Remove the block delay you've added back

KSHMR

Recruit
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The amount of block delay depends on the current position of your weapon. If you are attacking with a left-swing it will obviously take longer to block a right hit. However, if you are in neutral position it will still be relatively fast. That being said, it is not entirely true that all the ''skill'' is taken away. If you want to be sure to block a hit, you shouldn't be so aggro. Another way of saying it is that being overly aggressive (by feint spamming a lot) will be punished by this block-delay system.
 

UniversitasMetal

Sergeant
WBNW
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The amount of block delay depends on the current position of your weapon. If you are attacking with a left-swing it will obviously take longer to block a right hit. However, if you are in neutral position it will still be relatively fast. That being said, it is not entirely true that all the ''skill'' is taken away. If you want to be sure to block a hit, you shouldn't be so aggro. Another way of saying it is that being overly aggressive (by feint spamming a lot) will be punished by this block-delay system.
No one just waits to block a feint though you ready attacks in anticipation or to find an opening and then cancel the attack into block when you realise your timing was wrong. The attacker or feint spammer has the advantage since you can't cancel into a block reliably due to delay when you guess wrong, and he's at a disadvantage only when you guess right.
 

Wojski

Regular
WBWF&SNW
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Do we expect that this will change? Or we only wish. Because I'm starting getting used to how it is.
 

Mabons

Knight
M&BWBWF&SNWVC
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The amount of block delay depends on the current position of your weapon. If you are attacking with a left-swing it will obviously take longer to block a right hit. However, if you are in neutral position it will still be relatively fast. That being said, it is not entirely true that all the ''skill'' is taken away. If you want to be sure to block a hit, you shouldn't be so aggro. Another way of saying it is that being overly aggressive (by feint spamming a lot) will be punished by this block-delay system.


I've tried it in duels, not attacking, just trying my best to just block and then swing back right after a block. You'll literally get spammed down before you can swing an attack because of how ambigiuous some of the feints are. (Right into up swing for example).

I have no problems with block delay as long as the feint speed is slowed down. But that would quickly result in people never playing melee again as you would LITERALLY never get a kill against anyone with half a brain.

So the only solution is the same as Warband, if I press block, it should be there.
 

KSHMR

Recruit
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Yeah I still stick to what I said. However, the thing you said about feints being ambiguous is true and also different from Warband.

In warband it was quite doable to block all attacks, but in bannerlord this feels a lot more difficult.

So with that being said, it would probably be good to change one of the two.
 

Hans 77

Sergeant
WBWF&SVC
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The attacker or feint spammer has the advantage since you can't cancel into a block reliably due to delay
This man gets it.

I've tried it in duels, not attacking, just trying my best to just block and then swing back right after a block. You'll literally get spammed down before you can swing an attack because of how ambigiuous some of the feints are. (Right into up swing for example).
It's literally impossible to fight from "neutral". I'm in the same boat as you, I tried to work around the block delay by attempting to re-wire 8+ years of Warband conditioning and did my best to keep my finger off of left click. Lasted all of five minutes -for the same reasons you just mentioned. There's a reason it's standard procedure to be in an "attack ready stance" every moment you're not blocking -because every frame counts and if you aren't in a position to respond immediately to your opponent's attacks you will get beaten to the punch and spammed/feinted into oblivion.

The block delay remains an abomination and has unbalanced the dueling/melee dynamic, shifting the balance of power completely in favor of over-feinting and desperate spamming. Any playstyles that used angles/counter-punching are screwed.
 

Shemaforash

Marquis
WB
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0
Playing bannerlord is like being one of those dool kids in nditions people always made fun of and now it's incentivized
 

KSHMR

Recruit
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the block delay is actually not a problem if Taleworlds makes it slightly easier to block attacks.
 

RDP

Veteran
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the block delay is actually not a problem if Taleworlds makes it slightly easier to block attacks.
Screw realism, if i click block my character should block, atm its like playing on 200 ping.
 

Wojski

Regular
WBWF&SNW
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Screw realism, if i click block my character should block, atm its like playing on 200 ping.
+2

Actually it links with rubbish servers which makes 20 ping a big difference. Try dueling at 50/60 ping with some1 that reach 30/35.
 

Pacemaker

Squire
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So, since the creation of this thread, I think it has gotten better, but that might just be me getting used to the system. It still doesn't make all that much sense since combat is too fast-paced to account for an increased delay based on weapon position. People won't ever shut up about it and you can be sure this will be removed in any multiplayer mod in the future, if it hasn't been removed by then. Absolute delay must return.

The amount of block delay depends on the current position of your weapon. If you are attacking with a left-swing it will obviously take longer to block a right hit. However, if you are in neutral position it will still be relatively fast. That being said, it is not entirely true that all the ''skill'' is taken away. If you want to be sure to block a hit, you shouldn't be so aggro. Another way of saying it is that being overly aggressive (by feint spamming a lot) will be punished by this block-delay system.
It has nothing to do with being aggressive, at least for me. I like pressuring opponents by holding an attack, and now it exposes a weak spot because it takes 10 years for my dude to drag his 500 kg weapon over to the other side. I also don't know any player so high-skilled and smart that he can take advantage of it in the heat of the fight anyway, aside from when he does it unintentionally, so it is simply a factor of randomness.
 

Gibby Jr

Marquis
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The amount of block delay depends on the current position of your weapon. If you are attacking with a left-swing it will obviously take longer to block a right hit. However, if you are in neutral position it will still be relatively fast. That being said, it is not entirely true that all the ''skill'' is taken away. If you want to be sure to block a hit, you shouldn't be so aggro. Another way of saying it is that being overly aggressive (by feint spamming a lot) will be punished by this block-delay system.
saying people should be more passive is basically asking for the super long duels we had in warband to come back.

this video is 35 mins and although it’s certainly possible to play even more defensively than either of us did there, it’s an indication of the kind of length in duel-time you’re looking at if the meta becomes ‘be defensive’. Bannerlord needed to add more skill-based aggro options to prevent warband-like long duels. making blocking unreliable doesn’t achieve that, because it means as a player you either go ALL IN or you keep your distance and play consistently. when it’s casual duels of course people like to go in and enjoy the duel, but in a tournament is someone really gonna put themselves in a situation where they risk the block delay preventing them from defending themselves? or are they gonna play defensively and keep their distance? in my experience, it’s only a matter of time until someone wants to win a tournament match so much that they play super passive to get the win, and it doesn’t take long for other people to see that is works and copy and create a horribly boring defensive meta like existed in warband, particularly for 1h duels.
 

Squirrelfart

Squire
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As a casual player, while I never ever had a particular problem with duels being excessively long, I can really only agree with Gibby's sentiment that
it’s only a matter of time until someone wants to win a tournament match so much that they....create a horribly boring defensive meta
Duels definitely shouldn't be as long as they were in WB.

But right now, I'd rather take the horribly-defensive meta of blocking for 35 minutes than for duels to instead be running around the duel arena staying out of range and kiting the enemy for 35 minutes, like it's the goddamn pre-duel footsies from WB but for the twenty seconds you're playing before you throw the duel and quit the game, you're fighting a chronic s-keyer.

While both options are ****, at least I can actually ****ing play the goddamn game if I have the ability to block an attack, and for a casual player like me, whose average enemy and ally will never have the consistency to block attacks without screwing up for like a minute tops in WB, "playing to win" is actually "playing the game" in WB, and giving yourself over to what should've been Bannerlord's core gameplay experience of tempo-based combat, instead of whatever the **** it is right now. While I can't make an opinion for the pros, I can definitely say that a player like me had no issue with the length of duels, but I can see the pros getting extremely frustrated with it.

Dueling in Bannerlord for me is a question of whether I want to play a bad clone of Warband (go all in, play tempo, duel ends in like five seconds because the feints are unreadable and none of us can block), or whether I want to play to win, which actually means to play the pre-duel Warband footsies for all eternity every time I start a duel (which seems to me is the exact same thing as the first option, except there's about a minute of staring at each other out of range and pressing movement buttons). That's basically just my surface level casual experience about it, but that experience should be important too, which is why I argue for blocking to be better.

But again, I iterate that both options are ****. One is **** for highly skilled players, but the second option is dog**** for almost all players.
 

Alyss

Sergeant Knight at Arms
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Defense isn't viable atm tho. Only feint spam or outranging works in this game, most attacks aren't actually blocked they are dodged because blocking is so bad. In warband you could have Offensive players, counter-offensive players and defensive players. Counter-offense in bannerlord doesn't work because blocking makes you slower and chambering is useless and too risky, and defense is useless because blocking is useless as well. The actual game literally punishes you for trying to block.