Recruits need to far less common in armies

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anton97

Sergeant at Arms
WF&SWBNWM&B
I´m almost certain this has been brought up before on numerous occasions, but in case it hasn´t I´ll do it now. In the mid/mid-late game when you have amassed a warband of higher tier units every fight turns to a slaughter of whoever you´re fighting. Killing waves of unshielded recruits feel more like a gamey chore rather than a challenging battle. I think one of the upcoming patches should either make villages/towns have higher tier units to recruit, both for the AI and player or that the lords are better at training their troops to a higher tier before going to battle.
 

Azhael

Veteran
Agreed. Battles become boring when they're not even. I used to play warband with no companions (therefore only my trainer skill giving xp everyday) to avoid having armies composed of top tier troops and crushing every army. I had very intense battles that way and those were a lot of fun.

To be honest, I'd like it if it were harder to get top tier troops overall. Low tier troops should represent a considerable chunk of an army, as it usually was in medieval times.
 

Maeleth

Recruit
Low tier troops should represent a considerable chunk of an army, as it usually was in medieval times.
They are affected by morale too hard IMO. A few volleys of arrows and peasants start routing. What's the point of playing a game about combat when the only enemy you'll ever see is dead or fleeing?
 

Gamelin

Regular
M&BWBNWVC
To be honest, I'd like it if it were harder to get top tier troops overall. Low tier troops should represent a considerable chunk of an army, as it usually was in medieval times.

I disagree, in Mount & Blade the lords are running around with their personal retinues. why would it be full of peasents? Lower tier units such as a soldier with perhaps just a helmet a spear and a shield I 100% want to make up the majority so I hope that is what you meant. I also subcribe to the idea that even peasents could manage to scrap together a shield and a spear if they were levied into a proper army. Peasents defending their homeland from raids are something else.
 

Pejot

Sergeant Knight
WBVC
Agreed. Battles become boring when they're not even. I used to play warband with no companions (therefore only my trainer skill giving xp everyday) to avoid having armies composed of top tier troops and crushing every army. I had very intense battles that way and those were a lot of fun.

To be honest, I'd like it if it were harder to get top tier troops overall. Low tier troops should represent a considerable chunk of an army, as it usually was in medieval times.

Agreed. Maybe low tiers should have slightly better gear but they should be the army core.
 

xThreatx

Veteran
The problem is that ai lords have to abide by the same rules we do in the game while in warband there units where "recruited" based of fief number quality ect... Now they have to stick to simulated battles where we have the option to manually fight battles.

This leads to a few things that i think is causing the peasant swarm to be in every army battle.

1. AI Lords join the war effort or get summoned to armies far to soon this is when they have managed to get 40% of the party capacity filled up.(They need to change the quantity check to a quality one such as i have average troop tier for 2.5 i can now fight etc)

2. As we know the training feature being relegated to a choice of two skills that work per stack not per unit effectively removes training from the game so no xp that way leaving it to fighting XP (unless the lord sits in a castle for 80 days they get 1 t2 unit).

3.Fighting XP currently as you have probably all witnessed a 100 party of t4/5 units vs 1-2 forest bandits (or any party bar looters) will result in multiple deaths regardless of rank. This leads to leveling a army being hard due to constant deaths and retaining high level units being challenging due to having the effectively same durability of the T1 units in simulated battles.
 

Azhael

Veteran
I disagree, in Mount & Blade the lords are running around with their personal retinues. why would it be full of peasents? Lower tier units such as a soldier with perhaps just a helmet a spear and a shield I 100% want to make up the majority so I hope that is what you meant. I also subcribe to the idea that even peasents could manage to scrap together a shield and a spear if they were levied into a proper army. Peasents defending their homeland from raids are something else.
Yes, that's what I meant. Tier 2 troops I think should be the bulk of most armies and have at least a shield. I think that's the case for most factions except aserai and vlandians, which lack shields on their second tier troops.
 

Lemondude

Regular
Yeah basically the issue is when you beat a lord in battle they then scramble to recruit as many units as possible so they can start fighting again.

These will be mostly recruits unit they have fought a few battles.

So maybe they should have more higher tier soldiers for recruiting in towns/villages, or let them get promoted faster
 
They could change the behavior of the Lord after a defeat to stick to his own fief, cleaning out looters and bandits in order to level his army AND save his economy and us from a head ache when later we take over his fief?
 

Stratigo

Sergeant
I mean the recruit system isn't hugely realistic. Peasant levies weren't much of a thing. Pretty much no one grabbed a dude off the field with a pitchfork and went "Good luck mate! In a couple of battles we'll give you a rusty knife and a gambeson that only has a few holes in it". A standing force would.... give its soldiers the same basic equipment as anyone else, and if that soldier was upper crust, they'd show up with some extra equipment. A society that relied on a levy system would have a military class that self equipped, and often would equip retainers, so when they showed up, they'd have their weapons and armor already.
 

bigbalzzz

Regular
They could change the behavior of the Lord after a defeat to stick to his own fief, cleaning out looters and bandits in order to level his army AND save his economy and us from a head ache when later we take over his fief?
with the new aotu battle system his units will just die to an even point with the leveling so he wont be upgrading more than losing so he will be in an endless cycle to level with the new aotu battle ****
 

durbal

Sergeant
The reason they have so many recruits is largely because they spawn with them. Fix the zombie lord hordes and then we can worry about army quality. Also autoresolve needs to be fixed...

They are affected by morale too hard IMO. A few volleys of arrows and peasants start routing. What's the point of playing a game about combat when the only enemy you'll ever see is dead or fleeing?

I think morale is fine for lower tier units. A huge aspect of the problem with wars, capturing nobles, etc. is that when the loser loses a battle they lose their entire army, nobles are captured, etc. Armies should be routed, not slaughtered to the last man. Losers should be able to retreat and recover but the game forces them to all be chased down and slaughtered. Even if a large portion flee the army still goes *poof* into thin air.
 
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Frag

Recruit
I think one of the source of the issue is ... you cannot keep the lords in prison when you captured them. So if you fight a Kingdom and you defeat lords, you ransom them (since putting them in prison is useless since they escape by default) and then they come back few days later with a new army to fight you again.

So briefly, it would be nice for the lord to be strong the first time you fight them since you can consider that they trained that army for a long time. But it would not make sense for them to always come back to you with veteran warrior after getting defeated few days ago.

If a lord would come back to you every few days, after you defeated him many times, with strong veteran warrior ...it would get very frustrating.
 

Caps

Knight at Arms
WBWF&SNWVC
I think one of the source of the issue is ... you cannot keep the lords in prison when you captured them. So if you fight a Kingdom and you defeat lords, you ransom them (since putting them in prison is useless since they escape by default) and then they come back few days later with a new army to fight you again.

So briefly, it would be nice for the lord to be strong the first time you fight them since you can consider that they trained that army for a long time. But it would not make sense for them to always come back to you with veteran warrior after getting defeated few days ago.

If a lord would come back to you every few days, after you defeated him many times, with strong veteran warrior ...it would get very frustrating.
You can just buff the first leadership perk to level up level 1-2-3 units quicker. Even when my own faction is at war they mostly have recruits because its impossible to replenish units fast enough. My own army has alot of recruits aswell, because its impossible to replenish fast enough.
 

Wahee

Recruit
You can just buff the first leadership perk to level up level 1-2-3 units quicker. Even when my own faction is at war they mostly have recruits because its impossible to replenish units fast enough. My own army has alot of recruits aswell, because its impossible to replenish fast enough.

Exactly. The existing perks are a perfect way to solve this, the amount of xp just needs to be upped considerably and all AI need this perk as default. I like this method because it prevents the recruit spam but also caps at tier 3, preventing easy access to top tier units. I'd actually be in favor of tuning it up a little higher for the AI than the player simply because they don't focus on fighting looters and tend to join armies straight away.
 

Ody_cz

Recruit
Main problem is how fast can AI create new armys. You can defeat 5 lords and if you dont kill them they will make full stack of new recruits in like 2 days. If you kill them they will be immediately replaced by mercenarys. It is dull. Actions you make have no consequences ,,
 

Caps

Knight at Arms
WBWF&SNWVC
Main problem is how fast can AI create new armys. You can defeat 5 lords and if you dont kill them they will make full stack of new recruits in like 2 days. If you kill them they will be immediately replaced by mercenarys. It is dull. Actions you make have no consequences ,,
they are full recruit stacks
 
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