NW Completed Regiments firing out of formation

[KillerMongoose]

People are misinterpreting the point of this thread. It's not whether or not regiments should be allowed to do it or not, it's about having a rule be enforced because regiments that actually obey the rules get ****ed by regiments that blatantly disregard them and it just ruins the experience. When it happens to my men and they ask if we should do it back to them I tell them no, for 2 reasons. 1. because I know that as soon as I did it some admin would finally take notice and we'd get in trouble  and 2. I tell them "If we're going to die we're not going to die as rule-breaking cowards. And besides, if we kill them all it's all the more great of a victory." 

I think a good idea would be to make sure regiment leaders know and understand the rules before they apply for a linebattle (in which the rule applies to of course since it apparently doesn't exist in some linebattles) and if they are caught firing out of formation they should be warned once, if they do it again then the leader gets kicked, if they do it a third time then they just get booted from the LB.

That's just my idea though, in the end it's up to 1. the Regiment leaders to control their men and 2. the administrators who have the final say in what goes on, after all it is their server.

 

[dan1993uk]

The 92nd only enforces no firing out of formation rules in events where that is the rules, which as far as i know only our Thursday event enforces it, this is the only day we use that rule, any and all other line battles that we take part in we do use no firing out of formation rules (unless specified).

The fact of the matter is, is that firing out of formation or before the whole line has formed up is simply more effective, if my line is firing before yours and I kill 5 guys before you fire then that's 5 shots that are not coming towards my line. So in 1v1 battle especially this rule will likely never change because the regiments want to win.

If you want people to stop firing out of formation you will need to host your own event to enforce the rules because I highly doubt any current event will change because its such a huge part of the line battles.

it's about having a rule be enforced because regiments that actually obey the rules get ****ed by regiments that blatantly disregard them and it just ruins the experience.

You are making it seem like the event organisers are saying no shooting out of formation, but i just checked all of the topics for EU events and the only one that specifies this is the 92nd one. you are condemning people for doing something that is completely within the rules, just because you want it that way.

 

[KillerMongoose]

To clarify a point you made in your post

The fact of the matter is, is that firing out of formation or before the whole line has formed up is simply more effective

So pretend with me for a moment, regiments should be allowed to fire out of formation even if there was a rule against it? So then by that logic lets just let Infantry form skirmish lines and crouch. It's against the rules but who cares right? It's more effective than standing in a line anyway right?

Also the Tuesday and Friday line battles both clearly state

-Soldiers should only fire their muskets while in a properly spaced line formation, or risk being slain with no warning.

The rule for the Saturday line battle is a little more vague but says

> Stand in a line

So it is against the rules therefor the rule should either be enforced or just removed so that all the Good Guy Gregs out there can have a fighting chance.

 

[Moogs]

I think you have misunderstood that rule for the Saturday LB.
You can fire when you are charging.

Also, the Sunday EU battle enforces the "no firing out of formation" rule.

 

[Colnel. William Tavington]

It's effective, so why not use it? If the event allows it we always fire in a charge, hell we even train point blanking. :3

 

[KillerMongoose]

That's lovely and all but there are more battles than just the Saturday one ya know  and some of these battles don't allow it, I was referring to the ones that don't allow it. Something many of the people replying here seem to forget.

 

[Hekko]

During my 1 year-ish of LBing in MM/NW firing during the charge has been the norm and events where it was disallowed were rather extraordinary. Which is why "firing out of formation" as a blanket rule to stop firing during the charge is confusing to say the least.

I don't see why such a rule should be introduced either since it creates alot of lawyering around the implementation, not to mention promoting a static and defensive playstyle. None of these effects are desirable.

 

[dan1993uk]

So pretend with me for a moment, regiments should be allowed to fire out of formation even if there was a rule against it? So then by that logic lets just let Infantry form skirmish lines and crouch. It's against the rules but who cares right? It's more effective than standing in a line anyway right?

Well your taking what I said and turning it, if a regiment starts to fire as soon as the 1st guy stops, its effectively ripple fire. And its not about line playing is loose formation, this is just a basic rule run by all line battles, whereas what your moaining about only run by a few.

Also the Tuesday and Friday line battles both clearly state

-Soldiers should only fire their muskets while in a properly spaced line formation, or risk being slain with no warning.

I did say i checked EU ones.

and this is from the 32nd sunday battle "- Is only allowed to fire weapons in formation (So no firing when charging)" It does not disallow shooting before you line has completely formed, it only disallows shooting while charging.

The rule for the Saturday line battle is a little more vague but says

> Stand in a line

So it is against the rules therefor the rule should either be enforced or just removed so that all the Good Guy Gregs out there can have a fighting chance.

The rule once again does not disallow shooting while not fully formed, your reading it completely wrong it says nothing about firing at all.

This whole thread is pointless, its not going to change anyone rules and like I said if you want to play with that rule set MAKE YOUR OWN EVENT.

During my 1 year-ish of LBing in MM/NW firing during the charge has been the norm and events where it was disallowed were rather extraordinary. Which is why "firing out of formation" as a blanket rule to stop firing during the charge is confusing to say the least.

I don't see why such a rule should be introduced either since it creates alot of lawyering around the implementation, not to mention promoting a static and defensive playstyle. None of these effects are desirable.

+1

 

[Kator Viridian]

That's lovely and all but there are more battles than just the Saturday one ya know  and some of these battles don't allow it, I was referring to the ones that don't allow it. Something many of the people replying here seem to forget.

I can name around 3 EU line battles that do not use that rule set;

Friday line battle hosted by Yuki (http://forums.taleworlds.com/index.php/topic,225712.0.html)
Saturday line battle hosted by Crusader, Wolfstar and Moogs on various servers (http://forums.taleworlds.com/index.php/topic,222751.0.html)
Monday public line battle hosted by Wolfstar (http://forums.taleworlds.com/index.php/topic,222771.0.html)

And for mention the last saturday line battle had over 700 people applying with their regiments, so its not like the rule not being there is unpopular. (All 700 people were catered for in getting a server I beleive).

I don't think it is in the majorities interest to have that rule set in place, also for admins its a right ball ache to do ... especially when admins at the moment use admin horses instead of spectator to get around with.

To clarify a point you made in your post

The fact of the matter is, is that firing out of formation or before the whole line has formed up is simply more effective

So pretend with me for a moment, regiments should be allowed to fire out of formation even if there was a rule against it? So then by that logic lets just let Infantry form skirmish lines and crouch. It's against the rules but who cares right? It's more effective than standing in a line anyway right?

Also the Tuesday and Friday line battles both clearly state

-Soldiers should only fire their muskets while in a properly spaced line formation, or risk being slain with no warning.

The rule for the Saturday line battle is a little more vague but says

> Stand in a line

So it is against the rules therefor the rule should either be enforced or just removed so that all the Good Guy Gregs out there can have a fighting chance.

People will obey the rule if it is there and if its not won't obey it, thats quite the simplicity of it, if you are having problems like you stated of rule breakers then tell the admin ... there is no need to make a thread about what people think when its quite clear they will obey it if its there and want rule breakers to be punished.

I'll re-iterate in a simpler format;

Rule breaking = tell and admin no need to make a thread.
Rule not there = No need to complain or tell an admin.
Rule there = Obey it

Easy as pie.

 

[KillerMongoose]

A couple things.

1. You're all referencing EU battles, I'm talking about all the battles that do not allow it.
2. Some of you are saying "just because it says no firing out of formation doesn't mean you can't fire while charging" but...that's exactly what it means, unless you are charging in a flying V or you can charge in a line (something most regiments can't/don't do) then it's not in formation, therefore, firing while charging would be illegal under any other circumstances
3. I'm not asking that it be made a universal rule, I'm simply suggesting that the line battles that do have it as a rule either enforce it or remove it from the rules, you're all misunderstanding me

 

[Kator Viridian]

A couple things.

1. You're all referencing EU battles, I'm talking about all the battles that do not allow it.
2. Some of you are saying "just because it says no firing out of formation doesn't mean you can't fire while charging" but...that's exactly what it means, unless you are charging in a flying V or you can charge in a line (something most regiments can't/don't do) then it's not in formation, therefore, firing while charging would be illegal under any other circumstances
3. I'm not asking that it be made a universal rule, I'm simply suggesting that the line battles that do have it as a rule either enforce it or remove it from the rules, you're all misunderstanding me

Then talk to the Administrators of the Events, quite simple really, talking to people on here who really don't care will not solve the qualms you have.

Also once again if you see something happen against the rules then simply contact the administrators of the event.

Wether or not you want it removing for people not playing by it or not, both of the issues can be solved with the above options.

 

[jros83]

A couple things.

1. You're all referencing EU battles, I'm talking about all the battles that do not allow it.
2. Some of you are saying "just because it says no firing out of formation doesn't mean you can't fire while charging" but...that's exactly what it means, unless you are charging in a flying V or you can charge in a line (something most regiments can't/don't do) then it's not in formation, therefore, firing while charging would be illegal under any other circumstances
3. I'm not asking that it be made a universal rule, I'm simply suggesting that the line battles that do have it as a rule either enforce it or remove it from the rules, you're all misunderstanding me

Then talk to the Administrators of the Events, quite simple really, talking to people on here who really don't care will not solve the qualms you have.

Also once again if you see something happen against the rules then simply contact the administrators of the event.

Wether or not you want it removing for people not playing by it or not, both of the issues can be solved with the above options.

sounds like sour grapes since he pointed out you weren't looking broad enough.

so you concede the point then? about charging and firing out of line?

all he ever said really was that if it is a rule on a certain server, then it should be enforced. if it won't be enforced, then it should not be a rule.

 

[Kator Viridian]

A couple things.

1. You're all referencing EU battles, I'm talking about all the battles that do not allow it.
2. Some of you are saying "just because it says no firing out of formation doesn't mean you can't fire while charging" but...that's exactly what it means, unless you are charging in a flying V or you can charge in a line (something most regiments can't/don't do) then it's not in formation, therefore, firing while charging would be illegal under any other circumstances
3. I'm not asking that it be made a universal rule, I'm simply suggesting that the line battles that do have it as a rule either enforce it or remove it from the rules, you're all misunderstanding me

Then talk to the Administrators of the Events, quite simple really, talking to people on here who really don't care will not solve the qualms you have.

Also once again if you see something happen against the rules then simply contact the administrators of the event.

Wether or not you want it removing for people not playing by it or not, both of the issues can be solved with the above options.

sounds like sour grapes since he pointed out you weren't looking broad enough.

so you concede the point then? about charging and firing out of line?

all he ever said really was that if it is a rule on a certain server, then it should be enforced. if it won't be enforced, then it should not be a rule.

Yeh I agree with that but bashing it out to everyone in every post dosn't get your point across as brilliantly as you like, also if you noticed in my second post I said all of this ... again ... and now again ... see what I mean i'm kinda proving my own point here.

The Admins put it in wether they can enforce it or not is another thing, the only way it will get solved is by going to the admin themselves, probably the points your referencing are for someone who might not even be reading the thread.

Tbh people rule break all the time, still dosn't ruin the fun of the line battle unless its something stupid like 1 guy splitting off from a reg and stabbing your line in the back kinda thing but charging and firing is hardly noticeable, most regiments fire then charge anyway, I personally never see it as a big issue at all, its been there from the start of line battles and hasn't ruined the fun of it all.

As long as the majority keep by "If its in the rules don't break it" you'll eventually weed out those that do rule break .... which kinda brings me back onto my points again ... think someone is rule breaking and you don't like it? ... tell an admin of the event.

Will leave with my usual .... beans.