SP Fantasy Redwall Mod

[UnboundZero]

Nice progress so far! My computer key board has been seriously crapped for the last few days. Guess that's what happens when you have an around 8 year old computer that you regularly use. The map icon church is little high poly. It's not like players are going to meticulously examine each and every map icon. Also, body textures don't matter a ton, because after all, you're going to be wearing Armour for most of the time. And for the half naked looters, I guess we could just make them incredibly private so they always were something... 

 

[Sir Jack]

will the mount part be used?

 

[Chucker]

I remember watching a show about Redwall when I was little. I never remembered the show's name until now. Good luck with the mod. 

 

[Broodwarcd]

My first map icon, Redwall Abbey. It's still a WIP because the walls must be finished still. And I have my worries about the amount of faces of the model.

Spoiler

Redwall Abbey
Faces: 1480
Verticles: 1540

Town (native)
Faces: 1272
Verticles: 1908

But still, Redwall Abbey will only appear one time on the map, so I think it won't do much harm if I can keep the amount of faces limited. The Church comes from the church BRF file from Native, because I am not such good modeller to make such a thing myself .

Hope you like it. I used several images from the internet to give shape to the model. If you any suggestions or things that could be better, please post.

It looks good. You can probably just make those two towers just a single pyramid and save some faces. And the front curved wall isn't sitting well with me, but it looks very good.

 

[UnboundZero]

Sir Jack... Since you are a newbie to these forums, I'll spare you a firestorm and tell you to READ THE FIRST POST BEFORE YOU POST A QUESTION! Please.

 

[Tanit]

I've been trying to post ideas on the main site, but no-one seems to respond there.  Anyways, my thoughts so far on troop trees for Hares and Rats.  I also posted a bunch of questions about characters on the official site.  Its obviously going to need some fine tuning, and its just my ideas, but I think its fairly good. 

Hares: Some thoughts, lots of unique feeling here, will do rats tomorrow

Leveret: March Hare or Salamandastron Hare
March Hare: Mountain Hare
Salamandastron Hare: Galloper or Boarder Patrol
Galloper: Runner or Sleeper
Boarder Patrol: Archer Hare or Long Patrol
Long Patrol: Long Patrol Lancer or Hare Healer
Long Patrol Lancer: Hare Officer

Leveret: Sling and dagger
March Hare: Big and strong, fists
Mountain Hare: Claymore
Salamandastron Hare: Rapier
Galloper: Very fast, dagger, sling
Runner: Better Galloper, sabre and sling
Sleeper: Better Galloper, less speed, more power, sabre and javelin
Boarder Patrol: Pike/spear and fists
Archer Hare: bow, dagger or sabre
Long Patrol: Rapier or sabre, occasional sling or javelin
Hare Healer: Dagger and sling, high healing skills
Long Patrol Lancer: Like the Long Patrol but with lance
Hare Officer: rapier and javelins


The biggest problem with making a troop tree for any group is that Brian Jacques basically has different weapons for every character in the books. There is very little sense of organization based on weapon type, more often it is based on rank, race or social standing.

Ok, so its not exactly tomorrow, but school is rough, rats are difficult, and no one seems to use this forum.

Rats are the most interesting group in Brian Jacques' universe of Redwall. This is because although they are often in positions of authority, they form the majority of the troops among vermin armies and can even be occasionally good, they have no special skill or group identity.

They also use almost every weapon known to man in the medieval ages. Spears, javelins, slings, bows, swords, cutlasses, pikes, etc...

There are a few types of rat however which can be identified.

Sea Rats: The rats who rule the seas, most likely to be leaders, ever, most likely to use bows, most vicious, most feared, best organized.

Tribal Rats: feral rats, fewer of them than other feral species, painted. In specific 'The Painted Ones' who are seen in many books. Use blowpipes, blunt branches and short spears.

Common Rats: The soldiers, use spears mostly, also use slings. Come in large numbers, usually never amount to positions of authority. Can produce archer rats as well, of a sneakier, more pathfinder kind.

Thoughts:

Rat Recruit (Actually applicable here): Common Rat or Tribal Rat
Common Rat: Water Rat or Regular Rat
Tribal Rat: Painted one
Water Rat: Bilge Rat or Sea Rat
Regular Rat: Rat Scout or Rat Soldier
Sea Rat: Corsair Rat or Corsair Skirmisher
Corsair Skirmisher: Corsair Archer
Corsair Rat: Trident Rat
Rat Scout: Rat Archer or Rat Slinger
Rat Soldier: Spear Rat

Rat Recruit: Dagger
Common Rat: short spear
Tribal Rat: Blunt stick
Painted One: Blowpipe and short spear
Water Rat: short Spear
Bilge Rat: pike
Sea Rat: cutlass or axe or short spear
Corsair Rat: cutlass, optional shield
Trident Rat: two-handed trident
Corsair Skirmisher: javelins and cutlass
Corsair Archer: bow and cutlass
Rat Scout: short sword or spear, sometimes javelins
Rat Archer: bow and sword or spear
Rat Slinger: sling and sword or spear
Rat Soldier: sword, sometimes shield
Spear Rat: spear and sometimes shield

 

[Grumph]

Not for nothing, but mayhaps you could include the "Greatrats", greatest and fiercest of the rats?

 

[Tanit]

Quite right, I will update the concept later.  Also clubs should be included as rat weapons for several of the levels.

 

[Lord Naismith]

The biggest problem with making a troop tree for any group is that Brian Jacques basically has different weapons for every character in the books. There is very little sense of organization based on weapon type, more often it is based on rank, race or social standing.

I quite agree.  Although it will be hard to identify the troop trees based on weaponry, it will still be possible to make distinctions (tell the difference between) different troop trees by their titles and stats -- which is something Mount&Blade does support in the modification realm of things.

Rats are the most interesting group in Brian Jacques' universe of Redwall. This is because although they are often in positions of authority, they form the majority of the troops among vermin armies and can even be occasionally good, they have no special skill or group identity.

They also use almost every weapon known to man in the medieval ages. Spears, javelins, slings, bows, swords, cutlasses, pikes, etc...

There are a few types of rat however which can be identified.

Sea Rats: The rats who rule the seas, most likely to be leaders, ever, most likely to use bows, most vicious, most feared, best organized.

Tribal Rats: feral rats, fewer of them than other feral species, painted. In specific 'The Painted Ones' who are seen in many books. Use blowpipes, blunt branches and short spears.

Common Rats: The soldiers, use spears mostly, also use slings. Come in large numbers, usually never amount to positions of authority. Can produce archer rats as well, of a sneakier, more pathfinder kind.

This is a gold-mine of correct assumptions and accurate depictions.  Rats have always been the 'back-bone' of vermin forces over the course of time in the Redwall books, and Tanit makes a great point in observing that they could hold almost any weapon imaginable -- which in Mount&Blade terms means separating the different tiers of rat soldiers will have to rely once again on titles, as well as stats.  It should be able to work well that way. 

Lastly I think the four categories of rats suggested by Tanit and Grumph pretty much make up the four main 'types/factions' of rats that could be created in the Mount&Blade engine; Sea Rats, Tribal Rats, Common Rats, Greatrats.  Perhaps a similar system could be applied to naming/creating troop trees for ferrets, foxes, stoats, weasels, etc?

Hares: Some thoughts, lots of unique feeling here, will do rats tomorrow

Leveret: March Hare or Salamandastron Hare
March Hare: Mountain Hare
Salamandastron Hare: Galloper or Boarder Patrol
Galloper: Runner or Sleeper
Boarder Patrol: Archer Hare or Long Patrol
Long Patrol: Long Patrol Lancer or Hare Healer
Long Patrol Lancer: Hare Officer

Leveret: Sling and dagger
March Hare: Big and strong, fists
Mountain Hare: Claymore
Salamandastron Hare: Rapier
Galloper: Very fast, dagger, sling
Runner: Better Galloper, sabre and sling
Sleeper: Better Galloper, less speed, more power, sabre and javelin
Boarder Patrol: Pike/spear and fists
Archer Hare: bow, dagger or sabre
Long Patrol: Rapier or sabre, occasional sling or javelin
Hare Healer: Dagger and sling, high healing skills
Long Patrol Lancer: Like the Long Patrol but with lance
Hare Officer: rapier and javelins


Thoughts:

Rat Recruit (Actually applicable here): Common Rat or Tribal Rat
Common Rat: Water Rat or Regular Rat
Tribal Rat: Painted one
Water Rat: Bilge Rat or Sea Rat
Regular Rat: Rat Scout or Rat Soldier
Sea Rat: Corsair Rat or Corsair Skirmisher
Corsair Skirmisher: Corsair Archer
Corsair Rat: Trident Rat
Rat Scout: Rat Archer or Rat Slinger
Rat Soldier: Spear Rat

Rat Recruit: Dagger
Common Rat: short spear
Tribal Rat: Blunt stick
Painted One: Blowpipe and short spear
Water Rat: short Spear
Bilge Rat: pike
Sea Rat: cutlass or axe or short spear
Corsair Rat: cutlass, optional shield
Trident Rat: two-handed trident
Corsair Skirmisher: javelins and cutlass
Corsair Archer: bow and cutlass
Rat Scout: short sword or spear, sometimes javelins
Rat Archer: bow and sword or spear
Rat Slinger: sling and sword or spear
Rat Soldier: sword, sometimes shield
Spear Rat: spear and sometimes shield

Once again this is some great material for character/troop tree designs.  I think it should be seriously considered for the mod, because it is quite a reasonable translation of the universe in the books into the Mount&Blade engine.  Nice work Tanit, really great resources to build on I think. ^^

 

[ares007]

The biggest problem with making a troop tree for any group is that Brian Jacques basically has different weapons for every character in the books. There is very little sense of organization based on weapon type, more often it is based on rank, race or social standing.

don't forget that it is possible to assign more than one weapon to a troop. In this case a weapon is randomly selected from among the options. This could allow some variance that is common in Redwall stories.

Also, I actually like the idea of bigger troop trees. It means slightly more work (creating all the troops and trees and stuff), but I think it will allow more personalization in troop selection in an army. I also think that small troop trees are generally dull.

will the mount part be used?

I'm personally not planning on it. We'll see

 

[Tanit]

Thanks guys!  I can hopefully edit those trees a bit tonight.  And if you like my ideas so far, what group should I look at next?

 

[UnboundZero]

Guys remember the OSP packs. We could use a few if we are in need of more weapons quickly. I started the badger troop tree a little high and advanced them pretty quickly, but then, their Badgers... I think this is a rough version, so it's bound to be changed.
                 





                  Badger Swordsman->Badger Enforcer->Badger Assaulter->Badger Berseker-> Knight of the Blood-wrath->Badger Lord
Badger Cub->
                  Badger Skirmisher->Badger Archer->Badger Yeoman->Badger Ranger
                  Badger Spearman->Badger Hoplite->Badger Lancer-> Badger Lance Captain->Badger Honor Guard->Badger Sergeant Knight

 

[ares007]

I also think that most badger troops should be atrociously expensive because there were never any armies of badgers in the books. Usually just 1-3 badgers.

Also, for badgers, I'm not sure that as many upgrade levels are needed since they are not exactly the same as other races.

Otherwise, the general organization is good. It might also be good to separate the sword line from the axe line so that players have more control over what kind of "badger lord" they end up with.


But I really don't think there's going to be armies of badgers.

 

[UnboundZero]

I think badgers should have long troop lines because you are only going to have a couple at a time. Remember the saying from Boar The Fighter, "No two badger lords can live together, peacefully"... Something like that.

 

[Tanit]

Well exactly, it makes me wonder if Badgers shouldn't be relegated to just being characters/leaders.  And if you do want a troop tree, maybe have the troop tree be just female badgers who can become more like civilians and helpers or more like warriors (Cregga Rose-eyes) since more than one female badger can occupy the same space.

 

[The Shadow]

I also think that most badger troops should be atrociously expensive because there were never any armies of badgers in the books. Usually just 1-3 badgers.

Why not just make a random event that makes them pop up out of no where?

 

[UnboundZero]

You could put a couple of options for that... Like you could just be traveling, and then you get a message that say, "You have ran into a badger holt accosted by vermin... Do you wish to rescue the Badgers?" and then you might get a cub or something. I think there should be a 6 badger per army limit. Same goes with wild cats.

 

[Wolfhead]

Mushroom, mushroom.

 

[Lord Drake]

Mushroom, mushroom.

This is relevant how?

 

[Wolfhead]

It's joke. from the video badger, badger, badger.

You know, the meme.