Reputation should be reworked

[Grimes]

If I understand the current system properly, reputation functions as a replacement for the honor system. Which means that if I ever want to start a kingdom later on, I need to have a good reputation in order to attract decent lords. This is important, because dishonorable lords as we all probably know will sink in relations fast whenever you give someone who isn't them a fief.

But right now raiding villages and monasteries as a viking - totally honorable, viking things to do that would NOT affect your reputation back home (if anything, they might increase your status, I would imagine!) negatively impact my reputation with viking lords. It's possible that this has already been accounted for in some way that I haven't noticed in my small amount of time playing, in which case fantastic, but if it hasn't I think this needs to be changed ASAP as it's a pretty big deal in terms of my gameplay.

 

[mutenroshie]

Sadly being a pagan is mostly broken, negativ reputation and a Christian mud campaign will destroy every relation with lords and fractions you can possible get. So if you dont want to play for a short while raiding or pillaging and to truly establish a kingdom you must be a christian.-.-

 

[killer german shepard]

I DONATED TO A PAGAN PRIEST AND I LOST REPUTATION

THIS GAME IS PREJUDICE AGAINST MY PRETEND FAITH

 

[Lav]

You should sue the devs for religious discrimination.

 

[Belthize]

There do need to be some tweaks to the reputation system but I've had no problems with Denmark and Vegr lords disliking me as I proceeded to repeatedly loot and burn the isles.  Most of them are perfectly happy with me as are the villages.  Admittedly the Alban and Aileach lords hate me, most of the other lords seem relatively indifferent.

It's perfectly reasonable that all the cities but Ribe and Tunsberg hate me for burning all the monasteries.

If you want to attract all the nice isle lords then you can't go raping and pillaging as a pagan.

It's certainly harder as a viking since it pushes you to continue pillaging rather than fall back on the 'business in every city' model. I'd like to get further through the kingdom portion before recommending changes.  There's a complex interplay between income, recruit volume, lords and just how much money you can make pillaging.  If there are no downsides to being a rampaging viking pagan then it quickly becomes a "I win" button.  Certainly the troops rock, the NorthVegr armies just steam roll the Alban ones. 

 

[Grimes]

There do need to be some tweaks to the reputation system but I've had no problems with Denmark and Vegr lords disliking me as I proceeded to repeatedly loot and burn the isles.  Most of them are perfectly happy with me as are the villages.  Admittedly the Alban and Aileach lords hate me, most of the other lords seem relatively indifferent.

It's perfectly reasonable that all the cities but Ribe and Tunsberg hate me for burning all the monasteries.

If you want to attract all the nice isle lords then you can't go raping and pillaging as a pagan.

It's certainly harder as a viking since it pushes you to continue pillaging rather than fall back on the 'business in every city' model. I'd like to get further through the kingdom portion before recommending changes.  There's a complex interplay between income, recruit volume, lords and just how much money you can make pillaging.  If there are no downsides to being a rampaging viking pagan then it quickly becomes a "I win" button.  Certainly the troops rock, the NorthVegr armies just steam roll the Alban ones.

The issue is that a kingdom with dishonorable lords will quickly fall apart. It doesn't just make it more difficult, it means I have to jump through hoops to build my reputation back up and build relations with these lords after the fact. Which means I just won't pillage as it impacts me negatively, much more negatively than the short-term gain is worth.

It also doesn't make sense that these "honorable lords" would care that I'm pillaging monasteries. We're talking about a completely different culture; it wasn't as simple for them as it seems for us, and actions that seem wrong now were not to them.

 

[kalarhan]

There do need to be some tweaks to the reputation system but I've had no problems with Denmark and Vegr lords disliking me as I proceeded to repeatedly loot and burn the isles.  Most of them are perfectly happy with me as are the villages.  Admittedly the Alban and Aileach lords hate me, most of the other lords seem relatively indifferent.

It's perfectly reasonable that all the cities but Ribe and Tunsberg hate me for burning all the monasteries.

If you want to attract all the nice isle lords then you can't go raping and pillaging as a pagan.

It's certainly harder as a viking since it pushes you to continue pillaging rather than fall back on the 'business in every city' model. I'd like to get further through the kingdom portion before recommending changes.  There's a complex interplay between income, recruit volume, lords and just how much money you can make pillaging.  If there are no downsides to being a rampaging viking pagan then it quickly becomes a "I win" button.  Certainly the troops rock, the NorthVegr armies just steam roll the Alban ones.

The issue is that a kingdom with dishonorable lords will quickly fall apart. It doesn't just make it more difficult, it means I have to jump through hoops to build my reputation back up and build relations with these lords after the fact. Which means I just won't pillage as it impacts me negatively, much more negatively than the short-term gain is worth.

It also doesn't make sense that these "honorable lords" would care that I'm pillaging monasteries. We're talking about a completely different culture; it wasn't as simple for them as it seems for us, and actions that seem wrong now were not to them.

You can have dishonorable lords and still keep the realm together.

1) Feasts are a easy way to get good relations
2) Give lords gifts
3) Give lords troops
4) Help them in combat
5) Do quests

You can be *evil* as much as you want. Go raid those monasteries. Go pillage villages. Steal from caravans. Burn cities. The game can be played both ways (good or evil)

 

[Grimes]

There do need to be some tweaks to the reputation system but I've had no problems with Denmark and Vegr lords disliking me as I proceeded to repeatedly loot and burn the isles.  Most of them are perfectly happy with me as are the villages.  Admittedly the Alban and Aileach lords hate me, most of the other lords seem relatively indifferent.

It's perfectly reasonable that all the cities but Ribe and Tunsberg hate me for burning all the monasteries.

If you want to attract all the nice isle lords then you can't go raping and pillaging as a pagan.

It's certainly harder as a viking since it pushes you to continue pillaging rather than fall back on the 'business in every city' model. I'd like to get further through the kingdom portion before recommending changes.  There's a complex interplay between income, recruit volume, lords and just how much money you can make pillaging.  If there are no downsides to being a rampaging viking pagan then it quickly becomes a "I win" button.  Certainly the troops rock, the NorthVegr armies just steam roll the Alban ones.

The issue is that a kingdom with dishonorable lords will quickly fall apart. It doesn't just make it more difficult, it means I have to jump through hoops to build my reputation back up and build relations with these lords after the fact. Which means I just won't pillage as it impacts me negatively, much more negatively than the short-term gain is worth.

It also doesn't make sense that these "honorable lords" would care that I'm pillaging monasteries. We're talking about a completely different culture; it wasn't as simple for them as it seems for us, and actions that seem wrong now were not to them.

You can have dishonorable lords and still keep the realm together.

1) Feasts are a easy way to get good relations
2) Give lords gifts
3) Give lords troops
4) Help them in combat
5) Do quests

You can be *evil* as much as you want. Go raid those monasteries. Go pillage villages. Steal from caravans. Burn cities. The game can be played both ways (good or evil)

All of which I would have to do CONSTANTLY to make up for the huge relation losses whenever I assign a fief. Not worth it, not fun.

 

[Dan11311]

There do need to be some tweaks to the reputation system but I've had no problems with Denmark and Vegr lords disliking me as I proceeded to repeatedly loot and burn the isles.  Most of them are perfectly happy with me as are the villages.  Admittedly the Alban and Aileach lords hate me, most of the other lords seem relatively indifferent.

It's perfectly reasonable that all the cities but Ribe and Tunsberg hate me for burning all the monasteries.

If you want to attract all the nice isle lords then you can't go raping and pillaging as a pagan.

It's certainly harder as a viking since it pushes you to continue pillaging rather than fall back on the 'business in every city' model. I'd like to get further through the kingdom portion before recommending changes.  There's a complex interplay between income, recruit volume, lords and just how much money you can make pillaging.  If there are no downsides to being a rampaging viking pagan then it quickly becomes a "I win" button.  Certainly the troops rock, the NorthVegr armies just steam roll the Alban ones.

The issue is that a kingdom with dishonorable lords will quickly fall apart. It doesn't just make it more difficult, it means I have to jump through hoops to build my reputation back up and build relations with these lords after the fact. Which means I just won't pillage as it impacts me negatively, much more negatively than the short-term gain is worth.

It also doesn't make sense that these "honorable lords" would care that I'm pillaging monasteries. We're talking about a completely different culture; it wasn't as simple for them as it seems for us, and actions that seem wrong now were not to them.

You can have dishonorable lords and still keep the realm together.

1) Feasts are a easy way to get good relations
2) Give lords gifts
3) Give lords troops
4) Help them in combat
5) Do quests

You can be *evil* as much as you want. Go raid those monasteries. Go pillage villages. Steal from caravans. Burn cities. The game can be played both ways (good or evil)

All of which I would have to do CONSTANTLY to make up for the huge relation losses whenever I assign a fief. Not worth it, not fun.

That would depend on how often you assign fiefs and how many dishonorable lords you have. I've used the methods mentioned to increase relations in Bryenwalda and it works.

 

[Grimes]

That would depend on how often you assign fiefs and how many dishonorable lords you have. I've used the methods mentioned to increase relations in Bryenwalda and it works.

I don't care if it works. It isn't convenient or enjoyable, it adds even more grinding to an already grindy process. I don't want to have to pause my epic campaign on England because my lords are getting pissy.

And frankly it messes with my immersion as a Viking to take a reputation hit when I raid. It simply doesn't make sense. Why are the christian/pagan relations there if that isn't exactly their purpose?

 

[hoe12moe]

If I remember correctly the reputation only gets affected if you aren't a vassal/mercenary and pillage monasteries. But I do agree that the system is weird, I play as a pretty decent guy but somehow I've managed to get a -130 reputation rating 

 

[JuJu70]

That would depend on how often you assign fiefs and how many dishonorable lords you have. I've used the methods mentioned to increase relations in Bryenwalda and it works.

I don't care if it works. It isn't convenient or enjoyable, it adds even more grinding to an already grindy process. I don't want to have to pause my epic campaign on England because my lords are getting pissy.

And frankly it messes with my immersion as a Viking to take a reputation hit when I raid. It simply doesn't make sense. Why are the christian/pagan relations there if that isn't exactly their purpose?

LOL, IRL kings had to put up with pissy nobles all the time, but it's too tedious for you. Not too mention that 90% of the lords in the game are actually Christian, so yeah they shouldn't care if you raid monasteries  .

But even if the lord is pagan, he may still consider this an objectionable action just because that's the way he is.

 

[JuJu70]

If I remember correctly the reputation only gets affected if you aren't a vassal/mercenary and pillage monasteries. But I do agree that the system is weird, I play as a pretty decent guy but somehow I've managed to get a -130 reputation rating 

If you ever do any "wrong" things like fight farmers, pillage villages, fight clergy etc it would affect your reputation.

 

[hoe12moe]

Yeah I know, but I don't recall doing that in my current game 

 

[Grimes]

LOL, IRL kings had to put up with pissy nobles all the time, but it's too tedious for you. Not too mention that 90% of the lords in the game are actually Christian, so yeah they shouldn't care if you raid monasteries  .

Yes, it is too tedious for me, because I'm playing a video game, not lording over an actual kingdom. And like I already said, is that not what the christian/pagan split is there for in the first place? Why would "pagan" actions taken against Christians negatively affect my standing with pagans? It makes no sense.

But even if the lord is pagan, he may still consider this an objectionable action just because that's the way he is.

Frankly for the time period that would be ridiculous, especially to represent it as though it'd be the norm. It was a part of their culture to do these things.

 

[JuJu70]

Yeah I know, but I don't recall doing that in my current game 

You must've done  something 

 

[hoe12moe]

Yeah I know, but I don't recall doing that in my current game 

...Exept starting a war, break every bone on a prisoner etc. but not nearly enoguh for such a bad rating 

 

[JuJu70]

Yeah I know, but I don't recall doing that in my current game 

...Exept starting a war, break every bone on a prisoner etc. but not nearly enoguh for such a bad rating 

Ah, Ok I think everytime you hit a prisoner you lose like 5 reputation, you must've made a mess out of him. Di you also kill him in the end? Did you also kill Thiaderd's family?

 

[hoe12moe]

Yeah I know, but I don't recall doing that in my current game 

...Exept starting a war, break every bone on a prisoner etc. but not nearly enoguh for such a bad rating 

Ah, Ok I think everytime you hit a prisoner you lose like 5 reputation, you must've made a mess out of him. Di you also kill him in the end? Did you also kill Thiaderd's family?

Nah, after that I saw the light and only killed people that had a slighlty different religion than me

 

[SmattlePattle]

Having relations loss with Danish and Northvegr lords for raiding is probably my biggest annoyance with the DLC