[research]Anatolia - Seulucids and Lysimachids

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matmohair1

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rgcotl said:
small area of seulucids still is possibile
Seek n Destroy said:
Lysimachus's kingdom yes,
:grin: so I guess we can have an Anatolia (Seleucids, Lysimachians...etc) research thread then...

Lysimachids 320BC-281BC





Early Seleucids 320BC-280BC




Later Seleucids 280 BC-83 BC






Galatians (mercenaries and axulia)


















Seleucid and Ptolemaic Reformed Armies 168-145 BC (Volume 1)

:arrow: https://www.scribd.com/doc/24486610/Seleucid-and-Ptolemaic-Reformed-Armies-168-145-BC-Volume-1




























Artwork by Graham Sumner  :arrow: http://gsillustrator.co.uk/work.php?type=1
from the book "Roman Conquests: Asia Minor, Syria and Armenia"


 

matmohair1

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Battle of Ipsus 301 BC


Antiochus the Great at the Battle of the river Arius, 208 BC - by Angel Garcia Pinto

 

SixRibbons

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How realistic would it be to make this faction have local troop trees in Western Anatolia? Europa Barbarorum 2 has Lydian Cavalry and Carian Warband but was it realistic or they are merely added to spice things up? Starting date of this mod is earlier than eb2 as well. Not much passed since the Macedonian conquest.
 

Seek n Destroy

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If they were still present and actively contributed in warfare then we'll try to have them in the mod either as mercenaries or local troops. We'll see when we get there.
 

SixRibbons

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Ok doing a little bit of research, Looks like the Anatolia was mostly native by that time. The local political entities such as Lycian League or Chrysaorian League survived into following centuries. Even at the time of Magnesia there were still many locals in the Seleucid army after all. Only the certain political centers should have high tier Macedon units.

I only looked up into Karia and Lycia, here is my thoughts about the military.(Names are temporary)

Kario-Lycian Slingers


Kario-Lycian Skirmishers  ---) Kario-Lycian Infantry
-Skirmishers and Infantry are representing the core, less hellenized ethnic population. Skirmishers are equipped with small round shields, javelins, short swords and may be axes too?
-Infantry are carrying aspis(may be mixed into smaller shields) javelins, short swords, helmets(primarily Phyrgian type)

Kario-Lycian Hoplites
-Hoplites are your average hoplites, they are representing the more hellenized high class, linothorax, primarily Phyrgian helmets, aspis, spear. Double sided axe of Zeus Labraunda and bright plain white color can be among the primary decorations of their shields, Karians are reported to be distinguished by their white shields during Persian wars)

Halicarnassian Elite Hoplites?? Or just Hoplites
-Well the city was a big thing during the Hekatomnid period but got a huge blow with the Macedonian siege, its former might still could be represented with an unique unit though. It wasn't deserted by that time.

Karians and Lycians are also mentioned to be using some kind of sickle sword


Double sided axe of Zeus Labraunda, primary deity of Karians.



Pisidians and Pamphylians can get a common troop tree as well. They would be less hellenized I think.

Edit: Europa Barbarorum team mentions rectangular shields for their Uazali unit, if they mention it then it surely must be based on some actual source. Infantry can have them.
 

Seek n Destroy

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I had a look at Anatolia a while ago and there were more than a few city-states and native populations that would have contributed with all sorts of troops, I'll have to dig it back again one day but for now we're still a bit far from it.

The sickle sword could be influenced by the Thracians installed in Bithynia.

I guess the shields are of the same kind shown in the Nile mosaic ~100 B.C. for the "Uazali":
 

SixRibbons

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Yup, obviously based on it. Although shields they used on eb2 is different than the eb1 unit. Its longer and more narrow.

I would say the Lysimachid Kingdom and the Odrysian Kingdom would be enough as the new factions in the eastern part of the map. The more it goes east and north, more unique troops and settlements will be needed, especially the middle east would be very troublesome. Each new faction will need  proper rival factions. Lysimacus has Odrysians and Macedon as his enemy. Odrysians has Macedon and Lysimachus, which is enough for both factions.
 

Seek n Destroy

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We plan on changing the map, with the maximum playable area as displayed in the image and in the red square is where we will focus after the next patch:
We could cut that in half and it would still be pretty vast and filled with factions. While focusing on Greece and Anatolia we're thinking of having Macedon, Lysimachus' kingdom, Greek/Corinthian League reformed by Demetrius, "Free Cities" as a faction to represent all the city-states that didn't join the league (taking some liberties here for the sake of convenience), Aetolian League and Epirus.
We could at a later date still add various Illyrian tribes, the Odrysian Kingdom (what remains of it) and Bithynia but it would already be quite a feat to finally reach the previous stage.

#Edit:
Lysimachus had the occasional quarrel with the Thracians after 300 B.C. but as I remember he was in rather good terms with Cassander while he was ruling Macedon, at least they both joined forces (together with Seleucus) against Demetrius and his father Antigonus at the battle of Ipsos.
 

SixRibbons

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Thats sounds great, keep up the good work :smile: I wish I had skills to help.

Edit: What will happen to Demetrius? Will he be the leader of the league or something? That part seems a little confusing.
 

Seek n Destroy

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Yes. He'll be leading the Corinthian League in a rather difficult position, holding roughly half of the Peloponnese plus some territories in the Anatolian coast.
 

SixRibbons

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If he conquers Macedonia he would be still the leader of League I guess, due the game mechanics not allowing such a transaction?
 

Seek n Destroy

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Maybe we can change that if the capital is captured and the faction is defeated the league gets renamed to the Kingdom of Macedon under the Antigonid dynasty.