Religion Thread

[DeGoblin]

Then, some religions tend to breed them, and others, not. How come ?

Because the West always held individualism especially high while the Muslim world exactly the opposite. Especially the Arab world.

 

[Jhessail]

suicide bombers,

Then, some religions tend to breed them, and others, not. How come ?

Buddhist monks who self-immolate. Hitler Jugend kids who blew themselves up with Allied tanks. Oh wait, two examples off the top of my head that clash with your "message". 

So intelligent, much knowledge, wow.

 

[Vissy]

Belief in paradise(and other beliefs) can be a factor in why a disproportionate amount of suicide bombers were muslim.

 

[ancalimon]

Islam is not what a group of people (even if that group is a majority) make of it. It is strictly what is written inside the book which is very easy to understand if you don't go against the nature of human beings (which is to be good).

For example it clearly (really clearly) states that the majority of the human population is going to not realize the existence of oneness of everything (commonly known as God among English speakers). It also surprisingly states that the majority of the other group (that think they realized the oneness of everything) is going to appoint partners to this "God" which is called "şirk" in Arabic.

These partners include many things from messengers of God to atoms, science, other books, clergy, etc. So accepting any other thing as the original cause is being polytheist.

So it is stated in Quran that sects are not Islam but teachings of other people who were polytheists.

I will make a list of of what Quran says and what different so called sects of Islam actually do and why they do it. It will be difficult but I guess it will help clear all the misinformation. Even if one person sees why they he is fooled that would be enough.

 

[PoisonCourtesan]

the nature of human beings (which is to be good).

 

[Duh]

Religious beliefs certainly would play a large role I would think, especially in the case of suicide bombers, who wouldn't have much use for a higher pay.

IIRC f.e. the Hamas pays the families of Martyrs families a "rent". It is also pretty much agreed upon that ISIS success was significantly linked to its ability to pay wages. To be fair though, ISIS wouldn't really qualify as terrorists in the traditional sense (doesnt take and hold land f.e.).

Belief in paradise(and other beliefs) can be a factor in why a disproportionate amount of suicide bombers were muslim.

It has the same role as being Tamil has in the disproportianate amount of tamil suicide bombers in Sri Lanka.

 

[ancalimon]

The thing about ISIS is that they see themselves as Godlings and they are honest. They try to follow the hadith they choose to believe and they do not hide the ones which they don't like ( for example like most of Sunni Turks who don't accept the hadith about recm~ stoning a prostitute to death. According to hadiths, the manuscript aboout recm that was supposed to be in Quran was eaten by a goat)  They use those hadiths which allow them to become gods over humans. (rulers over slaves).

If you guys are honest and care about humanity, you have to declare war on the hadiths not ISIS.

 

[Duh]

The thing about ISIS is that they see themselves as Godlings and they are honest. They try to follow the hadith they choose to believe and they do not hide the ones which they don't like for example most of Sunni Turks.  They use those hadiths which allows them to become gods over humans. (rulers over slaves).

Not true anymore. Muhammad supposedly said that "Noone may punish with fire, but god" no? The murder of the jordanian pilot was actually quite an interesting development in that regard as they had previously taught the literal understanding of the prophehts words and did not support any metaphorical meaning (they now argue he meant hellfire).

 

[ancalimon]

The thing about ISIS is that they see themselves as Godlings and they are honest. They try to follow the hadith they choose to believe and they do not hide the ones which they don't like for example most of Sunni Turks.  They use those hadiths which allows them to become gods over humans. (rulers over slaves).

Not true anymore. Muhammad supposedly said that "Noone may punish with fire, but god" no? The murder of the jordanian pilot was actually quite an interesting development in that regard as they had previously taught the literal understanding of the prophehts words and did not support any metaphorical meaning (they now argue he meant hellfire).

Mohammed is not allowed to punish anyone (with a few exceptions like rapists in the harem area (the holy lands around Kaaba)). Him, being the envoy of The God, is bound by Quran as well. Even those that attack them can not be killed if they are captured.

They can interpret anything anyway they like. It's a test according to Quran. Any hadith except the word of God is rendered dubious in Quran.  There are two kind of verses inside Quran according to Quran. Those that are plain and simple to understand and those that require logic and common sense. According to Quran few of the people can really know what these verses mean. People without logic and common sense can not be turned from doing the wrong thing. Most of the people are gullible. Many simply want power over other people.

 

[Leonidas300]

Mohammbro says that no one must kill but that Jihad is good, Mohammbro says that no one can use violence but then says that the heads of infidiels must be cut, Mohammbro says that the white is white but then the white is black.

Your ideology is a joke and the guy who wrote it and invented it from fantasious ideas married a kid of 9 years old, killed and ordered massacres against innocents, assaulted merchants, robbed using violence the same that ISIS is using right now, etc... etc... and a large etc... pfhahahahaha

"I DEFEND IZLAM COZ I'M A VERY GOOD EDUCATED AND MY BRAIN HAZ BEEN EDUCATED TO BE INDEPENDENT AND THINK WITH REASON BUT OF COURZE, IZLAM MUST BE THE MAIN THING FOR ME, NO DEMOCRAZY, NO FREEDOM, NOTHING ABOVE IZLAM COS PRAISED BE THE LEADER, PRAISED BE THE GUY WHO MAZZACRED INNOCENTZ, THE GUY WHO ORDERED EXECUTIONZ, THE GUY WHO MARRIED A KID OF 9 YEARZ OLD AND THE GUY WHO ASSAULTED AND ROBBED PRIVATE PROPERTY OF INNOCENTS, I'M ZOOOO PRO"

 

[ancalimon]

Mohammbro says that no one must kill but that Jihad is good, Mohammbro says that no one can use violence but then says that the heads of infidiels must be cut, Mohammbro says that the white is white but then the white is black.

Your ideology is a joke and the guy who wrote it married a kid of 9 years old, killed and ordered massacres against innocents, assaulted merchants, robbed using violence the same that ISIS is using right now, etc... etc... and a large etc... pfhahahahaha

"I DEFEND IZLAM COZ I'M A VERY GOOD EDUCATED AND MY BRAIN HAZ BEEN EDUCATED TO BE INDEPENDENT AND THINK WITH REASON BUT OF COURZE, IZLAM MUST BE THE MAIN THING FOR ME, NO DEMOCRAZY, NO FREEDOM, NOTHING ABOVE IZLAM COS PRAISED BE THE LEADER, PRAISED BE THE GUY WHO MAZZACRED INNOCENTZ, THE GUY WHO ORDERED EXECUTIONZ, THE GUY WHO MARRIED A KIDOF 9 YEARZ OLD AND THE GUY WHO ASSAULTED AND ROBBED PRIVATE PROPERTY OF INNOCENTS, I'M ZOOOO PRO"

Jihad is only allowed in case other people invade your land or try to expel you from your homeland.

You are talking about hadiths not Quran. Mohammed did not do any of those things you mentioned. They are propaganda against him because he did things which was condemned by many people (like abolishing slavery, giving equal rights to woman or creating a secular city state in Medina).

Please read http://www.studyquran.org/resources/Quran_Reformist_Translation.pdf  before coming to conclusions.

 

[Duh]

Mohammed is not allowed to punish anyone (with a few exceptions like rapists in the harem area (the holy lands around Kaaba)). Him, being the envoy of The God, is bound by Quran as well. Even those that attack them can not be killed if they are captured.

This makes me feel like you did not understand my post. I wrote nothing about Mohammad punishing anyone.

They can interpret anything anyway they like. It's a test according to Quran. Any hadith except the word of God is rendered dubious in Quran.  There are two kind of verses inside Quran according to Quran. Those that are plain and simple to understand and those that require logic and common sense. According to Quran few of the people can really know what these verses mean. People without logic and common sense can not be turned from doing the wrong thing. Most of the people are gullible. Many simply want power over other people.

No. The very act of interpretation was to them sin. They see Interpretation as something that falsifies gods words and led people on the wrong path. They had for a long time favored the literal understanding of Muhammads words - a salafist approach.

 

[Leonidas300]

Dude, people believe in an ideology, created from his fantasious ideas, by a guy who married a 9 years old kid and ordered massacres, robbed private property using violence, assaulted innocents, etc, etc...

Spoiler

Wtf!

I'd understand this ideology and its believers if the guy who invented it atleast would have been a peaceful person and a person who would've spread a truly peaceful ideology like Buddhism for example, but believing a guy who has caused so much suffer to innocent people using the same violence that ISIS is using right now... is a f****** joke to intelligence.

PS: I would love to know the opinion of a scientist about this ideology, he wouldn't dare to give his opinion, he would be threatened to death and killed for sure hahahah omfg.

 

[DeGoblin]

Mohammed is not allowed to punish anyone (with a few exceptions like rapists in the harem area (the holy lands around Kaaba)). Him, being the envoy of The God, is bound by Quran as well. Even those that attack them can not be killed if they are captured.

They can interpret anything anyway they like. It's a test according to Quran. Any hadith except the word of God is rendered dubious in Quran.  There are two kind of verses inside Quran according to Quran. Those that are plain and simple to understand and those that require logic and common sense. According to Quran few of the people can really know what these verses mean. People without logic and common sense can not be turned from doing the wrong thing. Most of the people are gullible. Many simply want power over other people.

Everything that involves the slightest logic can be taken to all directions easily. I'm sure ISIS's Imams can justify themselves easily with their own twisted one. And the matter of fact, how can you be sure they have the wrong logic and not you? Your interpretations are according to how you weigh values like human life, freedom, etc. In a world that values them differently then the simple logic parts will be changed.
Its a shame when these 2 worlds collide then. (ehem France)

Edit: About suicide bombers from earilier: More examples can be found in Japan's kamikaze bombings, German ramming planes from ww2 and Iranian kids in the Iran-Iraq war. What do all of these have in common? Low respect to the individual, they developed a culture that an individual is a tool, if you will, to the group. And that's where middle eastern culture comes in today. You can see it from the simplest examples when they riot more often about stuff that doesn't have to do with themselves; or when 2 guys fighting and the westerners will all watch from aside the middle easterners will intervene. This is probably good to certain level.

 

[ancalimon]

Mohammed is not allowed to punish anyone (with a few exceptions like rapists in the harem area (the holy lands around Kaaba)). Him, being the envoy of The God, is bound by Quran as well. Even those that attack them can not be killed if they are captured.

This makes me feel like you did not understand my post. I wrote nothing about Mohammad punishing anyone.

They can interpret anything anyway they like. It's a test according to Quran. Any hadith except the word of God is rendered dubious in Quran.  There are two kind of verses inside Quran according to Quran. Those that are plain and simple to understand and those that require logic and common sense. According to Quran few of the people can really know what these verses mean. People without logic and common sense can not be turned from doing the wrong thing. Most of the people are gullible. Many simply want power over other people.

No. The very act of interpretation was to them sin. They see Interpretation as something that falsifies gods words and led people on the wrong path. They had for a long time favored the literal understanding of Muhammads words - a salafist approach.

Yes I know that sect. In fact the blind president of a biggest univerity in Medina (I don't know if he is still there) belongs to that sect who thinks earth is not round because if Earth was round everything would fall from Earth. Well according to Quran, blind people on Earth will always be blind in their real life after they die.   (I remember reading in Quran that the front part of their head was going to be taken away from them just like how they did it to madman in the past: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lobotomy )

Mohammed is not allowed to punish anyone (with a few exceptions like rapists in the harem area (the holy lands around Kaaba)). Him, being the envoy of The God, is bound by Quran as well. Even those that attack them can not be killed if they are captured.

They can interpret anything anyway they like. It's a test according to Quran. Any hadith except the word of God is rendered dubious in Quran.  There are two kind of verses inside Quran according to Quran. Those that are plain and simple to understand and those that require logic and common sense. According to Quran few of the people can really know what these verses mean. People without logic and common sense can not be turned from doing the wrong thing. Most of the people are gullible. Many simply want power over other people.

Everything that involves the slightest logic can be taken to all directions easily. I'm sure ISIS's Imams can justify themselves easily with their own twisted one. And the matter of fact, how can you be sure they have the wrong logic and not you? Your interpretations are according to how you weigh values like human life, freedom, etc. In a world that values them differently then the simple logic parts will be changed.
Its a shame when these 2 worlds collide then. (ehem France)

Those are clever words. But nothing can change what I think about freedom or value of human life.  It's possible that those poeple can change their view because there are many examples. When it's difficult to interpret a verse, the only thing you have to do is start reading between the lines. If you see Quran praising freedom and cursing slavery this can always help you use the correct meaning of a word.

For example there is a passage in Quran. When the followers of Moses start complaining about the crude food "God sent them", some want to return to Egypt because they had more options there. Moses wants to stop them from doing it because freedom is better than slavery. Let me find it...

Children of Israel in Sinai, yet Unwilling to Pay
the Price of Freedom
2:57 We shaded you with clouds, and sent
down to you manna and quails, "Eat
from the goodness of the provisions We
have provided you." They did not wrong
Us, but it was themselves that they
wronged.
2:58 We said, "Enter this town, and eat from
it as plentifully as you wish; and enter
the gate humbly, and talk amicably, We
will then forgive your mistakes, and We
will increase for the good-doers."
2:59 But the wicked altered what was said to
them into a different saying, thus We
sent down upon the wicked an affliction
from the sky because they had
transgressed.*
2:60 Moses was seeking water for his people,
so We said, "Strike the rock with your
staff." Thus, twelve springs burst out of
it; each tribe then knew from where to
drink. "Eat and drink from God's
provisions, and do not roam the earth as
corruptors."*
2:61 You said, "O Moses, we will not be
patient to one type of food, so call for us
your Lord that He may bring forth what
the earth grows of its beans, cucumbers,
garlic, lentils, and onions." He said,
"Would you trade what is lowly with
what is good?" Descend to Egypt, you
will have in it what you have asked for.
They were thus stricken with humiliation
and disgrace, and they remained under
God's wrath for they were not
appreciating God's signs, and killing the
prophets with no justification. This is for
what they have disobeyed and
transgressed.*

(see pages 64 and 65 for more information about these verses) http://www.studyquran.org/resources/Quran_Reformist_Translation.pdf

Also in certain verses, the penalty for not following certain rules in Islam for newly convert Jews or *Christians is to release a slave to freedom. (which I think can not forced on them because Quran also states that there can be no forcing anyone in Islam.

 

[Swissky]

"I DEFEND IZLAM COZ I'M A VERY GOOD EDUCATED AND MY BRAIN HAZ BEEN EDUCATED TO BE INDEPENDENT AND THINK WITH REASON BUT OF COURZE, IZLAM MUST BE THE MAIN THING FOR ME, NO DEMOCRAZY, NO FREEDOM, NOTHING ABOVE IZLAM COS PRAISED BE THE LEADER, PRAISED BE THE GUY WHO MAZZACRED INNOCENTZ, THE GUY WHO ORDERED EXECUTIONZ, THE GUY WHO MARRIED A KID OF 9 YEARZ OLD AND THE GUY WHO ASSAULTED AND ROBBED PRIVATE PROPERTY OF INNOCENTS, I'M ZOOOO PRO"

Good grief, you are completely IQ-liberated.

 

[Pharaoh Llandy]

I will now be banning anybody who uses the letter Z in place of the letter S in the debating of religion.

 

[DeGoblin]

You also skipped to the last part? 

 

[ancalimon]

http://www.studyquran.org/resources/Quran_Reformist_Translation.pdf

See pages 371, 372, 373 detailing 74th chapter for a very interesting mathematical prophecy (I guess the chapter which decides who is going to be discarded or not after death according to Quran) inside Quran that points to the year 1974.

074:001-2 The All-Wise God, though He revealed
the Quran to Muhammad about 14 centuries ago, kept
its mathematical miracle as a gift to our times.
Rashad Khalifa, an Egyptian biochemist living in the
USA, did not have any knowledge that his curiosity
regarding the meaning of the alphabet letters that
initialize 29 chapters of the Quran would end up with
the discovery of its mathematical system. His
computerized study that started in 1969 gave its fruits
in early 1974 by the discovery of the 14-century-old
SECRET. The discovery of this code opened a new
era that has been changing the paradigm of those who
do not turn off the circuits of their brains in matters
related to God. This discovery provided very
powerful verifiable and falsifiable evidence for God's
existence, His communication with us, and the
fulfillment of a great prophecy. Besides, it saved
monotheists from the contradiction of trusting past
generations regarding the Quran, knowing that they
have fabricated, narrated and followed volumes of
man-made teachings, demonstrated ignorance,
distorted the meaning of the Quranic words, and
glorified gullibility and sheepish adherence to the
fatwas of clerics.
If the Code 19 was going to provide strong evidence
for the existence of God and for the authenticity of
the Quran, then it is reasonable to expect that the
identity of the discoverer and the time of the
discovery would not be coincidental. Indeed, the
events have demonstrated a prophetic design in the
timing of this miraculous mathematical design.
The number 19 is mentioned only in a chapter known
as "The Hidden," the 74th chapter of the Quran.
Juxtaposing these two numbers yields 1974, exactly
the year in which the code was deciphered. (Calendar
based on the birth of Jesus and the solar year are
accepted by the Quran as units of calculating time.
See, 19:33; 43:61; 18:24. Besides, this is the most
commonly used calendar in the world.) If we
multiply these two numbers, 19x74, we end up with
1406, the exact number of lunar years between the
revelation of the Quran and the discovery of the code.
In January 31, 1990, Rashad Khalifa was assassinated
in Tucson, Arizona, by a terrorist group affiliated
with al-Qaida. Ironically, soon after his departure,
ignorant people started idolizing him and created a
cult distorting his message of strict monotheism. Also
See 27:82-85; 40:28-38; 72:19-28. For further
information on this historical discovery, see the
Appendix On it Nineteen.

Also see the pages 413 through 425 for details.


PS: I suspect that "angel" is ultimately "science". The medium or traditionally "envoy" through which The God allows communication between reality and humans. Maybe Gabriel was related with "logic and mathematics". Who knows.

So in my opinion, if what I suspect is true, someone who realized what logic is is actually accepting angels as a reality. Like I said countless times before words are inert. They are meaningless. Just metaphors in our minds. Some minds are stronger than others...

 

[Splintert]

You could work for the History Channel.