Remove Crush Through Or Remove Multiplayer

[EbdanianAdmiral]

Experiment is over

Its not fun to play against, and slightly increasing or decreasing its likelihood will do nothing to change that.

The current coding essentially gives every two handed weapon a chance to randomly crit anyone who is fighting against it.

Keyword random. There is very little someone who is fighting against it can do to prevent it.

Its affected by weapon weight, a weapon stat which is not even available to view by players in the armory. Which weapons are better or worse at crushing through is left as a complete mystery unless you literally look at the game files.

Its just frustrating to fight against, and doesnt actually solve any of the balance issues for Twohanders. Twohanders were weak in skirmish because of their vulnerability, not because of their damage output. It also makes them even more annoying to fight against in gamemodes where they are NOT weak , such as TDM and Captain mode.

Its not fun and its not balanced. Why is it here? What is it accomplishing? What element of gameplay is improved because of its existence?

Even making it a very small chance of happening is just leaving it as a bugaboo demon that only shows up when you least expect, making it something you have to just hope doesnt happen to you.

If you dont have the ability to ONLY give it to certain weapons as a tag, it should not be in the game at all. You cannot leave it as a "formula" that shows up inconsistently based on someone running forward slightly faster than usual.

Spoiler

By the way, its possible to crush through blocks with the one handed mace the Khuzait gets.

 

[Alyss]

I have experienced a Menav crushing through Battania Oathsworn shield. Idk if it's intended but really crush through needs to go. The only players who will defend it are the ones who have been abusing it for the past 3 weeks. It rewards a lack of skill and it is pretty frustrating and uninteresting to play and watch.

 

[sleepy dragon]

I have experienced a Menav crushing through Battania Oathsworn shield. Idk if it's intended but really crush through needs to go. The only players who will defend it are the ones who have been abusing it for the past 3 weeks. It rewards a lack of skill and it is pretty frustrating and uninteresting to play and watch.

Sounds like you got outplayed.

 

[sigi1]

crush through has been uncompetitive since the start of m&b

 

[Gibby Jr]

Sounds like you got outplayed.

 

[Aprikosenmann]

+1
By reducing the probability it only gets more random. You block 3 overheads perfectly fine but the fourth, which looks exactly the same, oneshots you with 117dmg crushthrough.
Either remove it completely or crushthough every time but then only 10dmg. I prefer the first one!

 

[Mushbeast]

I have to agree. The feature really adds nothing good to gameplay, and just creates further frustration (and there's a lot of that in the current state of MP ). The weird thing is that I really struggle to pull it off on purpose, even if I have a friend just overhead blocking with a one handed sword. Yet in the heat of battle it seems to come out at the worst, random times in hits that look like you've been hit by the handle of the weapon.

I'd say get rid of it completely, or maybe just make a succesful crush through cause a stagger or something? Could see that also be annoying, but it'd make mauls more of a team, utility weapon that could stagger shieldmen or some ****.

 

[Ikea Knight]

I like that Taleworlds tried to make shock Inf more viable in Skirmish. They shot over there goals, though.

I don't like the randomness of crush through and that there is no way to block.
I think it could be fixed by making active blocks always prevent crush through.
That way it would stay fun for casual players and more engaging for experienced players and duelists.

 

[Kwal]

Maybe, if TW wants to keep this dynamic like the class system, it can be made like a timing system where if you are blocking within something like 0.3 milliseconds, you always block, but if you are blocking statically, you can get punished with a crushthrough which should do minor damage. In that way there is at least a way to be skillful against the dynamic while it will still be an extra hindrance on the battlefield. Or is that also what you mean with "active blocks" Ikea?

 

[Ikea Knight]

Maybe, if TW wants to keep this dynamic like the class system, it can be made like a timing system where if you are blocking within something like 0.3 milliseconds, you always block, but if you are blocking statically, you can get punished with a crushthrough which should do minor damage. In that way there is at least a way to be skillful against the dynamic while it will still be an extra hindrance on the battlefield. Or is that also what you mean with "active blocks" Ikea?

Yes that's what I mean. Afaik there already is passive and active blocking in the game.

There are two animation for blocking. If you start to hold your block a long time before the attack comes, on block you will get stunned a little longer compared to to active block.
It's pretty easy to spot if you look out for It.

 

[Kwal]

Well it definitely sounds like the perfect option for making crushthrough more interesting. It feels logical too.

 

[Younes]

HAMMERS

 

[EbdanianAdmiral]

Ok so you know how Couching and Pike bracing has a special weapon mode right? Where when you press that button, your character enters a special animation/stance and performs the action. Same with some throwing weapons, you can change their weapon mode to make them a melee weapon.

Do the same thing with crush through. Instead of tweaking or removing it, give certain mauls and hammers a “crush through” weapon mode than can be activated by pressing X like you would with any other weapon that has 2 separate modes.

When in “normal” mode:
-Weapon operates completely normal, can swing in all directions, feint, etc.
-Cannot crush through.

When in “crush” mode:
-The way the character holds the weapon changes to give a visual indication that you are in that mode. could just be both hands on the very bottom of the shaft, as if you are generating as much leverage as possible.
-Can only do up swings. alternatively, can do side swings but much slower than normal because you are holding the weapon in a less balanced way.
-The crush through formula that has been implemented now applies to the weapon.

People hate crush through because of its randomness and a lack of counterplay. Changing weapon stats does nothing to alleviate the randomness of it. I think this is a really good solution that leaves the mechanic in the game without having it be so random and unfun to fight against.

Copy pasted from the stickied thread. What are your thoughts on this?

I like the active blocking idea on paper, but it could make Hammers somewhat useless against good players. Having crush as a separate weapon mode allows it to retain its usefulness in groupfighting and skill based scenarios without being inherently random or unfair.

 

[Luci_Tide]

If we keep crush through can it only be on the maul, kinda like in warband?

 

[Swampy Merkin]

Implement Warband crushthrough or remove entirely.

 

[F0_]

I think it's already dumb that prediction in blocking is discouraged with the passive and active blocking system ( which is obviously blatantly ripoff off Chivalry and Mordhau which had different parries) I honestly have 9k hours in warband and was not understanding why after a block someone spammed me instantly in bannerlord and it was because i was actually putting up a block TOO FAST, if anything blocking quickly should be rewarded instead of punished. I am responding to those who think that crush through should be left into depending on passive or active block...

 

[Warfive]

I’m interested in the active/passive blocking against crush through. I would suggest something similar to the unbalanced trait where if you actively block a crush through attack, it leaves them open for a single attack. I believe that would add some balanced risk/reward gameplay to using two-handlers with crush through.
It would keep them fun in casual and more chaotic games while becoming generally obsolete in higher level competitive matches.

 

[Caps]

I’m interested in the active/passive blocking against crush through. I would suggest something similar to the unbalanced trait where if you actively block a crush through attack, it leaves them open for a single attack. I believe that would add some balanced risk/reward gameplay to using two-handlers with crush through.
It would keep them fun in casual and more chaotic games while becoming generally obsolete in higher level competitive matches.

it would just feel like the game glitches out if you add 1-2s long stuns, the code of the stun calculation is already messy enough as it is

 

[Younes]

Overly complicating the game is what most of you are doing. Crush should be only on hammers, ez.

The combat is supposed to be intuitive. You're only making it harder to understand the game for newer players without actually adding anything interesting.

 

[Mushbeast]

It's a nice idea with the active blocks but I must agree with Younes. I don't think it'll ever feel fair even like that, most of the time that I've been crushed through has been from packs of menav spam and in that case active blocking wont help. I would hope they remove it completely as it's completely screwed up 1vX and if you go on TDM servers all you will see is hoards of people with 2handers abusing this mechanic. Stop shooting yourself in the foot TW.