Reinforcements Spawn Points Ruin Battles!!

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Rush09

Regular
How? Total War uses a Line of Sight mechanic -meaning the AI do not automatically know where other, hidden AI are until they are spotted. In Bannerlord -all AI know where all other AI are at ALL TIMES! Thats why i always state this game can have no historical frame of reference for any battle as just that one trait is paramount to military endeavors
True, this is one of the features in Bannerlord I really don't appreciate, it eliminates so many possible strategies in a battle
 
Hi all,

Time and again i've been drawn into a slug fest battle of attriton and limped away with a Phyrric victory that should've have been a lot more convincing (and a lot less expensive)
This is all because of the dumb spawn points for reinforcements.
I'm mid game and am part of the empire , we're kicking butt on all fronts I have three maxed out towns and can roam at will with a 1K army.

So , usually I out number my opponents...but the advantage of numbers is sometimes near nullifed by the stupid spawn points.
I recently had a battle with the Battanians where I had 1100 men and they had 750...I nearly lost because They camped on a hill and wouldn't move.
Fair enough they were out numbered so i had to advance further from my reinforcement spawn points , up to the enemy position which was also their spawn point.
So , I every time I killed 20 of theirs in melee they were instantly replaced where as my replacements were strung out in a long line all the way back to the edge of the map.

Eventually They ran out of men but I lost 650 mid/High tier troops to their conscripts all because there's were replaced instantly and mine weren't.

If you out number an opponent surely you must get advantage on replacement number and location? Or maybe even have a command to designate where you want your replacements to spawn??

Fig.
I think you raise a very good point.

under the current battle system, especially when you have large army battle (500+)
the attacker almost always suffer more disadvantage, since attacker will move positions forward and be far away from their respawn point
while defender can set archers loose formation and shoot you down when attacker approaching

and attacker AI have to retreat and get more reinforcement and come back attack again
Therefore, attacker is always suffer more, even attacker outnumber the defender

so the battle tactic just become so boring, as player, you always want to hold defense position, because it favor defender

I almost never attack enemy unless I outnumber them, and i am sure I can kill them all in one wave (meaning I don't have to wait for reinforcement )
 

Nogand

Recruit
I think you raise a very good point.

under the current battle system, especially when you have large army battle (500+)
the attacker almost always suffer more disadvantage, since attacker will move positions forward and be far away from their respawn point
while defender can set archers loose formation and shoot you down when attacker approaching

and attacker AI have to retreat and get more reinforcement and come back attack again
Therefore, attacker is always suffer more, even attacker outnumber the defender

so the battle tactic just become so boring, as player, you always want to hold defense position, because it favor defender

I almost never attack enemy unless I outnumber them, and i am sure I can kill them all in one wave (meaning I don't have to wait for reinforcement )
& if you retreat cheese to avoid this, it rerolls the terrain.
 

Figulus

Regular
I think you raise a very good point.

under the current battle system, especially when you have large army battle (500+)
the attacker almost always suffer more disadvantage, since attacker will move positions forward and be far away from their respawn point
while defender can set archers loose formation and shoot you down when attacker approaching

and attacker AI have to retreat and get more reinforcement and come back attack again
Therefore, attacker is always suffer more, even attacker outnumber the defender

so the battle tactic just become so boring, as player, you always want to hold defense position, because it favor defender

I almost never attack enemy unless I outnumber them, and i am sure I can kill them all in one wave (meaning I don't have to wait for reinforcement )
Exactly!
 

Madeloc

Recruit
Hi all,

Time and again i've been drawn into a slug fest battle of attriton and limped away with a Phyrric victory that should've have been a lot more convincing (and a lot less expensive)
This is all because of the dumb spawn points for reinforcements.
I'm mid game and am part of the empire , we're kicking butt on all fronts I have three maxed out towns and can roam at will with a 1K army.

So , usually I out number my opponents...but the advantage of numbers is sometimes near nullifed by the stupid spawn points.
I recently had a battle with the Battanians where I had 1100 men and they had 750...I nearly lost because They camped on a hill and wouldn't move.
Fair enough they were out numbered so i had to advance further from my reinforcement spawn points , up to the enemy position which was also their spawn point.
So , I every time I killed 20 of theirs in melee they were instantly replaced where as my replacements were strung out in a long line all the way back to the edge of the map.

Eventually They ran out of men but I lost 650 mid/High tier troops to their conscripts all because there's were replaced instantly and mine weren't.

If you out number an opponent surely you must get advantage on replacement number and location? Or maybe even have a command to designate where you want your replacements to spawn??

Fig.
Hello,

Completely agree with you.

You forgot the best of this :

Ennemy goes back from his spawn point. So the ennemy is back from his spawn points.
So you advance. So you are on, or past the spawn point.
And his knights spawn in the middle of your archers :razz:
Useless to make a drawing to explain you the result lol
This can almost result in a defeat : dumb player archers hitting only closest targets, they stop arrowing what they were supposed to kill and get killed by the reinforcements... anyway that resulted on irrevelant losses...

I think the spawn points should be dynamic instead of static, so if the ennemy goes back instead of forward, his reinforcements come close to his actual line of defense. And maybe adjusting the spawn point for the player or AI who has advanced a lot on the map.
 

mujadaddy

Regular
WB
Guys, you have GOT to be kidding here. Assume 100% of the enemy force is where the partial force spawns. Sure, you get caught up from time to time, but use some tactics, like taking the middle of the field instead of the back.
 
Guys, you have GOT to be kidding here. Assume 100% of the enemy force is where the partial force spawns. Sure, you get caught up from time to time, but use some tactics, like taking the middle of the field instead of the back.
I think the AI is random, sometimes they will initiate attack, sometimes they will hold back, sometimes they will come closer, and not moving

in this case, you just have to retreat, attack again, wait for the enemy to attack you, and let your loose archers to do all the works

this is like WW1, any attackers will suffer more causality because machine gun (archers in this case) can bust your ass easily
so defenders with archers is always the winners
 
I agree with others who have said that there should be a Total War system, where the reinforcements come in from the map's edge. I disagree with the notion that only a fraction of the army should fight each other and the result of that fight should be carried across the whole battle.
 
are we talking about reinforcements or respawn points for current army ????? two totally different things.

Respawns should happen where the commander is located !! YES flexible respawn point.

Reinforcements should happen at map edge .. AND keep their formation, not running single file to death.

.
 
I think the AI is random, sometimes they will initiate attack, sometimes they will hold back, sometimes they will come closer, and not moving

in this case, you just have to retreat, attack again, wait for the enemy to attack you, and let your loose archers to do all the works

this is like WW1, any attackers will suffer more causality because machine gun (archers in this case) can bust your ass easily
so defenders with archers is always the winners
Its not random, its 100% deterministic. However highground is ATM manually decided for each map by the map artist and sometimes its set extremely badly behind spawn /reinforce point - hence AI retreating to the back of the map (when other side got advantage etc) and reinfrocing into middle of enemy army.
 
Its not random, its 100% deterministic. However highground is ATM manually decided for each map by the map artist and sometimes its set extremely badly behind spawn /reinforce point - hence AI retreating to the back of the map (when other side got advantage etc) and reinfrocing into middle of enemy army.
yeah I agree, I have seen enemy somehow form a circle formation in the middle of river, like literally in the river
why you would form formation in river?? why???

so all I have to do is fire archers on them, it's plain slaughter, its not even fun to watch it anymore
 
yeah I agree, I have seen enemy somehow form a circle formation in the middle of river, like literally in the river
why you would form formation in river?? why???

so all I have to do is fire archers on them, it's plain slaughter, its not even fun to watch it anymore
Circle formation is absolutely disfunctional, its removal was one of the first features of RBM actually. I guess its "good" for those epic videos on Youtube where you pretend like there is some reason for it and its brave defense or something, but generally even with vanilla balance straight charge or shieldwall with charge is preferrable to this formation.
 
Circle formation is absolutely disfunctional, its removal was one of the first features of RBM actually. I guess its "good" for those epic videos on Youtube where you pretend like there is some reason for it and its brave defense or something, but generally even with vanilla balance straight charge or shieldwall with charge is preferrable to this formation.
I have found use for circle formation in some situations. Usually when attacked by horse archers, I put my guys in circle formation and the shields soak up all their arrows.
 
This spawn issue is even more pronounced during a siege. If you're roughly equal to or only slightly greater in numbers than the enemy, they start the siege outnumbering. And as they kill your men, your men are running from near the edge of the map to assault the walls. I've had to pull back my assault force and let them gather strength and then make another assault. Even if I win, I lose a lot of soldiers. But I don't think that's far from realistic for a medieval army assaulting well defended walls. It just plays out awkwardly because of the way spawning occurs.
 

amaromarn

Recruit
part of the issue is that all units in a formation follow the same logic. if you stick your infantry into any of the "tight" formations they slow down. this includes those troops reinforcing your lines from all the way across the map. its also what leads troops to get caught on eachother when you tell them to assume shield wall formation exposing their back as they endlessly attempt to crawl their way to their new assigned position. troops told to assume a specific location should always run to get to it as fast as they can unless some other condition is met like enemy troop within x units or projectile came within x units recently.
 

Figulus

Regular
I think you raise a very good point.

under the current battle system, especially when you have large army battle (500+)
the attacker almost always suffer more disadvantage, since attacker will move positions forward and be far away from their respawn point
while defender can set archers loose formation and shoot you down when attacker approaching

and attacker AI have to retreat and get more reinforcement and come back attack again
Therefore, attacker is always suffer more, even attacker outnumber the defender

so the battle tactic just become so boring, as player, you always want to hold defense position, because it favor defender

I almost never attack enemy unless I outnumber them, and i am sure I can kill them all in one wave (meaning I don't have to wait for reinforcement )
Exactly!
 

Figulus

Regular
Hello,

Completely agree with you.

You forgot the best of this :

Ennemy goes back from his spawn point. So the ennemy is back from his spawn points.
So you advance. So you are on, or past the spawn point.
*And his knights spawn in the middle of your archers :razz:*
Useless to make a drawing to explain you the result lol
This can almost result in a defeat : dumb player archers hitting only closest targets, they stop arrowing what they were supposed to kill and get killed by the reinforcements... anyway that resulted on irrevelant losses...

I think the spawn points should be dynamic instead of static, so if the ennemy goes back instead of forward, his reinforcements come close to his actual line of defense. And maybe adjusting the spawn point for the player or AI who has advanced a lot on the map.
Right! Soo annoying.
 

Madeloc

Recruit
I've found the way fix to this - at the moment - which is poor, just as the game is at the moment too.
It is CTRL-ALT-F4, when I see that reinforcements are a non-sense and I start to lose troops I shouldn't lose (when I outnumber the ennemy the more often).
That's a poor method, uninteresting at most, but it is equal to what the game gives us in terms of pleasure. So I use cheats to fix the inconsistancies and stupidities of the game - at the moment. Hope it will be fixed soon.
ATM trying to make battles less than 1000 so as to avoid these warts...
 

amaromarn

Recruit
i think it would be an interesting mechanic to play around if they came from edge of map and if the ai were better at recognizing that they have pushed into the opponents spawn.
 

Fithos

Recruit
Ya, we all wait for spawnline relative to the line of skrimmage. But my faith in Taleworlds is close to zero.

You have to shoot them with arrows until they lost enough to make them charge. Hold fire, end shield wall and run back to your half of the field. Now you are the one with the good spawn location.

Does not work when you attack an besieging army. Empty your arrows on them, retreat, attack again.
 
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