Reinforcements Spawn Points Ruin Battles!!

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Julio-Claudian

Knight at Arms
Yes exactly what i was thinking - wonder why this cant be done? Also if they gave reinforcements a better "AI brain" with which how to best approach entering the Battlefield arena -for instance dont just march in blindly to your death -try differing formations and entry tactics depending on what your up against and precisely where the majority of the enemy troops are
There was once a mod which sort of did this. Groups of reinforcements would spawn at the edge of the map and behave as their own formation until they reached the main formation. If it was a separate party reinforcing the direction from which they entered the battle map would correspond to the party's position on the main map in relation to the battle. It was pretty cool. That mod is long gone though. But I guess it means it isn't impossible to do something like that.
 

froggyluv

Grandmaster Knight
NW
There was once a mod which sort of did this. Groups of reinforcements would spawn at the edge of the map and behave as their own formation until they reached the main formation. If it was a separate party reinforcing the direction from which they entered the battle map would correspond to the party's position on the main map in relation to the battle. It was pretty cool. That mod is long gone though. But I guess it means it isn't impossible to do something like that.

Ahh yes -Reinforcements Mod! Totally forgot that was easily one of my early favorites. Was even cooler because it detected nearby Allies/Enemies off the World map and added them to the battle thru a timer depending how far away they were
 

Julio-Claudian

Knight at Arms
Ahh yes -Reinforcements Mod! Totally forgot that was easily one of my early favorites. Was even cooler because it detected nearby Allies/Enemies off the World map and added them to the battle thru a timer depending how far away they were
Yeah that one. I remember thinking I was about to win a battle only for a whole new party to enter the field at my rear, forcing me to retreat. Fun scenarios like that.
 

Figulus

Regular
Information dump.
Spawn "points" are actually spawn lines. They go from relative border of a map deeper into map. Larger the battle, closer to the border the spawns are. However even the most distant spawn is still like 50 metres before the map border, so troops never arrive from "behind the map" but they spawn out of thin air. Also spawn points and respawn points are the same! And as you mentioned troops are reinforcing in small groups, this is one thing that is moddable at the moment and we increased the minimal size of reinforcements (its something like 100-200 instead of vanilla 10-20 when its 500 vs 500 I think) in order to have few big battles in large engagement instead of constant little reinforcement that screw with the formation position constantly.

But I would really suggest different reinforcement point than spawn point - just put reinforcement point right behind the border of the map so it feels morel like reinforcements and less like teleporting into middle of enemy formation.
Thanks for the info! Good suggestion.
 

Figulus

Regular
Having a Total War type of entry for reinforcements (soldiers that haven't yet spawn) in big battles would be very cool. Increase the amount of soldiers needed for a new group to spawn and who knows, a losing side could use that new batch of soldiers to turn the tides. As it is now, the soldiers spawning right in the middle of the melee get immediately destroyed adding little to the battle.
Aye , I remember the total war way of doing it, a much smoother transition methinks.
 
There was once a mod which sort of did this. Groups of reinforcements would spawn at the edge of the map and behave as their own formation until they reached the main formation. If it was a separate party reinforcing the direction from which they entered the battle map would correspond to the party's position on the main map in relation to the battle. It was pretty cool. That mod is long gone though. But I guess it means it isn't impossible to do something like that.

This solution would clash with eny kind of battle where more than 5 formations exist in one moment (1 infantry, 1 archer, 1 HA + 2 cav formations for example).
 

Julio-Claudian

Knight at Arms
This solution would clash with eny kind of battle where more than 5 formations exist in one moment (1 infantry, 1 archer, 1 HA + 2 cav formations for example).
It actually didn't. If I remember correctly they weren't added to an existing group, they'd behave as though they were a separate party until they reached the main group then they'd merge. I wish the mod page was still there, it's hidden I think.

I guess it did something similar to the mod 'Generals Bodyguards' which creates an 'invisible' group that follows you around. Was about to link it but that has also been set to hidden, think 1.6.1 broke it.
 
But I would really suggest different reinforcement point than spawn point - just put reinforcement point right behind the border of the map so it feels morel like reinforcements and less like teleporting into middle of enemy formation.
Total war does this. I think this might be the best option, if it's possible. Just don't spawn troops only to slaughter them.
 

Lesbosisles

Knight
Total war does this. I think this might be the best option, if it's possible. Just don't spawn troops only to slaughter them.
This. It's a simple yet good solution that won't make your troops ended up surrounded and cut from the others not because you've made a tactical mistake, but because a local wizard teleported a party right behind your backs.

Also, for sieges only, it would've been nice to have a dynamic spawn points: defenders spawn near the wall and have to climb it at the beginning of the siege, then, in case the attackers have broken the gates and taken over the walls, the spawn points for defenders move further and further into town (you can even place some archers at the rooftops to make things harder for the attackers). Then, when there's nowhere else to move the spawn points, the defenders should stand their grounds until they flee to the keep.

Such system may prevent nowadays situations, when the attackers have taken over the walls, yet the defenders just mindlessly climb up the walls again and again just to be slaughtered on the stairs, because there are thousands of the attackers on the wall already.
 
It actually didn't. If I remember correctly they weren't added to an existing group, they'd behave as though they were a separate party until they reached the main group then they'd merge. I wish the mod page was still there, it's hidden I think.

I guess it did something similar to the mod 'Generals Bodyguards' which creates an 'invisible' group that follows you around. Was about to link it but that has also been set to hidden, think 1.6.1 broke it.
I meant that there is 8 formatins limit per army. If there are 5 active and 4 reinforcing (1 inf, 1 arch, 1 cav and 1 HA) we end up with 9 formations.
 

vonbalt

Sergeant Knight
WBNWVCM&B
Ahh yes -Reinforcements Mod! Totally forgot that was easily one of my early favorites. Was even cooler because it detected nearby Allies/Enemies off the World map and added them to the battle thru a timer depending how far away they were
damn that awesome! let me guess, another sadly dead mod? the graveyard keeps getting larger and larger :cry:
 

Endar Croz

Recruit
Hi all,

Time and again i've been drawn into a slug fest battle of attriton and limped away with a Phyrric victory that should've have been a lot more convincing (and a lot less expensive)
This is all because of the dumb spawn points for reinforcements.
I'm mid game and am part of the empire , we're kicking butt on all fronts I have three maxed out towns and can roam at will with a 1K army.

So , usually I out number my opponents...but the advantage of numbers is sometimes near nullifed by the stupid spawn points.
I recently had a battle with the Battanians where I had 1100 men and they had 750...I nearly lost because They camped on a hill and wouldn't move.
Fair enough they were out numbered so i had to advance further from my reinforcement spawn points , up to the enemy position which was also their spawn point.
So , I every time I killed 20 of theirs in melee they were instantly replaced where as my replacements were strung out in a long line all the way back to the edge of the map.

Eventually They ran out of men but I lost 650 mid/High tier troops to their conscripts all because there's were replaced instantly and mine weren't.

If you out number an opponent surely you must get advantage on replacement number and location? Or maybe even have a command to designate where you want your replacements to spawn??

Fig.
+1 totally agree with you

when you want to choose a tactical advantage in the landscape - the enemy kills your reinforcements or, as you said in your example, your reinforcement takes too long and you lose the advantage

another example, I learned how to make the enemy move his position to the left or right of his reinforcement points, put archers there and just shoot the enemy's reinforcements for free
 
Such system may prevent nowadays situations, when the attackers have taken over the walls, yet the defenders just mindlessly climb up the walls again and again just to be slaughtered on the stairs, because there are thousands of the attackers on the wall already.
Yep, there is so much to fix in this game at a fundamental level... I hope devs can fix all of the major issues and don't release the game if they aren't fixed.
They only have one chance at making the game shine again at release, let's not fuhck that up.
Not only that but after release I fear that some very important fixes just won't happen.
 

Nogand

Recruit
Is there any penalty to simply retreating whenever the respawn wave hits you? There's no morale or casualty cost, only thing I can think of is if loot is only gained from the last encounter. If so you could replicate what happens in Warband, where big battles were split into multiple encounters, thus making the respawn issue less glaring.
 

Figulus

Regular
+1 totally agree with you

when you want to choose a tactical advantage in the landscape - the enemy kills your reinforcements or, as you said in your example, your reinforcement takes too long and you lose the advantage

another example, I learned how to make the enemy move his position to the left or right of his reinforcement points, put archers there and just shoot the enemy's reinforcements for free
Aye , another way to move them is to lead your horse archers (assuming you have such) around behind them and take out a few cav from behind.Eventually the enemy infantry advances on your line.Takes time though..and patience.
 
okay, my friend, let me teach you a new trick,
always always choose to defense, and let the enemy to come forward and attack you
You place archers loose formation in front, infantry at back, horsemen on left
your archers will shoot down most enemy when they come closer
infantry push up and kill enemy, but don't push too far to their spawn points, wait for them to keep coming toward to you

if your enemy didn't come toward to you, you retreat and reload the battle again, they will come to you at some point

you win battle 100% all the time
check out the result of using this tatic, HUGE win rates , do the math
your archers will do most damage and reduce enemy morale, so they will just run away hahahahahah

 
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