:

Demetriade, Thessaly:

Pella, look at the HUGE square agorà!!! :shock:

Smyrna (Ionia). Hypothesis refund up area of the seventh century BC (graphics processing from R.V. Nicholls, 195:cool:.

Selinunte (Sicily). Site plan (graphics processing Mertens, 2006).

Mégara Hyblaîa (Sicily). Floor plan of the agora, during the late seventh century BC (graphics processing Mertens, 2006).




trireme:

Greek Hoplites



Peltast Iphicrates.

Battle of Coronea, a repost probably sorry...

Thessalian horse men:

Athenians:

the thorax would be better with leather strips:


 

matmohair1

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illustrations by Carlos Fernandez del Castillo.

- Greek spy, the end of the V century BC
- Servant of the Greek hoplite, the end of the V century BC




Tarantine cavalry







 

EFREM

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matmohair1 said:
that's what people in CA should read before making a Peloponnesian Wars campaign without ****ing Sicily and Syracuse...

very interesting article! but if we want to make sea raids like the one who Athens did to conquer Pylos and Sphacteria, we should change the Whole system of sea travelling in RaW ( which is going to be overhauled however  :cool:). so let's wait and hope!
 

EFREM

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I highly doubt it, my friend, since Focus Storia magazine is only published in Italy.
if you are interested I can provide you a translation in a few days, though  :wink:
 

LionStrong

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that's a shame, although if you wouldn't mind translating it for me I would be very grateful as I find this part of history very interesting  :smile:
 

EFREM

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LionStrong said:
that's a shame, although if you wouldn't mind translating it for me I would be very grateful as I find this part of history very interesting  :smile:
you can count on me  :grin:

however matmohair1 it seems that the article lacks the first page, can you upload it please? 
 

EFREM

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matmohair1 said:
:mrgreen: forgive me, those are the pages I found,
I'm not sure which issue they're from
don't worry pal, you Always make an excelent job, very useful to the community! :grin:



Well... I think the article posted by matmohair1 is quite interesting for those who want to know more about  Greek warfare during the Peloponnesian wars. IMO it could be even useful to the developing of a new style of fighting for an independent Athenian faction, that  I really hope one day it will come (who knows? we wait & see).

here is my translation, keep in mind that the page order in the images is incorrect. hoping it is understandable and, of course, worthwhile!

the article





part I
  a successful raid: Pylos and Sphacteria

While Spartans were warring in Attic, the Athenian general Demosthenes reached the Peloponnese and created a beachhead on Pylos peninsula, the the northern tip of the Bay of Navarino closed from the 3 kms long uninhabited island of Sphacteria (see the  map on the left). He remained with five triremes and a few hundreds archers and hoplites, with which he deals with the reactions of the Spartans,forced to give up their expedition in the north. The Lacedaimonians land a contingent of hoplites on the coast of Sphacteria and assail the fortified garrison by land and sea. Demosthenes resists however, till a rescue fleet arrives attacking enemy ships anchored in the bay and passing through the two channels created by the presence of the island itself.the Spartans are unprepared and find themselves besieged by besiegers, while the 420 hoplites on the island are surrounded.
Athenians expect the surrender of the enemy in a few days.but the surrender is late o come since swimmers provide supplies to Spartans all summer long. the inaction of the Athenian ships, worsened by the lack of supplies too, provokes protests in the homeland. In autumn the besiegers are achieved by Cleone's fresh troops and together they finally order to attack.
Spartans are hit from all sides.few escape out.After a fierce battle only 292 men survive from the 420 who came two months and a half earlier. 120 men belong to the Spartiat caste; in their homeland only the dead will be honoured. However the fear for the living ones induces Sparta to peace treatise. the Athenian naval base of Pylos will be active for 17 years.

images:
warrior on the left is a Corinthian hoplite (second half of the fifth century), a Spartan ally. Corinthians were the main responsible for raiding Athenian farms. on the shield they had Pegaus the winged horse. this one-sleeve tunic was called exomis,it facilitated the movement of the arm with a sword.

warrior on the right is an Athenian peltast (second half of the fifth century), called psilos wich means light-armed. infantrymen like these used to block the enemy raids hiding themselves in the woods.

second page: ATTACK AND RESPONSE

the map shows the lines of the raid during the war of the Peloponnese. Red lines show the first invasion of Attic by Archidamus of Sparta; dashed lines mark the path of Peloponnesian army after they entered the Gulf of Corinth. the other red line in the north represent the paths Beotian allies used to attack the Attic country.
the blue lines shows the navy route Athenian fleet used to raid the enemy coast.

third page in the upper image
Sicilian raid. In one of the greatest Athenian campaign (it actually lasted 2 years and with the help of an impressive fleet), the Athenians used to raid the wealthy cities of Sicily. Here is an attck against Syracuse on the Epipolian upland (415 BC)

the soldier in the image is an Aetolian raider from the troops of Demosthenes (426 BC) he wears a Pilos helmet, the lynothorax and the shield with the A mark standing for Athens. the sword is called machaira and is single cut weapon.

fourth page warrior:

infantryman from the Eastern Aegean Isles (405 BC) the young Heracles choking two snakes on the shield represents Spartans and their eastern allies (keep in mind that two royal families were considered the only descendants from Heracles).
he wears a lynothorax and a chalcidian helmet, the normal equipment for the Greek hoplite.he could fight both in land and sea. 

part II
(...) mindful of the ultimate experience with Persians, Athens and the other poleis were equipped with more robust walls. instead of evacuating the territory from the enemy raids, now they merely entrench the people behind the walls up to the storm to pass.

Against the Attic.
In the Peloponnese, Sparta systematically applied the strategy of scorched earth against the people who refused to recognize her supremacy. when conflict broke out with Athens, Sparta coludn't find a better strategy than this against the Attic. In the  spring of 431 BC, in the first military season, king Archidamus led an army of 60.000 Peloponnesians, whom only 10% were Spartans, in the territory of Athens, with the intent to destroy and burn farms and crops. by doing this he thought the Athenians would opt for an open battle or, alternately, they would start a riot inside the city because of the famine Pelop.s were provoking. at least Archidamus was convinced that Athens would suffer a loss of credibility in front of the allies, showing that they were not able to defend themselves.
Victor Davis Hanson however admits that eradicating the permanent crops is more difficult than eliminating people, especially in a place where there was the highest concentration of olive trees and vines in Greece: between 5 and 10 milions, on a 3.000 sq km area, with almost 80 thousands hectares of cultivation. definitively too much, even for a considerable army like the one Archidamus led. if we add the extensive cultivation of wheat in the Aegean coasts and in Asia minor, that the powerful Athenian fleet was able to reach, we wonder why the Spartans pursued such a unefficient strategy.
for how big the army of the king was, it was always temporary: most of the warriors were peasants taken  from their fields and anxious to return back home. Supplying a large number of warriors, then, was very difficult at the time, and it could last only few weeks; it was calculated, in fact, that only in the first ten years of the conflict the Pelop.s had remained only 150 days in Attic! paying them was another problem: the cost of five raids -considering a soldier earning a drachma per day- consisted in 750 talents, for Athens this was bigger than the annual taxation.

the hard life of the raider.
in addition, all the effort was a Sisyphean task: the Spartans had to come back to Attic 4 times again, in the following years; Thycidides observes that the fourth time they finally realized they were cutting the same vines and the same trees they cut on the first raid.Next, the grain in the field was hard to burn as it is nowadays, comments Hanson. Neither it was easy choose the right moment to act: in the fifth expedition the Spartans came too early, when the grain was too green to be consumed or burned.
regarding the houses, they were made up of mud and brick, so it was hard to burn them down, especially when the refugees took way all the flammable materials.
So as we know, after the first raid almost 2/3 of Attic were safe and sound; the following 4 expeditions were composed by half the men Archidamus led the first time (30.000 men). we must conclude that the king settles for provoking the Athenians more than causing real damage to them. substantially the Spartans, having the most powerful weapon, the phalanx, continued acting like in the Messenian wars and not like they were attacking a modern and well organized empire; as the Corinthians said:" your methods, compared to the Athenians, are outdated!".
Pericles was conscious he should wait till the Spartans got tired, and in 424 his rivals gave up the raiding; also because, in the meantime, a worse enemy appeared in Athens, this time not expected by the great statesman: the plague. the gathering of a huge amount of people inside the walls, in fact, had caused the outbreak of the plague and, in the end, the Spartans saw more dead Athenians than than they would have died of hunger or battle.
Despite his foresight, when it came the time to react, Pericles tried to pay back the Spartans with the same coin. Athens applied the same strategy to Megara,  the peloponnesian access corridor to Attica, conducting 14 punitive expeditions against it,and obtaining the same meager results of opponents.Megarians barricaded themselves inside the walls and remained loyal to Sparta.then he changed strategy, adopting another type of incursions with the flee: the coup in the Peloponnese, which could range from a simple looting, with the taking of hostages along the coasts, to the opening of bridgeheads in enemy territory from which to launch raids against the villages and rural communities.it was the most successful of these expeditions, the taking of Sphacteria in 424 BC, to induce the Spartans of the king Agis to come back precipitously from Attica and make peace.so they hit civilians directly causing more deaths than pitched battle.
137 treacherous and sudden attacks have been counted, that the Athenians did mostly at night and using hoplites and light troops, stormtroopers and spoilers called peltasts (because they wear the pelta, a little crescent shield), psiloi (lightly armed warriors), gymnoi (naked), anaploi (without armour). during the time these military operations went stabilizing with the use of a hundred ships, the choice of vulnerable and little manned targets, the adoption of the hit and run tactics, without restraining in looting and devastation. it was sufficient to find ways to offset the costs of the campaign, that often necessitated the distance of 1300 km round trip, and to demoralize the enemy preventing the naval and land trade.

bridgeheads.
However, in the meantime the Spartans had understood that the opening of bridgehead in enemy territory and among its allies could be more productive to lead an army 240 km away from home. the same Agis, ten years after his ill-fated foray,returned to Attica to establish a garrison in Decelea, a stronghold just 20 km far from Athens, it offered the opportunity to make raids throughout the year,and to take shelter from the counterattacks of the Athenian cavalry. equally, however, continued to make the Athenians, multiplying their bases on the coast to encircle their rival. this situation caused a stalemate in Greece: the two States tried to prevail in naval and land battles; the sea, the element element on which the Athenians based their strength and their domination of the Delian League, Aegospotami was the site of the last battle for Athens. 

The Pelop. wars.
preceded by a first war of the Peloponnese (460-445 BC), the one defined as the Second Pelop. war or the Great Pelop. war is actually the clash between two Great empires, Sparta and Athens, for supremacy. Between the Peloponnesian League, captained by Sparta, and the Delian League, the Athenian empire;its definition comes from a historical perspective peculiar to Athens.the hostilities were decllared in 432 BC. the first phase is called Archidamic war, from the king who ruled Sparta and made the first raids against Attica. he was also responsible for the first peace, but the Athenians broke up after only one year.then Nicias succeeded in making another peace, the Nician peace (421 BC), but this did not last longer than the other. then there was another peace as fragile as the previous ones.
the expansionist policy of the Athenians led them to a disastrous campaign against Syracuse that exposed them even more offensive to the enemy. Athens still found the funds to rebuild the fleet: from 410 BC the continuous victories led Sparta to ask for a truce. Athens denied but admiral Lysander crushed the entire Athenian fleet near Aegospotami allowing the Spartans to conduct a siege and conquer the city in 404 BC. 

:mrgreen: