[ Request ] Bring back renown increasing party size

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Adryl

Regular
In prior Mount & Blade titles, renown directly affected party size. This meant that any battle, no matter how small, brought a tangible result in the sense that renown increased, which would then increase party size. As currently implemented, Clan Tier (based on renown) seems to be main affector of party size. But once you hit tier 6, you're done!

So... after Clan Tier 6 there's no point to getting more renown? It just becomes very grindy after that point with no tangible benefits from huge, difficult battles.

Why not just bring back the concept of renown increasing party size indefinitely? I loved that. It would make the game a lot more fun, especially mid-late game when battles and leveling are becoming unrewarding. It feels very tedious to run around with the same party size constantly. It's fun when it's slowly but constantly increasing by 1-2 as renown is earned.
 

roadworker

Recruit
for warband that still did not make any sense. if you had more than 200 troops at leadership level 10, then the size of your army would still lower morale. there was no way to sustain a 200 size army, except for quick battles where you drop off your troops into a castle afterwards. and even if you filled up your inventory with food, with highest inventory management skill, your army would eat it away in a couple days

having a huge number to your own size really does not change anything other than being a constant army size, who constantly consumes your food and morale and makes you very slow. what you are really describing the fun experience of is the new mechanic of armies within factions. they move fast, they have separate food stocks and dont suffer morale from their overall size. and they stay in the army until the fun is over, instead of straying off because they spot an enemy or feel like defending something. and enemies can not attack anyone straying behind, the army is treated like one unit. so, if you want a big army, make one with your faction or join one if you dont care where the fight is going. you dont have to raise any army up yourself anymore, or having to deal with marshals who are hated and never lead armies
 

Adryl

Regular
No, I'm not talking about armies. Armies are fun and good, and I love that they implemented this mechanic, but they're not what I'm talking about. Armies are slower than my own party, cumbersome, and require that I pull in other lords from my kingdom which I don't always want to do. Armies are not fast. They are much slower than my party alone, and I can't catch up to enemy lords when I have an army. If I want to chase down lords and explore the map, I do so with my own party.

I want the renown I gain from battles to matter. I want to slowly increase my max party size, like an RPG stat on my character. Now that I'm tier 6, renown seems to not matter at all. It's boring. Warband and WFAS did this well. Just roll in that mechanic and it'll be fun too. Or, let me increase my clan to tier 7, 8, 9, and beyond. As it stands, battles become a lot less rewarding once I hit clan tier 6 and renown is now pointless. It would be very simple to allow player party size to increase with renown, even if it's not fast, and would really improve the end-game.

Grinding to a halt with both player leveling and party-size leveling before you get even half the map conquered is not necessary and makes the game start to feel tedious and grindy at that point.
 
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Itisausername

Master Knight
No, I'm not talking about armies. Armies are fun and good, and I love that they implemented this mechanic, but they're not what I'm talking about. Armies are slower than my own party, cumbersome, and require that I pull in other lords from my kingdom which I don't always want to do. Armies are not fast. They are much slower than my party alone, and I can't catch up to enemy lords when I have an army. If I want to chase down lords and explore the map, I do so with my own party.

I want the renown I gain from battles to matter. I want to slowly increase my max party size, like an RPG stat on my character. Now that I'm tier 6, renown seems to not matter at all. It's boring. Warband and WFAS did this well. Just roll in that mechanic and it'll be fun too. Or, let me increase my clan to tier 7, 8, 9, and beyond. As it stands, battles become a lot less rewarding once I hit clan tier 6 and renown is now pointless. It would be very simple to allow player party size to increase with renown, even if it's not fast, and would really improve the end-game.

Grinding to a halt with both player leveling and party-size leveling before you get even half the map conquered is boring.
You do realise that warband had a renown cap right and after that you could not increase party size other then leadership right and even if you got that party it was impossible to maintain because the more soldiers you had the lower the morale
 
No, I'm not talking about armies. Armies are fun and good, and I love that they implemented this mechanic, but they're not what I'm talking about. Armies are slower than my own party, cumbersome, and require that I pull in other lords from my kingdom which I don't always want to do. Armies are not fast. They are much slower than my party alone, and I can't catch up to enemy lords when I have an army. If I want to chase down lords and explore the map, I do so with my own party.

I want the renown I gain from battles to matter. I want to slowly increase my max party size, like an RPG stat on my character. Now that I'm tier 6, renown seems to not matter at all. It's boring. Warband and WFAS did this well. Just roll in that mechanic and it'll be fun too. Or, let me increase my clan to tier 7, 8, 9, and beyond. As it stands, battles become a lot less rewarding once I hit clan tier 6 and renown is now pointless. It would be very simple to allow player party size to increase with renown, even if it's not fast, and would really improve the end-game.

Grinding to a halt with both player leveling and party-size leveling before you get even half the map conquered is not necessary and makes the game start to feel tedious and grindy at that point.
Give a companion a small following and call him into a mini-army - just two parties. You can control troops in both parties and operate at the party size you want without any influence costs. When army cohesion drops just disband the army and immediately reform it. :smile:
 

Itisausername

Master Knight
Give a companion a small following and call him into a mini-army - just two parties. You can control troops in both parties and operate at the party size you want without any influence costs. When army cohesion drops just disband the army and immediately reform it. :smile:
Actually even making cohesion higher with companion party armies is free so you dont even need to disband
 

Adryl

Regular
You do realise that warband had a renown cap right and after that you could not increase party size other then leadership right and even if you got that party it was impossible to maintain because the more soldiers you had the lower the morale

Nope, I conquered the map before I hit the renown cap. Anyway no need to make it exactly like Warband, it could taper off requiring more and more rewnown as it gets higher, just it should increase the party size directly and not through clan tiers. Or if it does go through clan tiers, they should be able to increase indefinitely or certainly higher than they do now.
 

Itisausername

Master Knight
Nope, I conquered the map before I hit the renown cap. Anyway no need to make it exactly like Warband, it could taper off requiring more and more rewnown as it gets higher, just it should increase the party size directly and not through clan tiers. Or if it does go through clan tiers, they should be able to increase indefinitely or certainly higher than they do now.
No not in that way the renown had no cap it was troop limit gain for renown capped at 100 higher troop limit when you reach around 500 renown it goes down with each battle by 1 and goes up again which is why sometimes you could end up with 268/262
 

Adryl

Regular
Give a companion a small following and call him into a mini-army - just two parties. You can control troops in both parties and operate at the party size you want without any influence costs. When army cohesion drops just disband the army and immediately reform it. :smile:

It's not about the actual size of the army, it's about renown doing something. I like to see my party size increase as it feels like I'm making progress with something and it feels fun. I don't actually need more troops, it's just fun to see the party size constantly increasing as I fight more battles.
 

Itisausername

Master Knight
It's not about the actual size of the army, it's about renown doing something. I like to see my party size increase as it feels like I'm making progress with something and it feels fun. I don't actually need more troops, it's just fun to see the party size constantly increasing as I fight more battles.
Thats the point it didnt increase after that in warband most characters by endgame warband had around 30 charisma for me
10 leadership and the renown realistically the highest most troop counter limits go in warband for the player is around 200
 

Adryl

Regular
Thats the point it didnt increase after that in warband most characters by endgame warband had around 30 charisma for me
10 leadership and the renown realistically the highest most troop counter limits go in warband for the player is around 200

Regardless of what happened in Warband, I think it's more fun to increase party size linearly with renown indefinitely rather than tying it to clan tiers which max at 6. It's tedious when renown becomes pointless long before the map is conquered. I would be fine with also increasing clan tiers indefinitely such that I can use renown to get to tier 7, 8, and beyond.

Having the "increase party size based on fiefs owned" perk implemented would help, because then I could see a regular increase in my size as I'm conquering the map. But I'd still like renown to have an effect. It's just fun and makes the game less grindy. Right now, it feels like my party size hit a cap dozens of hours ago and just stopped there, and it feels boring.
 
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Itisausername

Master Knight
Regardless of what happened in Warband, I think it's more fun to increase party size linearly with renown indefinitely rather than tying it to clan tiers which max at 6. It's tedious when renown becomes pointless long before the map is conquered.
The same happened in warband renown became useless before conquering the map and you could start with like a 63 troop limit so that was kinda weird
 

roadworker

Recruit
if they have not done it already, renown can influence how much people trust to vote on you. i think thats how it worked in warband too. like you could be good friends with many lords within the faction, but have a really poor renown, so no one wanted you to have more towns, castles, villages or become marshal. yet you could also have a lot of renown but never interacted with any of the lords, but it makes them respect your needs

so for someone who dont care to do missions or level charm, they can focus on fighting and winning tournaments to earn their share in the kingdom
 

AnandaShanti

Sergeant Knight
for warband that still did not make any sense. if you had more than 200 troops at leadership level 10, then the size of your army would still lower morale. there was no way to sustain a 200 size army, except for quick battles where you drop off your troops into a castle afterwards. and even if you filled up your inventory with food, with highest inventory management skill, your army would eat it away in a couple days

having a huge number to your own size really does not change anything other than being a constant army size, who constantly consumes your food and morale and makes you very slow. what you are really describing the fun experience of is the new mechanic of armies within factions. they move fast, they have separate food stocks and dont suffer morale from their overall size. and they stay in the army until the fun is over, instead of straying off because they spot an enemy or feel like defending something. and enemies can not attack anyone straying behind, the army is treated like one unit. so, if you want a big army, make one with your faction or join one if you dont care where the fight is going. you dont have to raise any army up yourself anymore, or having to deal with marshals who are hated and never lead armies
This has nothing to do with the OP suggestion and your opinion of the renown/party size mechanic in warband is flawed because you assume the player would raise charisma and leadership, not just use raw renown for party size increase. I guarantee you the best warband builds to not waste points on leadership or charisma.

But ANYWAYS I agree with OP suggestion. If nothing else at least past rank 6 it should give a party size bonus or other benefit.
 

roadworker

Recruit
This has nothing to do with the OP suggestion and your opinion of the renown/party size mechanic in warband is flawed because you assume the player would raise charisma and leadership, not just use raw renown for party size increase. I guarantee you the best warband builds to not waste points on leadership or charisma.

But ANYWAYS I agree with OP suggestion. If nothing else at least past rank 6 it should give a party size bonus or other benefit.

ok... if you choose not to raise leadership at all, then you will have morale problems already at 30 troops. are you sure you played vanilla? :smile:
 

AnandaShanti

Sergeant Knight
ok... if you choose not to raise leadership at all, then you will have morale problems already at 30 troops. are you sure you played vanilla? :smile:
You're just making **** up now. You don't deserve a response really. You could be incompetent and not understand the in game tool tips I guess.
 

roadworker

Recruit
You're just making **** up now. You don't deserve a response really. You could be incompetent and not understand the in game tool tips I guess.
why the hostility? im not making that up. unless you constantly fight random opponents you find to keep your morale at least on average, you are going to see troops deserting. i have tried making loner characters who just fill up their party with prisoners rescued, i can see their morale suffers at 30 troops, at 50 troops its on low and they start to desert. and i know with full certainty, that 180 troops was a prime number to have at 10 leadership, that kept the morale at average if nothing was going on, both positive and negative. but it also drained your food supplies very quickly, and you had to stop at every village to find a good price on more food. there is no way you could have 100 troops with 0 leadership without experiencing mass desertion, even if it was appropriate faction troops. at about 5 leadership you could expect to have 90-100 troops with no problems, unless you had some bad fights

i know stupid info like this because i spent a boring month conquering calradia legitimately. i needed to know the absolute best number not to it screw up, well at least i thought i did until it turned out kings were beyond stupid late game and turned into fat +800 loner parties with the rest of their team exiled
 
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AnandaShanti

Sergeant Knight
i have tried making loner characters who just fill up their party with prisoners rescued, i can see their morale suffers
I think you just tanked your moral by recruiting prisoners, that's a thing in warband.
I suppose YMMV but unless you purposefully take a warband of 80+ and drag them around without fighting for extended amounts of time, there's zero reason to have moral problems. The moral bonus form leadership isn't even enough to cover the moral penalty of additional troops from leadership, so you need to use food variety and strategy (IOW don't drag 100 guys for no reason) no matter what. You can always have 40-50 or so guys with out having to worry about moral....unless you do something to drop it down, like recruit prisoners or starve them.

there is no way you could have 100 troops with 0 leadership without experiencing mass desertion
To be fair I don't think you can have 0 leadership in native warband, but still what I do is just dump them in the garrison if there's no war (there's always war)
and never bring more then 25 with me, since I want room to recruit. When it's time for full power it's to sweep enemies (lords) or take property, both give major moral, so it's never an issue. You can even take out a full stack of units to use trainer on at midnight, level them and put them back in the garrison to avoid the moral hit.
 

Itisausername

Master Knight
I think you just tanked your moral by recruiting prisoners, that's a thing in warband.
I suppose YMMV but unless you purposefully take a warband of 80+ and drag them around without fighting for extended amounts of time, there's zero reason to have moral problems. The moral bonus form leadership isn't even enough to cover the moral penalty of additional troops from leadership, so you need to use food variety and strategy (IOW don't drag 100 guys for no reason) no matter what. You can always have 40-50 or so guys with out having to worry about moral....unless you do something to drop it down, like recruit prisoners or starve them.


To be fair I don't think you can have 0 leadership in native warband, but still what I do is just dump them in the garrison if there's no war (there's always war)
and never bring more then 25 with me, since I want room to recruit. When it's time for full power it's to sweep enemies (lords) or take property, both give major moral, so it's never an issue. You can even take out a full stack of units to use trainer on at midnight, level them and put them back in the garrison to avoid the moral hit.
I mean like the biggest problem for me always was engame because leaders wer like 500 strong so i had to just raise armies kill them abd ride back as fast as i could but because how lords recruited in warband oh you just killed these 300 nord huscarls well they are back so i had to repeat the process in general late game warband i had me for leadership and charisma i had jeremus and i had that ine inv managment companion so i could carry a bunch of food and even then it was very hard to keep morale on average especially with a big faction because enemy lords would just stay in castles or go out and get killed so trying to find them was hard i like the bannerlord system more since i can actually have an army without the weird renown cap for warband there is 2 of these caps the one where afterward you cannot get mkre troop limit from renown it was separated its capped at 100 and player renown used for becoming a vassal and stuff of the sorts. The renown cap was basically useless and the only thing it did for the player is say het a bunch of archers dip**** or just spam nords or swadians because for some reason other lords party sizes oncreased with fiefs the players didnt so basically every faction had a king and a fief hoarder who got all fiefs the king didnt so both would have like 500 units and they were so annoying to fight
 

roadworker

Recruit
I think you just tanked your moral by recruiting prisoners, that's a thing in warband.
I suppose YMMV but unless you purposefully take a warband of 80+ and drag them around without fighting for extended amounts of time, there's zero reason to have moral problems. The moral bonus form leadership isn't even enough to cover the moral penalty of additional troops from leadership, so you need to use food variety and strategy (IOW don't drag 100 guys for no reason) no matter what. You can always have 40-50 or so guys with out having to worry about moral....unless you do something to drop it down, like recruit prisoners or starve them.


To be fair I don't think you can have 0 leadership in native warband, but still what I do is just dump them in the garrison if there's no war (there's always war)
and never bring more then 25 with me, since I want room to recruit. When it's time for full power it's to sweep enemies (lords) or take property, both give major moral, so it's never an issue. You can even take out a full stack of units to use trainer on at midnight, level them and put them back in the garrison to avoid the moral hit.

well i said rescued prisoners, not recruited prisoners. i stand by my word that its impossible to keep a functioning army beyond what your leadership skill allowed, the amount you can hold with your current leadership skill if you had 0 renown is the best amount, maybe a few above if the battles are going smooth. i wrote that thing about garrisoning troops in my first post. "there was no way to sustain a 200 size army, except for quick battles where you drop off your troops into a castle afterwards."

if the whole point is to take them from garrison and then dump them away when you are done, is that not exactly what you accomplish with armies in bannerlord? what makes the difference whether you take from garrison and drop them back, or just gather or join lords and ladies collected, is that the parties still function separately, that they dont have to eat from one inventory (you can see how quick it goes away when the army starves and you are the only one left with food) and they dont have to leave a garrison vulnerable, or have excessive amounts of troops in one castle so you can freely take from it. they made it less troublesome with armies by improving the role of marshals and turning it into the whole factions role

i dont think the op in particular is looking to run a single man army, but just wants to have renown make sense. i have thought about this and realized there were many ways renown mattered in warband. it decided who you could marry, how many fiefs you were entitled to, how much lords trusted you to command them around, and if you were a king or queen, it determined how much support you could gather. renown determined ones individual strength. bannerlord is lacking a lot of these features, they could improve this instead. that would make more sense
 
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