Recent comment by Callum spills the beans on Bannerlord combat in a really disheartening way.

[sniparsexe]

Threads like this, where you call attention to a dev's stray comment and pick it apart word by word, is a surefire way to get the devs to stop talking to us at all. Today's the first time in weeks that Callum has interacted on the forums except to post the patch notes and now his words are being used against him. Why would any dev talk candidly to us if this is this is how they get treated?

+1

 

[COOMER]

Aw Coomer, I thought you would throw your two cents into the jar.

You know very well what I throw into the jar

 

[Sidhwen_Khorest]

We are willing to sacrifice complexity for fast paced action. Which on its face is not really consistent with "medieval combat simulation" as also stated on the steam store.

I think an apt comparison here may be something like starcraft, where pros of the game take advantage of the many hotkeys and unit groupings that are possible, even if they are cumbersome to use, but the bulk of casual players just press F2(select all units) and attack. I think both are valid ways to play the game, and the option should be there for both.

 

[Old-Bull]

The OP is mess of whiny drivel connecting dots non existing.

Oh the sky is falling too.

He's got a point though. In my current 1.4.2 play through I haven't even reached day 400: both Sturgia and Western Empire are gone from the map.

Let them put out their shi++y, EA inspired, action fest designed for 12 year olds with no attention span. Someone will come up with a mod like Viking Conquest that saves their companies ass again.

 

[StewVader]

+1

Ah yes fear of hurting the community managers feelings, for a comment he made to the community, is reason enough not to discuss said comments. What an abject position to find yourself in.

 

[StewVader]

I think an apt comparison here may be something like starcraft, where pros of the game take advantage of the many hotkeys and unit groupings that are possible, even if they are cumbersome to use, but the bulk of casual players just press F2(select all units) and attack. I think both are valid ways to play the game, and the option should be there for both.

I agree 100%. The player agency should be paramount. Make the game for your try hard die hard fans who really want to get into it, and also make it available for people who just want to charge all units.

 

[remorse]

Threads like this, where you call attention to a dev's stray comment and pick it apart word by word, is a surefire way to get the devs to stop talking to us at all. Today's the first time in weeks that Callum has interacted on the forums except to post the patch notes and now his words are being used against him. Why would any dev talk candidly to us if this is this is how they get treated?

Was going to say the same thing.
This reaction is nuts.
At least give him the benefit of the doubt, please.
It's just a casual comment, not a ****ing mission statement.

 

[Ikea Knight]

Threads like this, where you call attention to a dev's stray comment and pick it apart word by word, is a surefire way to get the devs to stop talking to us at all. Today's the first time in weeks that Callum has interacted on the forums except to post the patch notes and now his words are being used against him. Why would any dev talk candidly to us if this is this is how they get treated?

On one hand you are right and I don't want to piss oft the devs, on the other hand it is an important issue for SP and a comment like this shouldn't just go by without any reaction.

How would you react to this?

 

[StewVader]

Was going to say the same thing.
This reaction is nuts.
At least give him the benefit of the doubt, please.
It's just a casual comment, not a ****ing mission statement.

The community managers comments to the community are up for discussion. How are some of you so afraid of upsetting them? I'm just at a loss for people with this position.

 

[StewVader]

On one hand you are right and I don't want to piss oft the devs, on the other hand it is an important issue for SP and a comment like this shouldn't just go by without any reaction.

How would you react to this?

I agree 100%. That was the impetus for creating this thread. I found the comment so explosive and so at odds with how I hoped combat would be developed I felt compelled to inform the greater community who might not have seen it.

 

[fragtzack]

The community managers comments to the community are up for discussion. How are some of you so afraid of upsetting them? I'm just at a loss for people with this position.

Your statement implies tis ok for you to pick apart a community manager but you don't want others to pick apart your posts. Is hypocrite the right topic? Maybe this...

 

[StewVader]

Your statement implies tis ok for you to pick apart a community manager but you don't want others to pick apart your posts. Is hypocrite the right topic? Maybe this...

What are you talking about? Cool meme, too bad it doesn't seem to apply here though. When did I say don't comment or critique my opinion? Its a discussion. Jeez people like you just make me sad.

 

[Because]

The community managers comments to the community are up for discussion. How are some of you so afraid of upsetting them? I'm just at a loss for people with this position.

Because the stand alone thread makes what may have been a one off statement into something that will rage all night and unless Callum checks in after he's finished work will give him a mountain of hostile comments to wade though in the morning.
As some people have commented there is not enough conversation between dev's and us rabble as is and I don't think threads like this will encourage more. Not saying that it's right that we should tread softly round them, but the reality is we don't get massive amounts of feedback now (no slight on the likes of mexxico who are responding at weekends etc) and I'd be keen to avoid spooking TW devs with the possibility that what MAY have been one poorly worded or thought out message produces a multi page sh**storm of angry players.
If it was my job to manage us lot I'd be inclined not to throw myself into trying to answer too many of the questions we ask as it causes more problems than it solves.

 

[sniparsexe]

Ah yes fear of hurting the community managers feelings, for a comment he made to the community, is reason enough not to discuss said comments. What an abject position to find yourself in.

Ah yes the guy who can understand my opinion about a subject from a +1

 

[froggyluv]

I find the sentiment of "please go easy on Devs or they'll never talk to us again" pretty pedantic. We are all adults here (playing video games!) and the community manager im sure can handle criticism of a vague statement which to some alters profoundly the supposed direction of the game we've all been waiting for. Same thing happens in the Ready Or Not Alpha -the community is literally starved for information for months on end and once in a while a Dev will pop their head in the discord and usually make some silly juvenile statement (not saying thats what callum did) and some will freak out like "wtf -where is our info!?" while others will staunchly white knight him "No leave him alone! He'll never come back!!' -the latter is a sorry state to say the least..

 

[black_bulldog]

There was never a cat in the bag. I have said this many times here before and its clear its going to be done many more times...

M&B was always a sandbox and nothing more. It was the mods that gave it depth and life. Releasing this game on Steam was clearly a major mistake. This is not a mainstream type of game and clearly many people bought it thinking it was something like Total War with better battles. Steam always tags games incorrectly and most people need to stop buying early access games because they think a game is one thing when it clearly isnt...happens so many times with so many games.

Those of you that want a better, deeper game should be focusing on getting TW to release their modding tools so we that make them can give you far more than even you expected from this game. Go look at the depth we already have up on Nexusmods, that is nothing compared to what we can do with the tools we know they will eventually release. Complete, total conversions with reworked leveling systems that make sense, far deeper economy, far deeper diplomacy, unlimited amount of quests, new maps, full control during battles including more/better formations, magic, pets we already know this is possible and we just need better tools. Hell, we know we can even create the missing wedding scene...demand the tools for us.

This pretty much sums it up.

 

[StewVader]

There was never a cat in the bag. I have said this many times here before and its clear its going to be done many more times...

M&B was always a sandbox and nothing more. It was the mods that gave it depth and life. Releasing this game on Steam was clearly a major mistake. This is not a mainstream type of game and clearly many people bought it thinking it was something like Total War with better battles. Steam always tags games incorrectly and most people need to stop buying early access games because they think a game is one thing when it clearly isnt...happens so many times with so many games.

Those of you that want a better, deeper game should be focusing on getting TW to release their modding tools so we that make them can give you far more than even you expected from this game. Go look at the depth we already have up on Nexusmods, that is nothing compared to what we can do with the tools we know they will eventually release. Complete, total conversions with reworked leveling systems that make sense, far deeper economy, far deeper diplomacy, unlimited amount of quests, new maps, full control during battles including more/better formations, magic, pets we already know this is possible and we just need better tools. Hell, we know we can even create the missing wedding scene...demand the tools for us.

I mostly agree with your sentiment. But I can't help but point out how they billed the game on the steam store, not in a steam tag:

"Mount & Blade II: Bannerlord is the eagerly awaited sequel to the acclaimed medieval combat simulator and role-playing game Mount & Blade: Warband. Set 200 years before, it expands both the detailed fighting system and the world of Calradia"

"Play the game the way you want to play it! Plot your own path to power in a dynamic sandbox adventure where no two playthroughs are the same." (HA! Yeah right, every play through is exactly the same)

Again this is their description. I don't see how anyone can argue the combat system has been expanded or how its a detailed fighting system.

I think many people expected more than just a foundation for modders as you suggest, and I don't think people are wrong for having expected more either.

 

[Kentucky 『 ＨＥＩＧＵＩ 』 James]

You know very well what I throw into the jar

Threads like this, where you call attention to a dev's stray comment and pick it apart word by word, is a surefire way to get the devs to stop talking to us at all. Today's the first time in weeks that Callum has interacted on the forums except to post the patch notes and now his words are being used against him. Why would any dev talk candidly to us if this is this is how they get treated?

I don't know if you were in the beta but there was months of patient and civil discussion about the issues with the game. It's been over a year since then. People are still here because they still want the game to be good. What's more, the recent drop in players has vindicated all the people who said that the game's direction was going to hurt long term sustainability. It's similar to how everyone with half a brain knew the Iraq War was a terrible idea, then got shut down by the press and NATO governments, only to be proven completely right mere months later. It's not unreasonable to get angry when you are proven right despite being told you're wrong by the people in charge.

And yes, I'm comparing Taleworlds to the worst geopolitical and military catastrophe of the current century.

 

[StewVader]

Because the stand alone thread makes what may have been a one off statement into something that will rage all night and unless Callum checks in after he's finished work will give him a mountain of hostile comments to wade though in the morning.
As some people have commented there is not enough conversation between dev's and us rabble as is and I don't think threads like this will encourage more. Not saying that it's right that we should tread softly round them, but the reality is we don't get massive amounts of feedback now (no slight on the likes of mexxico who are responding at weekends etc) and I'd be keen to avoid spooking TW devs with the possibility that what MAY have been one poorly worded or thought out message produces a multi page sh**storm of angry players.
If it was my job to manage us lot I'd be inclined not to throw myself into trying to answer too many of the questions we ask as it causes more problems than it solves.

I think what your saying would carry more weight with me, if they actually included the players in the development process, and even attempted to inform us of where they want to game to go and how they want it to be. We literally have no idea about their intentions, and I fear that is by design.

 

[Because]

The community is literally starved for information for months on end and once in a while a Dev will pop their head in the discord and usually make some silly juvenile statement (not saying thats what callum did) and some will freak out like "wtf -where is our info!?" while others will staunchly white knight him "No leave him alone! He'll never come back!!' -the latter is a sorry state to say the least..

I agree with you about the sentiment of the last bit, although I wouldn't dismiss it all as just white knighting as there is a certain weary level of pragmatism to it as well. Essentially I'd like more feedback from devs and while I don't think that Callum will be crying himself to sleep over this I also don't think it will encourage him to pop his head over the parapet and give us any more info on how things are progressing and the decisions being made.