Red Tails

[Coraline]

Yet another Movie about the Tuskegee airmen.  I find it comical that even with CGI and stuff they still give them the "wrong" version of the P-51 Mustang, that was exusable in older films.  But not now. lol

Red Tail Trailer

The film is about the Tuskegee all African American squadron, given the nickname Red Tails after they were giving P-51 mustangs which they painted the tails all red.  They are the most dectorated Squadron in American Aviation history, they are legend for not losing a single bomber to fighter action.  They did their job just far better than everyone else.  They were to protect bombers.   

Where most white squadrons were directed to wipe the skies of enemy aircraft, often taking those orders too seriously, chasing after German fighters leaving bombers completely unprotected. 

 

[Almalexia]

Blah blah blah, they were only highly decorated because they were black.

[me=Tiberius Decimus Maximus]bah humbug[/me]

 

[BattleOfValmy]

Blah blah blah, they were only highly decorated because they were black.

[me=Tiberius Decimus Maximus]bah humbug[/me]

Wait, why would they be highly decorated for being black during a still very racist period in American history?

 

[Almalexia]

'Cus FDR wanted to piss off the Republicans. 

*EDIT*

Also, they lost 25 bombers.

 

[havoc]

Meanwhile germans had only 20 planes against formations of 800 bombers and 200 fighters.

At this stade of war there german pilots where only protecting their cities.

If you want to do a movie about courage make it about germans.

I like that quote.

 

[Coraline]

'Cus FDR wanted to piss off the Republicans. 

*EDIT*

Also, they lost 25 bombers.

25 to what?  They can not claim fighters shot down all those planes.  I do not believe Wikipedia about that.  Do they take acount of enemy ground fire which is impossible to avoid?  xD

I like that quote.

That would be a huge taboo film sadly. hehe

 

[Úlfheðinn]

I want to see some Fw190 love in films.

Not more of this P51 won the war stuff.

Hurricanes flying around would be also be welcome.

Still, more aviation films is probably a good thing(as long as they are not too terrible).

[me=Úlfheðinn]runs[/me]

 

[Coraline]

Like "The Red Baron" ??

They show other aircraft in Red Tails, including ME-262s who knows FW190s may show up.  Also the entire film is just not Black Guy in P-51 Shooting down BF-109s for an hour and a half.  They even have P-47 for a good chunk of the war.  I'm only annoyed that they use the wrong version of the P-51 for the Red Tails, they used left over P-51s given to them after other white squadrons were given newer versions including bubble cockpit versions. The Red Tails never had bubble cockpits. 

 

[Archonsod]

Wait, why would they be highly decorated for being black during a still very racist period in American history?

It's the bling dude.

 

[Moose!]

25 to what?  They can not claim fighters shot down all those planes.  I do not believe Wikipedia about that.  Do they take acount of enemy ground fire which is impossible to avoid?  xD

Yes, actually, they can. The information on Wikipedia comes from a reputable source. Furthermore, they do not take enemy ground fire into - those 25 losses were all from enemy air fighters. Other losses from ack acks were not included, so the total number lost was undoubtedly higher. The information in the report was gathered from reports given by both the bomber groups and the Tuskegee fighters themselves.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2007/04/01/AR2007040100140.html

隐藏

The report released Wednesday was based on after-mission reports filed by both the bomber units and Tuskegee fighter groups, as well as missing air crew records and witness testimony, said Daniel Haulman, a historian at the Air Force Historical Research Agency at Maxwell Air Force Base in Montgomery.

隐藏

The tally includes only cases where planes were shot down by enemy aircraft, Haulman said. No one disputed the airmen lost some planes to anti-aircraft guns and other fire from the ground.

隐藏

The 25 planes were shot down on five days: June 9, July 12, July 18 and July 20, 1944 and March 24, 1945, the Montgomery Advertiser reported.

 

[Night Ninja]

So, instead of a perfect record, they have a bloody good record. Why exactly does this diminish their achievements?

 

[Evilknightz]

Sounds like a bad record to me 

 

[darksinergy]

Come on, stop dissing on the film. It's not like we get avation films every year or so.Gotta make with what ya got.

 

[Úlfheðinn]

No.

 

[mountaindblade21]

Sounds like a bad record to me 

[quote author=wikipedia]
In 2008, the St. Petersburg Times, quoted a historian at the Air Force Historical Research Agency as confirming the total loss of up to 25 bombers, where other units were often losing more than 25 bombers in a single mission.
[/quote]
I don't know how that's a bad record. Pretty damn impressive to lose no more than 25 bombers in the number of escort missions they flew.

 

[Moose!]

So, instead of a perfect record, they have a bloody good record. Why exactly does this diminish their achievements?

When did I say this diminished their achievements? I was just pointing out that their record was not perfect.

And to nitpick, a perfect record would be better than a really good record, so yes, it does "diminish" their achievements if you previously believed that they had a perfect record. But ignore me, I'm just being an ass.

 

[Coraline]

People still have not answered whether those 25 were lost because of enemy aircraft.    They "SAY" on a few articles but do not state lost aircraft by enemy ground fire at all to compare.  Do they take account that a majority of allied aircraft lost during the war were not from enemy aircraft but ground fire?

German flak was deadly effective and took account for a mass majority of allied bombers lost, and sadly fighter escort can not do a darn thing about flak.  It has been common knowledge that bombers were lost during their missions, but all those lost were claimed by previous reports from enemy ground fire from below, not enemy fighters.  It is why some opponents still suggest "yes they lost bombers" but.. "not to enemy fighters"

It is like saying allied lost 5 for every 1  Germans tank, but sadly it's far far worse for the allies than that, since most German armor knocked out were from the air or from anti tank weapons and vehicles most successful were tank destroyers which were low in numbers.  Adding insult to injury they can credit German loses sadly half to mechanical difficulties.  But some stupid historians and books will state them as combat facts and ignore everything else. lol