Renown and Dialogues

[UluEgo]

There is something weird about renown (or I missed something). I have 150+ renown but when I meet with a new lord, he says "Do I know you?". Sure, you don't know me... But then, what does "renown" mean?

I know, renown is necessary for certain things and quests. But in dialogues, I couldn't see any interesting response...

For example:
- Do I know you?
- I am UluEgo.
- Hmm..! You are the man who defeated Lord X, aren't you? Yes, I know you and I want to kill you right here - right now..!

Another example:
- Thank you sir for helping us.
- It was a pleasure for me. By the way, I am UluEgo.
- Oh yes. I know you. We all know you. You are the one of the greatest lords in Calradia. My son wants to be a warrior like you when he grows up.

He he he..! After such a conversation, I probably feel better.

If it was suggested before, then I am sorry..! I searched (quickly) but couldn't find exactly what I suggest...

 

[The Mercenary]

Meh. I could see this at about 1000 renown. On a side note, get 5000 renown or so, then talk to a Lady you've never talked to before. "Hmm...I've not heard of you before..."

 

[vorudain]

The best answer they give me.

"Yes, I Know your name. And from what I've heard, many grieving widow knows too. But this is not of my concern".

 

[FrisianDude]

HEY It's you- the hero of Kvatch. 

You've got a point, though.

 

[Goodguy3]

The guy who saved Kvatch from being des-oh...

Well at least you saved the cast-wha?

No worries, with the count's leadership the city will be rebuilt in no t-oh you're ****ting me.

 

[UluEgo]

Actually, I don't mean something like "Woov, He is the Hero of Kvatch..!".

But adding a few flattering sentences shouldn't be so difficult...

Then, renown may be more meaningful...

And this is a simple solution of similar problems mentioned before; for example, "Ladies knowing you" (http://forums.taleworlds.com/index.php/topic,47100.0.html)

 

[Cloud Breaker]

Goodguy3, don't be a troll.



Renown being meaningful:

Seeing some lords tremble in fear when you have massive renown, or lords underestimating you when you have little. When lords fear you, they can be made to surrender peacefully.

The size of the army that accompanies you should be taken into account also.

 

[Archonsod]

They do sometimes refer to your renown, or your interactions with their fellow lords, after you've introduced yourself. I suspect there's more to the choice of how you introduce yourself than meets the eye.

 

[Moujik]

Renown being meaningful:

Seeing some lords tremble in fear when you have massive renown, or lords underestimating you when you have little. When lords fear you, they can be made to surrender peacefully.

The size of the army that accompanies you should be taken into account also.

And the persuade skill, if I dare say.

 

[Cloud Breaker]

I don't think so. Intimidation is what's going to get someone to surrender.

Give me a scenario where persuasion can exact a surrender from your enemy.

 

[Moujik]

I don't think so. Intimidation is what's going to get someone to surrender.

Give me a scenario where persuasion can exact a surrender from your enemy.

No need for a scenario, you already agree with me. Intimidation is a form of coercive persuasion.

If you still want a picture, imagine a leader coming up to his enemy "Surrender or die !", and although there are 50 swardian knights and just as many <insert favorite troop> backing up his threats the guy is obviously trembling in fear. The enemy lord will think "Well this guy is obviously afraid, his army might look all dandy but it must be worth ****. Let's kill them all".

Now imagine imagine a leader coming up to his enemy "Surrender or die !", and although there are only 10 peasants standing behind him, the confidence in his voice is so intense that the enemy lord might think "Damn something is wrong about this. I had better be careful."

The word "persuasion" is vague enough to cover quite a bit.

 

[Cloud Breaker]

If you still want a picture, imagine a leader coming up to his enemy "Surrender or die !", and although there are 50 swardian knights and just as many <insert favorite troop> backing up his threats the guy is obviously trembling in fear. The enemy lord will think "Well this guy is obviously afraid, his army might look all dandy but it must be worth ****. Let's kill them all".

You don't need to be persuasive to be brave. Are you really trembling in fear when facing an AI lord?

Now imagine imagine a leader coming up to his enemy "Surrender or die !", and although there are only 10 peasants standing behind him, the confidence in his voice is so intense that the enemy lord might think "Damn something is wrong about this. I had better be careful."

Medieval lords weren't smart enough to be cautious against adversaries numbering just 10 peasants when they had an army.



Generally your posts have nothing to do with making your enemy surrender.


I forgot to mention; size and quality of the army.

 

[Moujik]

<Generic pile of bs>

Wait a second, are you globally saying that having a confident attitude and being persuasive are two totally unrelated traits ?

(As a side note, your question about whether I really tremble in fear when facing an AI lord is invaluable.)

 

[Cloud Breaker]

According to you, if a lord has 0 persuasion, he is a coward. Do you confirm this?

There is no 'confidence' level in M&B. It should be generally accepted that bigger and better the army is, more confident the commander will be.

Explain how a lord commanding a hundred top tier units will tremble in fear unless his adversary exceedingly outnumber him, in which case he should be less confident anyway.

 

[Moujik]

Explain how a lord commanding a hundred top tier units will tremble in fear unless his adversary exceedingly outnumber him, in which case he should be less confident anyway.

[...] imagine a leader coming up to his enemy "Surrender or die !", and although there are only 10 peasants standing behind him, the confidence in his voice is so intense that the enemy lord might think "Damn something is wrong about this. I had better be careful."

-> Because he is intimidated by the opposing lord.

Now I pulled out excessive numbers of course, don't make me say that a lord with 0 persuasion should surrender all the time. This isn't about fine tuning numbers.

As for:

According to you, if a lord has 0 persuasion, he is a coward.

His tone is unlikely to convince the enemy to surrender without a fight. He is only a coward if he runs from the battle afterwards.

 

[Cloud Breaker]

[...] imagine a leader coming up to his enemy "Surrender or die !", and although there are only 10 peasants standing behind him, the confidence in his voice is so intense that the enemy lord might think "Damn something is wrong about this. I had better be careful."

-> Because he is intimidated by the opposing lord.

How so? The opposing lord has only 10 peasants. That's not intimidating, that's laughable.

As for:

According to you, if a lord has 0 persuasion, he is a coward.

His tone is unlikely to convince the enemy to surrender without a fight. He is only a coward if he runs from the battle afterwards.

So an ugly idiot brute who knows nothing about persuasion who is nonetheless bloodthirsty and backed-up by a hundred huscarl is going to look like a coward. I see.

 

[Moujik]

-> Because he is intimidated by the opposing lord.

How so? The opposing lord has only 10 peasants. That's not intimidating, that's laughable.

Now I pulled out excessive numbers of course [...]

Damn you must be doing it on purpose. You're making me repeat what I already said.

So an ugly idiot brute who knows nothing about persuasion who is nonetheless bloodthirsty and backed-up by a hundred huscarl is going to look like a coward. I see.

Sorry but you're being a twit. Please stop.

An ugly idiot brute who knows nothing about persuasion will attack before even trying to persuade his enemy to surrender.

My dog knows nothing about geomicrobiology. Unless I'm unlucky, neither do you. Does it mean you look the same ? Ok.

 

[Cloud Breaker]

My dog knows nothing about geomicrobiology. Unless I'm unlucky, neither do you. Does it mean you look the same ? Ok.

We might not look the same, but we are both blissfully ignorant animals. 




I removed that 'pulling numbers' bit because I found it irrelevant.



Does saying something like 'Hah! I have twice your number and we are all manly huscarls! Now bow down before me and s**k my d**k!' really require persuasion level WTFPWNZOR?

 

[Moujik]

To be fair I'll suggest a more realistic scenario. Lord Bob as 50 knights vs Lord Joe who has 70 knights.

• With 0 persuasion, Lord Joe has to fight against Lord Bob who believes he can pull it off against 70 knights.
• With 7 persuasion, Lord Joe appears so confident that Lord Bob doesn't dare face those 70 knights. He feels compelled to surrender.

But the point really isn't the numbers, it's just the effect that the attitude of a lord can have on the confidence of an opponent.

edit:

Does saying something like 'Hah! I have twice your number and we are all manly huscarls! Now bow down before me and s**k my d**k!' really require persuasion level WTFPWNZOR?

Well, why not ? WTFPWNZOR could be equal to 1 in this equation.

 

[Cloud Breaker]

Your example is what renown is for.

A highly renowned marshall who has 50 knights will not bow down a lowly peasant-born lord who has little renown even if that peasant-lord had a force of hired blade of 300, and no matter how confident that peasant looks like. It's pretty obvious why he's so confident. Because he has more numbers.  You can be confident without being persuasive.