Reinforcements Spawn Points Ruin Battles!!

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Figulus

Regular
Hi all,

Time and again i've been drawn into a slug fest battle of attriton and limped away with a Phyrric victory that should've have been a lot more convincing (and a lot less expensive)
This is all because of the dumb spawn points for reinforcements.
I'm mid game and am part of the empire , we're kicking butt on all fronts I have three maxed out towns and can roam at will with a 1K army.

So , usually I out number my opponents...but the advantage of numbers is sometimes near nullifed by the stupid spawn points.
I recently had a battle with the Battanians where I had 1100 men and they had 750...I nearly lost because They camped on a hill and wouldn't move.
Fair enough they were out numbered so i had to advance further from my reinforcement spawn points , up to the enemy position which was also their spawn point.
So , I every time I killed 20 of theirs in melee they were instantly replaced where as my replacements were strung out in a long line all the way back to the edge of the map.

Eventually They ran out of men but I lost 650 mid/High tier troops to their conscripts all because there's were replaced instantly and mine weren't.

If you out number an opponent surely you must get advantage on replacement number and location? Or maybe even have a command to designate where you want your replacements to spawn??

Fig.
 
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+1 Totally Agree.

I've moved my entire army back to a hill only to find my reinforcements being spawned BEHIND the enemy !!!!! I wondered why the enemy turned around and fled from my defensive line ..then I saw my new troops far off in the distance ... UG!!

The only short term fix is to increase your max soldiers per battle.

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hruza

Knight at Arms
Spawning is proportionate to the overall ratio as far as I can tell, therefore if you outnumber your enemy, your spawn "limit" will also outnumber theirs. You will have more troops on the battlefield on average.

Problem is, that reinforcements come in waves and geography also get's in to a way. If you fought your way to the enemy spawn point, you may suddenly find yourself outnumbered because enemy reinforcements spawn right were the fight is.

Unfortunately there is no way to avoid it unless you want to put hard limit on to an army that would be equal to a battlefield limit. I did not see anybody offering viable alternative to this mechanics, therefore you simply have to account for it, keep track of overall numbers and keep your forces back until the last reinforcement wave spawns. Common mistake players do is to go on full pursuit after initial engagement is won only to have their troops run piecemeal in to fresh enemy reinforcements far away from own spawn point.

This is an old issue that existed already in the first MB.
 

Antaeus

Sergeant at Arms
The trick is to advance. Even if it is just a few metres. Consider anything behind you as lava. No matter how appealing the terrain is. And never advance too far so that you're to close to their reinforcements. No matter how appealing it is to run down the enemy who are reassembling Practice battlefield discipline.

It would be nice though, to have more granular control over the sequence of reinforcements. It's not high on my wants list and doesn't seem like something that might be resolved by the devs, but it is a basic function of generalship to be able to manage how your units deploy to the front. It's like every battle is an ambush and you get what you can find at the last second...
 

Maximum997

Squire
So , I every time I killed 20 of theirs in melee they were instantly replaced where as my replacements were strung out in a long line all the way back to the edge of the map.
Thats why melee infantry is useless crap and you need to play archer heavy army to be that camper guy and abuse that system for yourself.

Sadly, but it is how the game works
 

Figulus

Regular
The trick is to advance. Even if it is just a few metres. Consider anything behind you as lava. No matter how appealing the terrain is. And never advance too far so that you're to close to their reinforcements. No matter how appealing it is to run down the enemy who are reassembling Practice battlefield discipline.

It would be nice though, to have more granular control over the sequence of reinforcements. It's not high on my wants list and doesn't seem like something that might be resolved by the devs, but it is a basic function of generalship to be able to manage how your units deploy to the front. It's like every battle is an ambush and you get what you can find at the last second...
Yep , ya may be right!
 
Wish that the spawns were chained to be "X" in-game meters / yards behind the captains of your formations (with logic to catch if they're out of bounds) - obviously the spawn meshing is pretty well thought out since you can get in so many across a variety, just needs to be accounted for.

Really the only way I've found to avoid this is baiting the defending force - they'll almost always encircle a high ground - but if you kill their HAs and cav on their flanks they'll typically come down and meet you. Then it'll turn to the normal meat grinder with small cavalry actions on the wings.

As an aside, this is one of the many reinforcement-related threads I've seen in the last week, I think that is good so hopefully someone takes notice on the TW Dev side.
 

Maximum997

Squire
Wish that the spawns were chained to be "X" in-game meters / yards behind the captains of your formations (with logic to catch if they're out of bounds) - obviously the spawn meshing is pretty well thought out since you can get in so many across a variety, just needs to be accounted for.
Yes. And they need some huge Standart that shows "SPAWN IS HERE"
 

Octanoz

Regular
I always felt like the spawn points should be dependent on the aggression and advantage of the player. When the spawn points are static you are always going to get spanked for advancing because your reinforcements take longer to get there. So when you're on their half of the battlefield, and your guys are killing more than they're dying, the enemy spawns should come from behind them, not behind you and your spawns should be a lot closer to your army instead of staying at the initial spawn point and having to walk 2 mins before they get to the fight.

Also with specs changing your experience this has to be addressed. The more troops need to spawn in, the worse your victory gets.
 

Figulus

Regular
Wish that the spawns were chained to be "X" in-game meters / yards behind the captains of your formations (with logic to catch if they're out of bounds) - obviously the spawn meshing is pretty well thought out since you can get in so many across a variety, just needs to be accounted for.

Really the only way I've found to avoid this is baiting the defending force - they'll almost always encircle a high ground - but if you kill their HAs and cav on their flanks they'll typically come down and meet you. Then it'll turn to the normal meat grinder with small cavalry actions on the wings.

As an aside, this is one of the many reinforcement-related threads I've seen in the last week, I think that is good so hopefully someone takes notice on the TW Dev side.
One hopes!
 

Figulus

Regular
I always felt like the spawn points should be dependent on the aggression and advantage of the player. When the spawn points are static you are always going to get spanked for advancing because your reinforcements take longer to get there. So when you're on their half of the battlefield, and your guys are killing more than they're dying, the enemy spawns should come from behind them, not behind you and your spawns should be a lot closer to your army instead of staying at the initial spawn point and having to walk 2 mins before they get to the fight.

Also with specs changing your experience this has to be addressed. The more troops need to spawn in, the worse your victory gets.
Exactly.
 
Information dump.
Spawn "points" are actually spawn lines. They go from relative border of a map deeper into map. Larger the battle, closer to the border the spawns are. However even the most distant spawn is still like 50 metres before the map border, so troops never arrive from "behind the map" but they spawn out of thin air. Also spawn points and respawn points are the same! And as you mentioned troops are reinforcing in small groups, this is one thing that is moddable at the moment and we increased the minimal size of reinforcements (its something like 100-200 instead of vanilla 10-20 when its 500 vs 500 I think) in order to have few big battles in large engagement instead of constant little reinforcement that screw with the formation position constantly.

But I would really suggest different reinforcement point than spawn point - just put reinforcement point right behind the border of the map so it feels morel like reinforcements and less like teleporting into middle of enemy formation.
 

Rush09

Regular
Having a Total War type of entry for reinforcements (soldiers that haven't yet spawn) in big battles would be very cool. Increase the amount of soldiers needed for a new group to spawn and who knows, a losing side could use that new batch of soldiers to turn the tides. As it is now, the soldiers spawning right in the middle of the melee get immediately destroyed adding little to the battle.
 
But I would really suggest different reinforcement point than spawn point - just put reinforcement point right behind the border of the map so it feels morel like reinforcements and less like teleporting into middle of enemy formation.
Awesome data dump.

I agree with this, if all reinforcements came from afar we wouldn't have the current issue of them materializing in front of you like Vex in Destiny 1, and it would give you a lot more room to maneuver your main force / reinforcements.

I also like the ability to increase the reinforcements so they all come in together in one wave - hopefully that would be announced via a banner, both for you and the enemy (if your Tactics or Scouting is high enough) so you can react appropriately.
 

froggyluv

Grandmaster Knight
NW
Having a Total War type of entry for reinforcements (soldiers that haven't yet spawn) in big battles would be very cool. Increase the amount of soldiers needed for a new group to spawn and who knows, a losing side could use that new batch of soldiers to turn the tides. As it is now, the soldiers spawning right in the middle of the melee get immediately destroyed adding little to the battle.

Yes exactly what i was thinking - wonder why this cant be done? Also if they gave reinforcements a better "AI brain" with which how to best approach entering the Battlefield arena -for instance dont just march in blindly to your death -try differing formations and entry tactics depending on what your up against and precisely where the majority of the enemy troops are
 
Yes exactly what i was thinking - wonder why this cant be done? Also if they gave reinforcements a better "AI brain" with which how to best approach entering the Battlefield arena -for instance dont just march in blindly to your death -try differing formations and entry tactics depending on what your up against and precisely where the majority of the enemy troops are
Well they are working on the new terrain system. My assumption is that if rework of reinforcements happen it will be once the new system is finished.
 
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