Recruiting clans is way too expensive, Warband had a better system

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beanywalrus

Veteran
Currently recruiting other clans into your kingdom is ridiculously expensive and I can't imagine how this is supposed to be fun. It's not like money is hard to make, but I'm sitting with 2 million denars in the bank yet nobody I speak to is willing to join my kingdom, saying I don't have enough money to convince them. Are you serious? It should not cost 2 million to recruit clans, even people who are enemies with their liege and friends with me are unwilling to speak with me. I'm not buying their fiefs, I should not be spending this much. In fact, if someone is rich and have fiefs, I should not have to give them much money at all unless they're greedy. Please overhaul this system to allow for the AI to make intelligent decisions based off kingdom strength, their relationship with their liege, your personality and reputation, and seriously tone down how much money is needed to recruit them. I know that the persuasion minigame takes some of this into account, but its very lackluster and still RNG. Warband didn't even ask for money and relied on your persuasion skill + aforementioned things, plus it allowed for RP with your promises. It was much better. I don't mind spending money but the asking price and minimum to barter is just absurd. I have a kingdom with 12000 combat strength - this should be my bartering chip, with money a cherry on top or damn, why not make it so we can bribe greedy lords, offer people fiefs, promise them land and conquest?
 

Blood Gryphon

Master Knight
WBVC
@beanywalrus you've got to focus trying to recruit clans that have no fiefs and have a poor wealth status, they will only cost you a few hundred thousand to recruit. If you go after clans that have fiefs then they will want you to pay for them to leave their fiefs, you are essentially convincing them to leave everything behind.

My biggest gripe with recruitment is that we can't offer fiefs to trade instead of cash. I should be able to give one of my fiefs up to lower the cost of recruitment.
 

beanywalrus

Veteran
@beanywalrus you've got to focus trying to recruit clans that have no fiefs and have a poor wealth status, they will only cost you a few hundred thousand to recruit. If you go after clans that have fiefs then they will want you to pay for them to leave their fiefs, you are essentially convincing them to leave everything behind.

My biggest gripe with recruitment is that we can't offer fiefs to trade instead of cash. I should be able to give one of my fiefs up to lower the cost of recruitment.
I was able to recruit a lord with a town not too long ago, the price wasn't too bad, and I think his wealth was poor. I'm trying to do the same with other clans now and they don't even give me the option - I'm friends with both clans in question. The priority just seems busted and unreliable right now, which is why I prefer Warband's recruitment. Honorable lords would stick with a king despite having no fiefs until the very end, bad natured lords were never happy unless you were feasting with them 24/7 to where you can give someone else attention without them running away. Friendships mattered a lot. But now having it based on how much money the player can spend on recruitment just seems like the priority is off, like I'm not RP'ing, just min-maxing my income.
 

Blood Gryphon

Master Knight
WBVC
I was able to recruit a lord with a town not too long ago, the price wasn't too bad, and I think his wealth was poor. I'm trying to do the same with other clans now and they don't even give me the option - I'm friends with both clans in question. The priority just seems busted and unreliable right now, which is why I prefer Warband's recruitment. Honorable lords would stick with a king despite having no fiefs until the very end, bad natured lords were never happy unless you were feasting with them 24/7 to where you can give someone else attention without them running away. Friendships mattered a lot. But now having it based on how much money the player can spend on recruitment just seems like the priority is off, like I'm not RP'ing, just min-maxing my income.
I believe it is actually easier to recruit clans with fiefs if you are at war with them, when you are at war they will bring their fiefs with them and not cost too much but i think you need to have a pretty good relationship with them.

If you are getting auto rejected it is because you don't have enough money to convince them. Maybe try it when at war with the faction?

My strategy to recruit clans has always been to take their lands but always release them to gain relationship and hand them back their land once they join with me.
 

Ananda_The_Destroyer

Grandmaster Knight
They (Clans)consider several things in order of importance:

1: Their own fiefs and finances, no fief = easy to get, less money they have, the easier too. Clans with a fief are very expensive (like 1m-2m) sometimes and only bring thier fief if you're at war with thier faction

2: Power situation of thier faction versus yours. When their faction is ****'d and you're is okay, they are easier to get. The power is the field parties + garrisons (not militia), the more fiefs and clans (parties) your faction has the more attractive you are!

3: Thier relation to thier ruler and thier relation to you. If they like thier king they are hard (expensive) to get and more likely to flip flop back to that faction later, but if they don't like them but have a good relation to you, they are easier and will stay.

When a lord flat out refuses you it means the hypothetical amount of money they would want to turn is just too great compared to what you posses, the devs did this so you don't waste your time on the persuasion dialogue only to not be able to get them anyways.

SO go after those poor home less clans (make some too by taking thier fiefs!) , defeat them and release after battle for +relations, hire some merc clans and you'll be getting vassals in not time (maybe...)! The more you have the easier it is to get more because you power goes up!

Just to be clear, you cannot compensate for them having a fief or you faction being much weaker then theirs's just by having high relations. A lot of people assume so, but it isn't so. It will help for sure but they need to be poor, scared and preferably mad at king too!

You can just make clans out of wanderers now, costs 500 influence, 20k and 1 fief, you must be the ruler then talk to a wanderer in your clan (not family) and say "I want to reward you" If they're in default gear or you remove their gear they spawn in lords gear matching their culture. There's no reason to bother with normal clans now unless you just can, like you have tunz of money and good relations and run into a clan leader and they will join you.
 

MostBlunted

Sergeant Knight at Arms
When a lord flat out refuses you it means the hypothetical amount of money they would want to turn is just too great compared to what you posses, the devs did this so you don't waste your time on the persuasion dialogue only to not be able to get them anyways.
While this makes sense TW should make it clearer and lords should say something like "I´m not interested to join your faction at the moment." or something like this.

It´s the same with the creating a kingdom thing, many players don´t "understand" that "not enough money" = won´t join because of several reasons.
 

Emperor1997

Knight
They (Clans)consider several things in order of importance:

1: Their own fiefs and finances, no fief = easy to get, less money they have, the easier too. Clans with a fief are very expensive (like 1m-2m) sometimes and only bring thier fief if you're at war with thier faction

2: Power situation of thier faction versus yours. When their faction is ****'d and you're is okay, they are easier to get. The power is the field parties + garrisons (not militia), the more fiefs and clans (parties) your faction has the more attractive you are!

3: Thier relation to thier ruler and thier relation to you. If they like thier king they are hard (expensive) to get and more likely to flip flop back to that faction later, but if they don't like them but have a good relation to you, they are easier and will stay.

When a lord flat out refuses you it means the hypothetical amount of money they would want to turn is just too great compared to what you posses, the devs did this so you don't waste your time on the persuasion dialogue only to not be able to get them anyways.

SO go after those poor home less clans (make some too by taking thier fiefs!) , defeat them and release after battle for +relations, hire some merc clans and you'll be getting vassals in not time (maybe...)! The more you have the easier it is to get more because you power goes up!

Just to be clear, you cannot compensate for them having a fief or you faction being much weaker then theirs's just by having high relations. A lot of people assume so, but it isn't so. It will help for sure but they need to be poor, scared and preferably mad at king too!

You can just make clans out of wanderers now, costs 500 influence, 20k and 1 fief, you must be the ruler then talk to a wanderer in your clan (not family) and say "I want to reward you" If they're in default gear or you remove their gear they spawn in lords gear matching their culture. There's no reason to bother with normal clans now unless you just can, like you have tunz of money and good relations and run into a clan leader and they will join you.
Created clans by the player is currently a mayor risk, because there is a defection bug for all clans in the player kingdom.
 

Ananda_The_Destroyer

Grandmaster Knight
Created clans by the player is currently a mayor risk, because there is a defection bug for all clans in the player kingdom.
Could be, I'll see when/if they start to defect. However at least you're just using influence and fiefs to make them as opposed to (possibly) large amounts of money or tinkering time to recruit normal clans. Have you had this problem on a fresh 1.8 game? It's been unclear to me if people reporting this problem are rolling over from a 1.7. game or not.
 

Lesbosisles

Knight
@Duh_TaleWorlds I am interested in some other thing.
When a clan leaves your Kingdom - they take their fiefs with them, so you lose them.

But when you recruit a clan, whatever fiefs they had - it's all stays within their previous kingdom. Is it a bug?
 

Ananda_The_Destroyer

Grandmaster Knight
Isnt that pretty much what they say?
Yeah, the problem is more that players don't understand and grossly underestimate what is required to recruit vassals. Many players assume that having high relations will get the vassals easily and this question is asked/answered very frequently and is why I have a copy paste of my best explanation handy. Also the main campaign quest leads new player to create a faction in a very under developed state and doesn't provide any guidance or information about what starting new faction will actually be like. Players are often shocked that they must fight armies alone and their "friends" won't join them. Many players have no idea that they can create vassals from wanderers too.

Now, it makes sense and can be explained, it just isn't intuitive to new players and probably some primer or NPC to explain these things in game would do a lot of good in the final version.
 

Lesbosisles

Knight
Do you observe them defecting to neutral kingdoms with their fiefs?
Not sure I understand the question:roll:

I am a king of Sturgia right now, and recently I've captured two Aserai fiefs (a city and a castle) and granted them to a clan with no fiefs. A few days after that, they joined Aserai and took the fiefs with them.

Another situation was with the clan I created from a wanderer - they had 1 town and joined Vlandians. The town became Vlandian after that.

Yet, when I recruited an Imperial clan with at least 1 town - they joined my Kingdom without any fiefs. The town stayed with Imperials.
 

Duh_TaleWorlds

Developer
Defection to enemies with your fiefs is fine and happens between AI kingdoms. Defection to neutral kingdoms should not happen with fiefs. Afaik.
 

Lesbosisles

Knight
Defection to enemies with your fiefs is fine and happens between AI kingdoms. Defection to neutral kingdoms should not happen with fiefs. Afaik.
So, if I recruit a clan during a war - they'll join me with their fiefs, but if I recruit the same clan during the peace time - they'll leave their fiefs to their previous Kingdom, right?
 

Duh_TaleWorlds

Developer
Should be like that yes. That's why defecting someone that owns fiefs is harder during peace. They consider the loss of their fiefs.
 

Lesbosisles

Knight
I believe they say something related to "not enough money".

Haven´t even tried to convience a lord since I can just make my own companions lords, I don´t see any use in AI lords after you gave us this option.
I don't really understand how can it be convenient when you have to grant a new-born clan one of your own fiefs... And with that voting system you can't get a new fief instead of a given one.
 

Emperor1997

Knight
Defection to enemies with your fiefs is fine and happens between AI kingdoms. Defection to neutral kingdoms should not happen with fiefs. Afaik.
But it does not make sense, that they defect to kingdoms with much lower power score than my kingdom.

Recently 1 clan with 2 towns and 2 castles defect to the Khuzait(active war), after 2 in-game weeks the defector clan has lost all his fiefs to the glorious armies of my kingdom.

Clans should value their fiefs more and the security to keep their fiefs, when deciding to defect.
 
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