Relation with vassals, bug?

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BoomBap

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I have 3 vassals.
One of them holds all forts and villages in Friese,
second holds all forts and villages in Danmark,
third holds all forts and villages in Northvegr.

For myself I left the 3 towns.

All of them have martial personalities.

No wars, no casus, no allies.(so no fights, my lords can't be taken prisoner)

I got relations with all of them to 100 by giving them WAY TOO MUCH money. But whatever, worth it if it stays that way.

But about every week or two I completely randomly loose 30 relations with one or two of them. Just check "Character" "My Kingdom" "Lords" like I have been doing very paranoid recently before saving. And boom, relations to 70. WTF? I have bigger plans for my money than giving gifts to crybaby lords who are supposed be "Martial"... Is it a bug? Way to turn off this feature?

EDIT: I don't even get notification of relation drop or reason. Just happens completely at random and -30 at a time...

More information:
No quarrels between lords.
No shared love intrests(does it even matter?)
No fiefs were given while someone wanted someone else to have it
Kingdom pagan, I am pagan, all lords pagan, all lands mostly pagan.

I have searched all around and found nothing that is supposed to cause so huge relation drop for no reason.
 

kalarhan

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relations change for lots of reasons, and the entire system tends to balance (zero), so you can't raise relations with someone and expect it to stay there (as well your enemies will eventually make peace with you too).

the script that is responsible for this has a debug message included. To see it you need to enable cheat mode in the game. It is not recomended to do so on a normal campaign, so you should make a backup/copy and test on that save for a week or so.

to learn about modding and how to tweak your game visit the modding section. You can change pretty much anything you want, it only depends on how much time you want to invest on that.
 

BoomBap

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I will check the debug messages, but the only thing I found that would cause -30 relation drop is: "attack a vassal when not at war"
Loosing 30 relations with my own vassals at random seems more like a bug.
 

kalarhan

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BoomBap said:
seems more like a bug.
if you think something is not working as intended (a bug), and not just a feature you don't particular agree with (rules of the world), you can visit the support subforum and create a thread there.

remember to add all the necessary information (rgl_log.txt, savegame with the issue, description of the problem, your OS settings, and so on). Also remember that official support is only for vanilla (no mods, cheats or tweaks).
 

BoomBap

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That's why I'm asking. I don't know if it's a problem with my game or actually a feature. Hoping to get someone to confirm this. I recently ran into this drop again. I didn't manage to get a savegame before it happening so can't check debug messages. Hope to catch it soon. This didn't seem to happen when I just sat there with debug messages on. So it should be related to some action.(playing with debug messages is well... unplayable :razz: Even to constant "your village is under attack" message annoys the sh*t out of me :razz:)

I know the timeline when the last drop happened tho. The only meaningul action I did was rush in to aid villagers in one of my lords villages. If that causes -30 relations as a feature, then this is indeed a feature I don't like. I don't have any experience in modding or coding and mount and blade seems like a difficult game to start with as much as I have searched around.

If I can confirm this feature, would it be any use if I asked help about changing it in the modding section?
 

kalarhan

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BoomBap said:
If I can confirm this feature, would it be any use if I asked help about changing it in the modding section?
game code is available, which means you can change anything you like/want to. So yes, modding section can help.  In special if you want to learn how you can do this changes, instead of hoping someone will do them for you (that is how most modders start, with 1 little thingy they wanted)
 

AfLIcTeD

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There are a number of ways that you can lose relations with vassals, most you will know but some you may not.
One way that you may not know is because of rebellions. When a defeated faction tries to rebel, a random lord who has good relations with the king trying to rebel will lose relations with their current liege. This can be up to -30 relations. It used  to show a message in previous versions so you would know when a rebellion event happened and could also see relation loss along with it, but they must have removed it.

Another way is due to rivalries. If lords hate each other you can sometimes lose relations with them, they will claim that you favoured their rival. Even if you didn't.
 

BoomBap

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AfLIcTeD said:
There are a number of ways that you can lose relations with vassals, most you will know but some you may not.
One way that you may not know is because of rebellions. When a defeated faction tries to rebel, a random lord who has good relations with the king trying to rebel will lose relations with their current liege. This can be up to -30 relations. It used  to show a message in previous versions so you would know when a rebellion event happened and could also see relation loss along with it, but they must have removed it.

Another way is due to rivalries. If lords hate each other you can sometimes lose relations with them, they will claim that you favoured their rival. Even if you didn't.
Thanks. I have been checking relations every time before I save lately(very annoying) and it seems like a random dice roll for -30 relations. I keep all my relations at 100 and sometimes when I check 1 or 2 relations have dropped to 70(always 70, never less or more). When I then reload from savepoint, the drop won't happen. I guess rebellions are random also so you could have just hit the nail on the head.
I wouldn't mind if it dropped by like 5 points, but loosing 30 relations(translete to 30k peningas) for a random dice roll is just stupid. I hope someone can help me and point out what I should change in the game code to avoid that.
 

AfLIcTeD

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Go into simple triggers.txt and look for this part
30.000000  146 31 2 0 0 2170 3 1224979098644774912 1369094286720630785 360287970189639680 2110 2 1224979098644774912 10 2172 3 1224979098644774913 360287970189639680 3 2108 2 1224979098644774913 2 2110 2 1224979098644774913 10 2120 3 1224979098644774914 1224979098644774912 1224979098644774913 2136 3 1224979098644774915 10 22 4 0 1073741855 2 144115188075856185 1 2147483678 2 1224979098644774914 1224979098644774915 2136 3 1224979098644774916 432345564227567632 432345564227567653 4 0 31 2 144115188075856185 1 2272 1 72057594037927937 2335 2 1 1224979098644774916 1106 1 1585267068834414717 3 0 2147484190 3 1224979098644774916 21 0 2121 3 1224979098644774917 1224979098644774916 432345564227567632 2105 2 1224979098644774917 360287970189639991 2147484208 3 1224979098644774917 8 0 2133 2 1224979098644774915 0 2133 2 1224979098644774918 1 2133 2 1224979098644774919 0 2133 2 1224979098644774920 360287970189640144 6 3 1224979098644774921 360287970189639975 1224979098644774920 540 3 1224979098644774921 2 2 540 3 1224979098644774921 14 1224979098644774916 2173 2 1224979098644774922 1224979098644774921 33 3 1224979098644774922 432345564227567631 432345564227567653 2147483679 2 1224979098644774922 1224979098644774916 2133 2 1224979098644774923 0 6 3 1224979098644774924 648518346341351445 648518346341351564 541 3 1224979098644774924 7 1224979098644774921 2105 2 1224979098644774923 1 3 0 2136 3 1224979098644774915 1 4 4 0 32 2 1224979098644774923 0 2136 3 72057594037927936 -1 4 2105 2 72057594037927936 1224979098644774923 2105 2 1224979098644774915 72057594037927936 3 0 4 0 2147483678 2 1224979098644774915 7 4 0 2147483678 2 1224979098644774918 1224979098644774915 2133 2 1224979098644774918 1224979098644774915 3 0 5 0 522 3 1224979098644774925 1224979098644774922 11 1 3 936748722493063647 1224979098644774925 1224979098644774921 2133 2 1224979098644774926 72057594037927936 4 0 32 2 1224979098644774926 10 1107 1 0 1 4 936748722493063646 1224979098644774925 1224979098644774921 -30 1107 1 1 4 0 31 2 1224979098644774925 360287970189639680

The -30 is the relationship drop due to rebellions. I don't know if this affects the AI kingdoms and kings, but if your not bothered about factions returning then it would be ok to use this tweak.

If you don't want to use tweaks then the other way to stop the relationship drop is to not recruit the lords straight away and let them lose relations with their original king. Take the feifs of the lords that you want to keep and leave them with one that belongs to a lord you are not bothered about.
 

BoomBap

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AfLIcTeD said:
Go into simple triggers.txt...
If I change the "-30" to "-5" that would make the drop to be -5, right? I still want rebellions to happen. Too late to wait for lord relations to change. I'm already too far in the game. Thank you so much for looking this up for me, appreciate it! :wink:

EDIT: I changed the -30 to -5 and that indeed made the seemingly random drop be -5 instead of -30. Thank you so much! And it didn't affect rebellions, they still happen as usual. I will see what happens if I change it to 0 and report back.
 

qmax

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This issue is a severe limitation on playing and enjoying the game.  When it happens I just say, OK time to start over or play something else.  It is always 30 points and the same explanations are always given by responders and I have been complaining about it for a couple years at least.  Multiple updates have been released and nothing is ever done.  Whoever developed this mod is not a competent game designer if they put in things that affect the game with no rhyme or reason to them and no explanations or alerts or descriptions in some game manual.