Recovering from casualties almost impossible in this game?

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Apocal

Master Knight
Pray tell, where are you able to recruit tier 3 units? if you mean you grind looters every time until they hit t3, that's exactly what I am trying to avoid.

From villages and towns? I don't know where you're getting the idea high-tier units don't appear there, but they do.
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At any rate, I'm just constantly recruiting replacements. I don't really care if I have 30-40 tier 1 units in my party or whatever because after a single battle (not against looteres), I'll have 15-25 tier 2 units instead.
 

orgat

Recruit
From villages and towns? I don't know where you're getting the idea high-tier units don't appear there, but they do.
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At any rate, I'm just constantly recruiting replacements. I don't really care if I have 30-40 tier 1 units in my party or whatever because after a single battle (not against looteres), I'll have 15-25 tier 2 units instead.
That's not consistent enough. In my experience I had to travel between villages and cities way too much for too long.
Maybe your cities look like that because you don't have vassals draining them constantly of any good troops?
What happens during war? will your recruitment pool still look like that or will it all be empty/filled with farmers?
One more question, are you playing as a vassal or is this city part of your own kingdom? if you play as a vassal the overall difficulty of the playthrough is going to be much easier.
 

Apocal

Master Knight
That's not consistent enough. In my experience I had to travel between villages and cities way too much for too long.
Maybe your cities look like that because you don't have vassals draining them constantly from any good troops?
What happens during war? will your recruitment pool still look like that or will it all be empty/filled with farmers?

I'm a vassal in those screenshots and it is during wartime. It will occasionally get drained but it is uncommon where I can't get at least 15 tier 3 units in one pass going north to south from Baltakhand, Ortongard, Akkalat and Odokh. Sometimes I wind up with more like 30-40 in one go, which is plenty; you can start thinking about knocking off lord parties with that many tier 3 troops, so that's what I'll do.

Other than that, I have troops stashed in garrisons that I'll pull out in case of a total party wipe. Or I'll just rob one of my clan parties for troops. Or I'll just recruit like 150+ tier 1 units and use them to smash a small lord party, mass upgrade the survivors to tier 2, then repeat one more time to get them all to tier 3.

Recovering isn't really that difficult unless you want to go for a fully max-tier party, which is unnecessary for... basically anything in the game. Counterproductive even, in a lot of cases.

I don't obsessively grind looters past the early game. There is just no reason to do it.
 

Parkerg12

Recruit
So you don't really need A army of elite troops nor can you or should you be able to afford it. just getting a recruit a shield or a bow (tier 2) means they are a pretty effective troop in an army. I actually never run around with all Tier 6 troops I only bring those out when I need them to take a castle or city. Why should I waste elite troops in a field battle which I gain nothing? also by keeping those elite troops on my Town the AI will not besiege it because it is too heavily defended.
 

JackFrosty

Regular
I think the problem with larger battles is the number of units allowed on the field makes it to where you will take a lot more casualties if you are not sitting near your spawn which sometimes you can't do because the enemy ai may camp their spawn. Even if your infantry and archers clean house they will be spread out by the time more enemies spawn and you will start taking a lot of casualties from inferior troops that you wouldn't normally have a problem with. So by the end of this battle the enemy will have lost 800 or so **** troops and even though you won easily you still lost hundreds of t3 and above troops from a clan army and many of your party's t5 infantry. At that point it seems more like you lose more than the enemy because they can just go and get back their **** army and keep attacking.
 

Parkerg12

Recruit
There is not a perfect army composition other than maybe all horse archers. But one thing I do is make sure I have plenty of low tier troops to serve as a shield wall. a tier 2 imperial infantry or archer are super easy to train up, make sure these low tier troops are more exposed than your elite vanguard. use control groups - another great one is hiring mercenaries and going down the Calvary path. they are very replaceable so you don't mind losing them if they get wiped out harassing the enemy archers or flanking. one reason you also lose hi tier units is they may have a recuit next to them in the line. when that recuits dies or come under arrow fire the elite troop is left exposed.
 

vota dc

Sergeant Knight at Arms
M&BWB
Its a part and has always been a part of the mount and blade gameplay loop



The AI deals with the same recruitment and training as the player after suffering casualties they come back with professional armies because they deplete their garrison instead of recruiting (They can however upgrade cavalry without the need of horses)

It is a mistery where minor factions get their special troops. They also recruit regular troops from the faction that employ them following the same rules.

I tried to get all troops and disband them for the sake of it but AI still manage to recruit in village,they just need to reach them and pay.
Maybe there isn't other solution: AI constantly depletes their troops, if when AI recruit deplete pool reserves from villages then player would have very hard time to find even low level recruits.
 

Zoonanay

Knight
Or I'll just recruit like 150+ tier 1 units and use them to smash a small lord party, mass upgrade the survivors to tier 2, then repeat one more time to get them all to tier 3..

IMO this is the best strategy to mass level tier 1's without bandits/looter killing. Money is cheap and you can usually get 5-15 recruits per settlement so reaching party limit in a single recruiting run generally isn't a problem.
 

sniparsexe

Knight at Arms
What's bad is that when your party has shrunk in size after suffering enough casualties after enough battles, when you go back to your cities to replenish them, instead of having t2-t3 who can actually fight your only option is to recruit useless tier 1 units.
You could travel around the cities and villages and hand picking all the t2 or t3 units you come across but this is way too time consuming, both in terms of in-game time and both in terms of real-world time.
My suggestion is that after certain amount of time, or after a few upgrades to your city or castle, the minimal tier of the recruits should increase.
It doesnt make sense to lose Sharpshooters and Vanguards and then go back and replace them with farmers.
I don't think that's a bad thing and that's exaclty what should happen.
 

Seriously though one of my main gripes is how slow medicine levels, how it levels and so on. If this was warband I would have max surgery on my level 13 char and go to blow out battles barely loosing any troops to death. In banner lord my learning rate will be shot to nothing by leveling up in combat in a few hours of the game before I can have 50 medicine.

The issue is that after a painful bloody siege or a 1000vs1000 bloodbath (without teleporting your archers via tab+retreat which I don't even know why is allowed
The ninja vanish is too much, but in a siege or at the edge of the map away from enemies you SHOULD be able to retreat as often as you want. They're the one's stuck in the siege not you. Archers grossly underperformed in siege attack imo. I don't know but I suspect some pathing shenanigan to make them not shoot down defending archers as well as they should. IMO if you bring 100 t5-6 archers they should blow the :poop: y militia archers out before they get a shot off.
I hate how incompetent units behave in siege.

3) Base your party on bandits that have decent gear to begin with, decent stats and most importantly, always available almost anywhere on the map AND 100% free.
Yeah this is a good choice. I start the game by stealing 20 horses and making 20 khuzait raiders, then build up mostly from prisoners and bandits.

1) Cheese the HELL out of the game.
Recruit 100+ archers, train them to be Fian champions or Vlandian sharpshooters or whatever, massacre the enemy troops and when they get too close with their 800+ troops, hold tab and click retreat and rinse and repeat.
If you get 100 fians and 100 khans guards you're not gonna have to retreat ever again :smile:
Too bad there's no huskarls and swadian knight to go with them.

2) Suffer the casualties and try and fill the gaps with prisoners you just freed and recruited.
I feel like they expect the player to re-load and try something else tbh. The way they made medicine slow and are very stubborn about limiting how much passive exp you can get makes it seem like they don't consider an ironman playstyle. Until they iron out all the bugs and bad AI and maps and Units I re-set whenever I want because it's always some bull:poop: waiting where you troops will just decide it's time to space out and die.

SO yeah, we're not getting more exp perks, we're probably not getting more recruitment or training features.
 

NordicWill

Sergeant
I don't have a problem with loosing many higher tier troops after large battles. I do agree that changes need to be made though because BL is so battle heavy that this continuous grind is boring. Some ways that should make this more entertaining/improve the problem.
- Garrison training centers that you can partake in. Fighting, forming ranks, archery ranges, to having military honor feast with troops. These events should give xp to the troops and/or boost morale to prevent desertion.
- Owned castles level up troops that are stationed there over time. Regardless if i am there or not troops rank up and promote. The game can balance this by doing a tier % cap on certain castles upgrade levels (ex. Grade 1 castle is only promoting 4% to top tier level, Grade 2 8%, etc...)
- Setting Camp within __ amount of time before battle decrease % of troop deaths. Setting camp is lost on this game which is weird for such a battle heavy sandbox
-Using personal $ to improve/customize unit's armor. This mostly when you aren't a vassal or you have your own kingdom.

These are my suggestions but I'm sure others have thought this and maybe explore with having a companion with medical and setting up medical tent in camp, or carrying certain supplies treats recovery for wounded troops faster.
 
From my single player experience it feels like the losses I get come unproportionally from high-tier units. Maybe I am just unlucky with the RNG, maybe I make tactical mistakes - cannot tell. What I HAVE encountered, however, is that when using "send troops" to train tactics or because you are too injured, I often lose rare high-level troops over other more numerous and squishy types. Bad RNG luck? Like 'I have 15 Aserai Archers and 1 Battanian Fian Chamion - who gets to die at autoresolve? Right...'
I do not know whether it is bad perception or something caused by the autoresolve mechanism.
When leading the troops I had some cases of bad luck like a Brigand throwing a javelin as last-ditch effort and killing someone valuable instead of the rabble left and right to them.
There are some troops that die very often in my game: Aserai Skirmishers, Aserai Heavy Mameluke Guard and Mameluke Guards on foot.
I just do not have any proof whether is a flaw or not. I mean, if you have an elite army, you will lose elite cause you don't have other troops.

I rather concur with some point NordicWill said: medicine levels absurdly low, as does tactics and roguery. I would daresay, that medicine is the skill which is currently worst to achieve and level. This might be part of the problem.

Another thing is that changing from warband to bannerlord: I was a fan of the trainer perk and invested regularily into it. And occasionally I visited the training grounds in the world and leveled up some troops myself. I reckon, I cannot here as both I cannot start with meaningful leader skills to train troops and cannot use training grounds for the purpose of exercising with the troops.

I am also not able to improve my infrastructure - if I have a fief - to have a steady influx of recruits and the means of training them. One factor is that lords of my own faction just do a recruitment spree before suiciding their new troops on raids on villages. My villages get emptied. I would rather have a setting for my notables to send troops to the castle garrison and prevent them to sell all their men to strangers - even mercs refill their troops there.
I would like to assign a companion as trainer in a castle or assign as captain of an arms branch in my army and train the troops there.
You might buy troops from a lord's garrison, if he likes you enough and could be asked more often to train troop type X for him for bonus relationship or other rewards as well. Like higher-tier units (T2+) at castles, recruits or T0-2 at villages (yes, why not include peasants?)

Last factor, that is a bit bad in my book: The game entices us to level up stuff. Once our troops are good enough to be promoted, we WANT to do that.
It is correct, that our army needs cheap cannonfodder as well, if I want to wage huge battles if we want to play both realistically and economically. Yet, the game mechanism has a kind of reward system in store to promote troops good enough - and we do. We want it. We have grinded for it...and yet, we are punished for doing so in a certain way (that is logical nevertheless - better troops, more wage, death rate).

Just my point of view. In battle, you lose troops and you should count on that. I can understand, that a cheating AI is frustrating and at some point you are severily losing the game of attrition to the point of being unable to rebuild in time. This should be checked out, if it is a general problem. In my book, lords should start with 20 recruits - no more - and start from scratch just like us. Instead, they are magically beamed out of our prisons and respawn with a usable army core. This is not right from my point of view. This might cause too much attrition for the player to bear or enjoy the game.
 
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ukas2

Recruit
Why don't you play on the easiest setting then?

For me the game is overtly easy as it is with the most difficults settings on. And no, I haven't found it almost impossible to recover from casualties. Taking a lot of casualties means a week long recruiting & training pause in the current war, if that much. Then even with your mostly rookie party you can take out a single enemy party with prisoners, get some of your troops trained, and new replacements from the released prisoners.
 

Apocal

Master Knight
Just my point of view. In battle, you lose troops and you should count on that. I can understand, that a cheating AI is frustrating and at some point you are severily losing the game of attrition to the point of being unable to rebuild in time. This should be checked out, if it is a general problem. In my book, lords should start with 20 recruits - no more - and start from scratch just like us. Instead, they are magically beamed out of our prisons and respawn with a usable army core. This is not right from my point of view.

AI lords respawn with -- at most -- 19 troops. They aren't all recruits but by time you're knocking off lords' parties, you shouldn't be worried about those 19 respawn troops at all. The way they replenish their parties to the point of being usable (40% or higher, for the AI) is the same way players do: by taking troops out of garrisons and recruiting from settlements.
 
Maybe this is only happening in my game - I usually would concur but in my specific situation I have Tubilis castle which borders on a current strong Battania and a relatively strong Southern Empire.
What happens is that when war breaks out a HORDE of Battanian lords enters my fief and starts raiding my villages. Sure, I can knock them off piecemeal and do so ramping up prisoners and caught lords. But then they escape regularily and return with o.k. - troops again and about 70-100. I guess, their clan members collect recruits and dump them into the garrison or whatever this is filled.
And then it becomes a war of attrition with me having no time to recruit and train properly as all assets around me are plundered (or even my fellow lords recruit there). And when war with Battania ends you can bet your grandma that SE will declare shortly after and they will come with better armies as they had some period of time in peace. I do not know...this kind of attrition you face is to be expected, but otherwise this is frustrating.

I guess this is situational, where your fief is located and whether you are your own king or not. But I have the current impression that the game throws troops faster at me than I can recover. I am using my castle as a kind of piggy bank to dump T6 troops and in war I visit my often to replace wounded troops with fresh ones of same tier to keep the upper hand while whacking the rampaging lords. I guess having a fief that has #1 target priority for all potential enemies does not really help :wink:
 

orgat

Recruit
Why don't you play on the easiest setting then?

For me the game is overtly easy as it is with the most difficults settings on. And no, I haven't found it almost impossible to recover from casualties. Taking a lot of casualties means a week long recruiting & training pause in the current war, if that much. Then even with your mostly rookie party you can take out a single enemy party with prisoners, get some of your troops trained, and new replacements from the released prisoners.
I will never play ANY game on a difficulty that is not hardest. NEVER.
I think you skipped several of my posts where I clearly said that the game is NOT hard. that's not the issue at all.
You can beat the game and take over 100% the map without fighting a SINGLE battle, that's how not-hard this game is.
My issue is that I feel like the game doesn't give you a solid way of replenishing your forces other than mostly tier 1 units, even in late game.
But that clearly isn't the experience for some other players like @Apocal for some reason. He claims his cities are always abundant with t2-t3 units.
 

orgat

Recruit
I'm a vassal in those screenshots and it is during wartime. It will occasionally get drained but it is uncommon where I can't get at least 15 tier 3 units in one pass going north to south from Baltakhand, Ortongard, Akkalat and Odokh. Sometimes I wind up with more like 30-40 in one go, which is plenty; you can start thinking about knocking off lord parties with that many tier 3 troops, so that's what I'll do.

Other than that, I have troops stashed in garrisons that I'll pull out in case of a total party wipe. Or I'll just rob one of my clan parties for troops. Or I'll just recruit like 150+ tier 1 units and use them to smash a small lord party, mass upgrade the survivors to tier 2, then repeat one more time to get them all to tier 3.

Recovering isn't really that difficult unless you want to go for a fully max-tier party, which is unnecessary for... basically anything in the game. Counterproductive even, in a lot of cases.

I don't obsessively grind looters past the early game. There is just no reason to do it.
Maybe that was due to Khuzait always being the strongest faction in the game, with a well known snowballing issue?
Maybe that's why they don't need to go back and drain the cities? have you tried playing as a vassal of Sturgia for example?
I doubt that will be the case for you.
 

Apocal

Master Knight
Maybe that was due to Khuzait always being the strongest faction

I have the same experiences with Aserai, who are basically run-of-the-mill in almost every playthrough.

have you tried playing as a vassal of Sturgia for example?

Yes, multiple times. Obviously, it was a different experience. I got no recruits because you can't recruit anyone out of raided villages or hostile towns. But Sturgia's weakness is a separate thing from it being impossible to recover in general.
 
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