SP - General Regarding quests and companions, and the writing of this game

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Gremgoblin

Recruit
First of all, I want to state that I have my fair share of issues with this game that are not related to the quests or the companions or any of the features that are in the game currently, but rather those that are not in the game. My reason for mentioning this is that I think this game provides a really great framework for the future and it definitely is a game that can, provided enough work goes into it, become a really amazing game that we will talk about for years to come, on the scale of TES: Morrowind, for example.

However one thing that I have noticed is that the quests and companions really need some work. It's definitely not gamebreaking in any capacity and obviously, on the scale of priorities for what to work on, this is rather low on that scale. But once the game is stable enough and the issues that are making the game unplayable are fixed, this really should be taken into account and preferably fast.

  • First of all, the quests lack character. It is surprising to me because this was the case in Warband too but at least we had variety in quests then. Now, we have 5 village elders who all lost their daughters somehow. It's like some sort of neo-feminist uprising (great idea for a plotline in the empire somewhere) where women decide to run off with unsuitable spouses to anger their father. But after rescuing the fifth damsel in not-so-much distress for a juicy 1650 denars, it's getting a little stale. Especially when the barter system is so entirely .. weird that I'd prefer not using it at all at this point. "Your father loves you, that's why he made those plans!" "Hmmm.. I see, go on," "Think of your family!" "Yes.. you're right, I will go back home." Meanwhile this Chud of a guy that she ran off with kinda just stands there and doesn't even interject or argue, he just kinda goes ''well ok then''. Where's the drama? Where's the heart wrenching attempts of winning her back? Hell, make it a deeper barter system where I have to use my barter skill vs. his to win her love/trust. This currently goes for all the quests, there's nothing interesting or unique about them but all of them have potential to be so much more. Transport a herd quest -> you only deliver half the herd, but nobody seems to give a **** aside from the person receiving the herd and even they just kinda go ''well ok then.'' Hello? I sold half your herd to a merchant in this exact same city and you as a big bad crimelord/gangleader don't even bother telling me I'm an idiot for doing that? Make them try to rip-deal me and not pay me! Make them do something! Now it's just ''yeah ok here's your money lol'' and that's it. Quest over, repeat ad infinitum, no permanence or consequences for my actions ever. This goes for literally all the quests that aren't main quests, they offer nothing but denars and a boring quest line that just takes time, no effort and most of all doesn't draw me in to wanting to know more.

  • No quest variety. Like mentioned above, I'm saving the 5th village elders' daughter. Is there some sort of shortage of stuff to do in medieval villages? Even some mundane stuff like transporting wood to the market would be more interesting at this point if it came with a few unique choices to make. I know that this is early access but guys, come on, you could've just copied over most/all of the Warband quests as placeholders. There's just nothing to do in the game at the moment except fight and do the same quests over and over (and the writing is not that bad, but it is very clearly unfinished and very very rough) -- unless you particularly like sitting in a smithy for a few minutes clicking buttons and pretending you're a muscular smith (we really need a cinematic of your character at the very least hammering metal on an anvil. It couldn't be done in Warband but it can be done now because I've seen it done for other features; it might not be a real feature but at least it makes me feel like it is). Not that there is anything wrong with closing your eyes and imagining muscular men hitting steel, but it's not why I play Bannerlord; I play.. other games for that.

  • The main quest line proves that we can have a (relatively) linear one-time only questline. Since a lot of the factions except the Empire are rather bland in terms of storytelling, we should be able to do questlines similar to the main quest for at least all the factions. I want to know more about Vlandia and I don't want to read a wikipage (show, don't tell) to do so; let us undertake a quest (maybe even a ye olde queste, since Vlandia is perfect for that) and do something. Maybe we need to recover a holy cup from a band of bandits, which sounds simple enough but it takes us through the backalleys of Pravend and Ocs Hall as we get pulled into more trouble than the cup is really worth; especially since we weren't even promised payment. It turns out that gang leaders are involved in this, and they're making it hard for us to get the cup back -- oh no it turns out there is more stolen goods here than just a cup. Etcetera etcetera. Maybe to give Sturgia some flavor, you could have two quests/a questline that branches where you can influence the entire nation where you're forced to pick between the boyars' interest and that of the Nords. Maybe some of it involves a questline where you go around with a troop of nord mercenaries without a master and you help them raid some villages to earn some rightly earned plunder, which of course the local boyars don't take too kindly to. Who knows, but it certainly would be more interesting than whatever we have now. Oh, and for the Aserai, let us do a quest in which we can side with the bedouin and their awesome tiger skins to overthrow the centralized government for becoming too decadent! Plenty of historical precedent for quests like these but none of them happen.

  • Gang leaders really miss the marks for me. It'd be really interesting if we could become gang leaders or at the very least part of a gang leaders' group of associates. All I can do is do small time crime and beat up other gang leaders, which is not exactly how I imagine a medieval crimelords time is spent. There is so much potential here for roguery characters who earn their money skulking around towns doing bad **** and instead all we get is "I'm a wannabe-nobleman but I'm going to help this guy beat up some other criminals for like 50 bucks" which is not compelling or realistic at all. Crime is where the early game money should be made, performing odd jobs for gang leaders in their employment, not being their very poorly paid henchman that might beat up a dude or two in an alley sometimes. Let me steal village's horse herds for them, do some sneaking around a town and break and enter somewhere, maybe let me damage some dudes olive press because he upset the gang leader. And let the consequences be more permanent or persistent, whether they are positive or negative. I have an army of 50 well trained soldiers but this gang leader still treats me like I'm a poorly peasant with no money. Let me tell him to **** off at the very least.

  • Gang leaders would be much more useful and interesting if we didn't start out as relatively well equipped noblemen. I'm unsure if this is a temporary setup while the other starting scenario's are figured out but I'm kind of annoyed that I can't start off as a literal nobody. With the new improved army system, I'm sure there are at least 20 ways we could start out as a variety of things; I want to start as a mountain/forest bandit and work for some other mountain bandit called Ogar the Castle, and work my way up in his employment. This might actually make the gear we get from these bandits useful, as we'd probably start with ****ty equipment (if any at all). All their gear looks badass as hell but it's totally useless for anything other than playing dress up with your companions -- which is fun but also gets stale too quick. Or let me start as a mercenary in a small mercenary band -- they're mentioned in the lore but there's like zero of them. The small factions don't strike me as mercenary bands either and really lack the mercenary aesthetic and vibe. They feel like extensions of certain elements of the game, like how the Brotherhood are robber knights. Then make them act like robber knights and not mercenaries without the name. The artwork of this game includes this one really badass image of a bunch of big, hairy, beardy dudes with axes. Where are they?! How do I play as one of them!? They're nowhere to be found and the closest thing is bandits vaguely resembling them with who my only interaction is either being murdered or murdering them! Why!? Give me a reason to reject superior gear beyond roleplaying, especially now that the combat has been revamped in a way that makes me no longer a god among men.

  • Crossing over between the quests and the companions; why does everyone have a ''___ the ____'' name? I know this is the middle ages and surnames weren't really a massive thing until Napoleon in a lot of places and the clans are not necessarily the same as that, but does everyone need a ____ the _____ name? I could make a party full of ____ the Shieldmaidens and let them help me in rescuing ____ the Healer from ___ the Bastard, but it gets old. Can we get some prefixes, or perhaps even some simple one-word names? The gand leaders have them, why not companions or random quest NPC's? Why does Derngil need to be anything more than Derngil, why does he need to be a bastard? It's not like adding "the bastard" to his name makes his story any more compelling since we don't know anything about him given the shoddy set up of these quests. And definitely not if every other random guy is also called ___ the bastard. We desperately need some variation here and I don't think it'd be that hard to include that in one of the next few patches given that it's just updating the namelists and making some changes perhaps to how affixes are added or names without any affix/suffix.

  • Also please please PLEASE include some information about naming conventions for the different nations. If I want to play as a Battanian it'd be really good to know that Battanian clans use a fen ___ prefix to their clan names. That way I can include them from the get go rather than editing it in after starting. Hell maybe if we ever get non-noblemen starts, the game could autogenerate one for us based on the location we were made noblemen in/the place we are from and we could edit that one if we don't like it. We have an auto-generate feature for names (and the names are sweet, actually) so we need one for clan names too now, and I really can't find a reason not to add this. Quality of life, baby.
All in all I definitely think that Taleworlds has some pretty amazing writers available to them as the details of Neretzes Folly are really interesting and probably one of my favorite story elements of the game. But beyond Neretzes Folly the writing is thus far quite shoddy, repetitive and just not interesting to read. Whether that is because this is just not an implemented feature or because writing/quests are the last on the list I don't know, it would make sense from a development perspective. But I paid 40 euro's for this, and hiding behind the shield of early access will not work forever. I've been rather disappointed with the quests, characters, storytelling and companions but I hope this can be fixed later. If not, then I think that unfortunately even Warband will have a stronger story, and that will be because the story is largely absent in Warband.​
 
If not, then I think that unfortunately even Warband will have a stronger story, and that will be because the story is largely absent in Warband.
What does this even mean?

Mount & Blade has never been a story game. Its a combat/rpg/rts game or anything like that. It is not skyrim. I hate when people say "this is not good it should be more like skyrim make it more like skyrim", and while you are not saying that exactly, your main points are about making quests long and detailed and very deep. Even though I agree about quest variety etc, (and they are working on this) this game is not about that.

I didnt read everything you listed, but they will be adding the gang mechanics you mentioned, forming your own gang etc I believe is a feature that will be added. Criminal enterprises etc will hurt enemy economy I believe.
 
What does this even mean?

Mount & Blade has never been a story game. Its a combat/rpg/rts game or anything like that. It is not skyrim. I hate when people say "this is not good it should be more like skyrim make it more like skyrim", and while you are not saying that exactly, your main points are about making quests long and detailed and very deep. Even though I agree about quest variety etc, (and they are working on this) this game is not about that.

I didnt read everything you listed, but they will be adding the gang mechanics you mentioned, forming your own gang etc I believe is a feature that will be added. Criminal enterprises etc will hurt enemy economy I believe.

"Whe whe you are wrong but I also didn't read everything." Mount and Blade is 100% a story game; your own characters story. If there was no story involved then we could suffice with just the custom battles but we cannot. That is precisely why the game needs better writing and more quests; to fulfill the roleplaying game aspect of those 3 elements you listed.

Who even mentioned Skyrim? The only thing I said remotely close to that was that this could be a game we will remember for years like Morrowind. Long and detailed quests are already in the game; look at the main questline. Do you think we should remove that?
 
"Whe whe you are wrong but I also didn't read everything." Mount and Blade is 100% a story game; your own characters story. If there was no story involved then we could suffice with just the custom battles but we cannot. That is precisely why the game needs better writing and more quests; to fulfill the roleplaying game aspect of those 3 elements you listed.

Who even mentioned Skyrim? The only thing I said remotely close to that was that this could be a game we will remember for years like Morrowind. Long and detailed quests are already in the game; look at the main questline. Do you think we should remove that?
The main storyline consists of basically the equivalent of a single quest from skyrim. There is so little story there I cant believe you think that is long and detailed. You are suggesting adding questlines never before seen in this game series, only in the likes of real AAA rpgs like, again, skyrim.

Yes, Mount & blade is the story of your character and other characters and all the great things and little stories that random generation and simulation brings. What im saying is, its not a game that is focused on quests. Roleplaying should be achieved through adding features like some of the ones you mentioned - gang mechanics, options to take sides with small factions etc, not through written quests. Written quests in a game without voice acting will become tiresome quickly, and will take a long time to build from the devs - time that could be used enhancing the main gameplay aspects.

I dont want to speak for everyone, but from what I understand most people did not complete many quests in warband, only to get a few denars in the very start of the game. The same goes for bannerlord, there are no incentives to do these small scale things in a game where there are wars between thousands of soldiers and capturing of cities. Quests like this will always be a very small part of the beginning of a playthrough, and investing a lot of resources for developing quests is not very smart IMO.

If not, then I think that unfortunately even Warband will have a stronger story, and that will be because the story is largely absent in Warband.
Also you didnt explain what you mean by this
 
Right, so first of all, I don't think "adding something new, never before seen" is a bad thing nor do I think it's an argument against the thing that's being suggested. Why would it be a bad thing? We have caravan systems but I am not remotely interested in it. Should it be removed because I don't think I'll use it? No, right? So why would a deeper storyline you can pursue if you want to be a bad thing? Especially when 90% of the critique I have is related to the fact that the writing, in the game as it stands now, is just not up to standard?

As it stands the Neretzes Folly quest and everything that follows that is also "a written quest" (what the hell does that even mean?) as you call it. I think it's pretty well executed for a game that has, according to you, never before seen these types of things. I'm suggesting they add more of it for other factions on a less universal scale.

I think that with the new additions of things like family, gang leaders, and persistent characters like those, quests should obviously be a point of interest. After all what is the bloody point of having all these new elements in the game if they're just there for the sake of being there? What's the point of having a son if all he does is sit there and look interesting? Give him something to do like giving you a quest for x and y.

And what I mean by "this" is that a story with bad writing is worse than no story at all.
 
Right, so first of all, I don't think "adding something new, never before seen" is a bad thing nor do I think it's an argument against the thing that's being suggested. Why would it be a bad thing? We have caravan systems but I am not remotely interested in it. Should it be removed because I don't think I'll use it? No, right? So why would a deeper storyline you can pursue if you want to be a bad thing? Especially when 90% of the critique I have is related to the fact that the writing, in the game as it stands now, is just not up to standard?

As it stands the Neretzes Folly quest and everything that follows that is also "a written quest" (what the hell does that even mean?) as you call it. I think it's pretty well executed for a game that has, according to you, never before seen these types of things. I'm suggesting they add more of it for other factions on a less universal scale.

I think that with the new additions of things like family, gang leaders, and persistent characters like those, quests should obviously be a point of interest. After all what is the bloody point of having all these new elements in the game if they're just there for the sake of being there? What's the point of having a son if all he does is sit there and look interesting? Give him something to do like giving you a quest for x and y.

And what I mean by "this" is that a story with bad writing is worse than no story at all.
Where did I suggest removing things that are in the game? Im saying dont add things that are not in the spirit of the game, not necessary. The caravan system is just an extension of the one from warband. Everything in Bannerlord is an extension or addition to features present in warband or warband mods. Your suggestions are things not even mods made for Mount & Blade.

You seem like a person who has stumbled on to bannerlord from playing games like fallout 4, borderlands, skyrim etc (great games all), and you just want this game to be less like the core Mount & Blade, and more like them. I mean no offense. However, no discussion needed on this topic IMO, since we just can agree to disagree on this matter.
 
Where did I suggest removing things that are in the game? Im saying dont add things that are not in the spirit of the game, not necessary. The caravan system is just an extension of the one from warband. Everything in Bannerlord is an extension or addition to features present in warband or warband mods. Your suggestions are things not even mods made for Mount & Blade.

You seem like a person who has stumbled on to bannerlord from playing games like fallout 4, borderlands, skyrim etc (great games all), and you just want this game to be less like the core Mount & Blade, and more like them. I mean no offense. However, no discussion needed on this topic IMO, since we just can agree to disagree on this matter.

I think it is definitely in the spirit of the game, now more than ever.

And I've played Mount and Blade since the native 0.368 days or whatever it was, back when we only had Swadia and Vaegirs and the black knights. I think I know very well what type of game "core" Mount and Blade is, but nice assumption. You're right, no discussion needed, since we're obviously not on the same page as to what type of game Mount and Blade even is.
 
One thing you may not have thought of, is that these quests translate as "issues" in settlements, which need resolving as they can bulk up to a large negative for prosperity, loyalty and security (-5 is the highest I've seen).

I don't really like the idea of one person having an issue being an entire towns' problem though. There should be a lot more available missions, continuously, throughout settlements which have no negative impact on the town/settlement they're a part of.
 
One thing you may not have thought of, is that these quests translate as "issues" in settlements, which need resolving as they can bulk up to a large negative for prosperity, loyalty and security (-5 is the highest I've seen).

I don't really like the idea of one person having an issue being an entire towns' problem though. There should be a lot more available missions, continuously, throughout settlements which have no negative impact on the town/settlement they're a part of.

Hmm.. correct, I hadn't even thought of that or the implications of "my daughter ran away" somehow impacting the entire town/village. Of course, game mechanics, but it feels like it'd be something you could fix. It's already represented in the recruitment where you're basically recruiting with the gangleaders or village elders as middle men, and having bad relationships with one man does not mean you can't recruit people from the other.

At the moment though I'm not sure what the functionality is of prosperity, loyalty and security. Do they have a meaningful impact on the way towns operate? Or is it similar to how Warband did it, where a low prosperity = less taxes?

Either way the answer pans out, you're correct. Some missions should impact the village (you steal a herd meant for a delivery and sell them, that would obviously translate as lost prosperity) but some should not. Perhaps quests should be marked as communal in the case they impact the community and personal if they affect the gang leader or village elder you got them from?
 
Hmm.. correct, I hadn't even thought of that or the implications of "my daughter ran away" somehow impacting the entire town/village. Of course, game mechanics, but it feels like it'd be something you could fix. It's already represented in the recruitment where you're basically recruiting with the gangleaders or village elders as middle men, and having bad relationships with one man does not mean you can't recruit people from the other.

At the moment though I'm not sure what the functionality is of prosperity, loyalty and security. Do they have a meaningful impact on the way towns operate? Or is it similar to how Warband did it, where a low prosperity = less taxes?

Either way the answer pans out, you're correct. Some missions should impact the village (you steal a herd meant for a delivery and sell them, that would obviously translate as lost prosperity) but some should not. Perhaps quests should be marked as communal in the case they impact the community and personal if they affect the gang leader or village elder you got them from?

Prosperity is tied with taxation. A more prosperous town means more population, more population means more food consumption, and higher taxes paid out. I would also expect that a more prosperous town means more income from workshops and caravans.
Security - I'm not sure with, I believe this may be unused currently and have affects if Security reaches a low value, the chance of rebellion may occur.
Loyalty - The same really with Security.

It would be nice to see what the quest is before being able to accept them (like when viewing from the map screen), and having a detailed breakdown of the quest, what it impacts, what relations may be obtained if successful, what the payout will be etc...
 
Prosperity is tied with taxation. A more prosperous town means more population, more population means more food consumption, and higher taxes paid out. I would also expect that a more prosperous town means more income from workshops and caravans.
Security - I'm not sure with, I believe this may be unused currently and have affects if Security reaches a low value, the chance of rebellion may occur.
Loyalty - The same really with Security.

It would be nice to see what the quest is before being able to accept them (like when viewing from the map screen), and having a detailed breakdown of the quest, what it impacts, what relations may be obtained if successful, what the payout will be etc...

I believe that security is a way to counteract low loyalty, or at least that is the way I read it. Kind of like suppression from TW? Having a military in the area means that people feel either more secure (against bandits?) or in case of low loyalty, feel like they're being watched. But, again, that means there needs to be something the game does in the event of low loyalty which I don't know if that's the case.

For the latter, I agree, but maybe tie your awareness of what a quest does into a skill, i.e. you can ''guestimate'' the impacts if you have a low roguery, and if you have max roguery you can guess it with 100% perfect accuracy everytime. For quests that are less ''rogueish'' perhaps tie them into a different skill. Herd quest into riding, for example, as I suppose that the riding skill is used in the introduction menu's to establish your familiarity with animals.
 
I think it is definitely in the spirit of the game, now more than ever.

And I've played Mount and Blade since the native 0.368 days or whatever it was, back when we only had Swadia and Vaegirs and the black knights. I think I know very well what type of game "core" Mount and Blade is, but nice assumption. You're right, no discussion needed, since we're obviously not on the same page as to what type of game Mount and Blade even is.
Yes how strange of me to assume you were one of the tens of thousands of new players who also just joined to forums, like you just have.
 
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