[Reforged Beta] Feedback on: General gameplay, combat balance

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So it seems Heavy Infantry >>> Everything. Yes. Even with stamina penalties. The best army, easily, is 100% Heavy Infantry. Maybe an extremely micro-managed balanced composition could be of occasional advantage in open battles, but realistically it's not worth fielding one.

Shields, which are very prevalent, are durable and large enough that ranged units suck, especially since they're not particularly damaging against heavy armor in this game. And especially since bows in this game aren't doing piercing damage - and there aren't any crossbow units you can recruit that I could find at least.

Cavalry are just overpriced, because horses don't give you anywhere near as much power as they do in Native. They're not as heavily armored and you can knock units off their horses. For the PC, who can micro manage, yeah, a horse is nice. But NPCs just can't do it well enough.

Many weapons are utterly useless, making the troops that use them utterly useless(including some fairly expensive top tier troops). Particularly short blades that only do good piercing damage. Spears aren't great either. The NPCs suck at using them and over they're just not effective the way the game mechanics work. Axes and some swords and a few other weapons are good.

Going through the troop trees it's easy to eliminate too many from my list of things worth using. The ideal unit is VC is quite clearly: Heavy or at least medium armor, a shield, and an axe or sword(with good cutting damage).

Granted, native has similar issues, but there's more variety when it comes to strong options. More good blunt/piercing weapons troops to choose from to counter heavy armor, in particular, and of course archers and mounted units being worth a damn makes things a lot more interesting. Maybe they were too strong in native since Mamlukes and Rhodok Crossbowmen were a bit absurd in their ideal environments.

So while Viking Conquest is a fun DLC/mod for the setting and some interesting options outside of combat, I am having a hard time seeing myself put a lot of time into while the combat is so one dimensional. Which is a shame.

I can understand many of the weapon/armor traits are aimed at realism, but I think some compromises need to be made for gameplay. The AI being godawful at using horses and spears, and the weakness of thrusting weapons in general, should be taken into account. An alternative, of course, would be making it substantially harder to field lots of heavily armored troops. Right now they're not that expensive, and you kinda need them to counter the AI groups that use lots of them.




 
Hey @anoddhermit,

different units require different strategies to be effective in combat. And the high level ones (Tier 4 and Tier 5) are expensive (to upgrade and to pay wages), so you will not have many of them. We actually aim at armies having less than 25% of those types.

If you play with advanced formations you will notice how strong the spearman can be when fighting together, and how units like cavalry and skirmishs can make a big difference if you use flank tactics.

If you are playing on easy options and native formations (charge at will) it will seem like it is better to simple play with the swordman. If that is too easy for you, I suggest you increase the game options difficulties and enable the realism options as well, they will make a huge difference on how combat works  :smile:

Check player guides for more info: http://forums.taleworlds.com/index.php/topic,323183.0.html
 
kalarhan said:
Hey @anoddhermit,

different units require different strategies to be effective in combat. And the high level ones (Tier 4 and Tier 5) are expensive (to upgrade and to pay wages), so you will not have many of them. We actually aim at armies having less than 25% of those types.

If you play with advanced formations you will notice how strong the spearman can be when fighting together, and how units like cavalry and skirmishs can make a big difference if you use flank tactics.

If you are playing on easy options and native formations (charge at will) it will seem like it is better to simple play with the swordman. If that is too easy for you, I suggest you increase the game options difficulties and enable the realism options as well, they will make a huge difference on how combat works  :smile:

Check player guides for more info: http://forums.taleworlds.com/index.php/topic,323183.0.html

I am already playing on full realism setting.

I know top tier units are expensive, but my issue is that, bang for buck, the heavy infantry are the only high level troops worth their cost right now. If I get 25% of my army to be top tier, I want that 25% to be heavy infantry much more than I want horsemen or skirmisher/archer types.

As for shield wall and other advanced formations, I haven't found you need spearmen. Cavalry isn't that prevalent or scary, and when two infantry lines collide, the one with better armor and 1h weapons tends to win barring substantial numerical advantages.
 
As for shield wall and other advanced formations, I haven't found you need spearmen. Cavalry isn't that prevalent or scary, and when two infantry lines collide, the one with better armor and 1h weapons tends to win barring substantial numerical advantages.

Just like it was historically. This is the time for shieldwall, not cavalry or archers.
 
Spearmen are useful as a defensive wall because of their superior reach against anything else. I found that a good tactic is letting the AI engage them while you move your infantry around for a flanking charge. It works even better if you have some cavalry to charge from the rear.

However for such a thing to be possible you need a fairly high battle size (I play with 400), otherwise you won´t have enough troops of each type.
 
JuJu70 said:
As for shield wall and other advanced formations, I haven't found you need spearmen. Cavalry isn't that prevalent or scary, and when two infantry lines collide, the one with better armor and 1h weapons tends to win barring substantial numerical advantages.

Just like it was historically. This is the time for shieldwall, not cavalry or archers.
If you set up a shieldwall the ones with spears should be in the back and help the guys in the front.
Cavalry are best at running down fleeing enemies and at harassing but not dealing significant damage which is historically correct and still has some function in this game.  What i don't like though is that after the cav uses all their ammo they charge in like idiots like cavalry wouldn't have done The AI aren't smart enough to skirt around enemy formations. If it was easier to control them i could make them jav the enemy at the start of the game doing a little damage and shield damage and then when the infantry had the enemy on the run the cavalry would chase them down with their polearms.
If you are early game just get infantry and later game with a larger group get like 10% archers 20% cavalry. Your skirmishers can just hang out with your infantry or if they are more dedicated skirmishers they could go with your archers group if you are Scottish or Irish.
 
Articulo34 said:
Spearmen are useful as a defensive wall because of their superior reach against anything else. I found that a good tactic is letting the AI engage them while you move your infantry around for a flanking charge. It works even better if you have some cavalry to charge from the rear.

However for such a thing to be possible you need a fairly high battle size (I play with 400), otherwise you won´t have enough troops of each type.

Yeah i start to lose frames with enemy numbers above 250, which makes the proportions of troops not very good for diversity and tactics.
 
What i really want is the Combat speed and run speed settings to be seperate, i like fast combat but not unrealistically fast running.
 
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