Recent comment by Callum spills the beans on Bannerlord combat in a really disheartening way.

[Aggrobiscuit]

You are creating a straw man. I didn't say that was inaccurate. I said the game is billed as a "Strategy / Action RPG" on the steam page, in the ABOUT THIS GAME section. Its not billed as an ACTION RPG with "just elements of strategy sprinkled in here and there".

As I said, you can read into the comment as you like. I know what my take away is.

Like I said, action and strategy are not mutually exclusive terms. The game IS a strategy/action rpg. You can have it action light and strategy heavy, or vice versa. It's a hybrid genre, and you knew that before buying it.

 

[StewVader]

Like I said, action and strategy are not mutually exclusive terms. The game IS a strategy/action rpg. You can have it action light and strategy heavy, or vice versa. It's a hybrid genre, and you knew that before buying it.

So why did Callum say what he said? Action RPG with bits of strategy sprinkled in? I feel like we are splitting hairs here. We can agree to disagree.

 

[Aggrobiscuit]

So why did Callum say what he said? Action RPG with bits of strategy sprinkled in? I feel like we are splitting hairs here. We can agree to disagree.

I'd guess he described it that way, because that's what the game is, or that's his perception of it. Have you played Bannerlord yet?

 

[Because]

How is it out of context? Please substantiate your claim.

Technically by putting it in it's own thread you are completely removing it from the original context of the thread it was in.
More importantly Lord Irontoe's original point is the important one. We complain about lack of feedback from developers and then we pounce on them when they give it. Setting up an entire thread that people will jump on isn't going to encourage them to post anything else.
Not that I'm blaming you for doing it taken at face value it's a big statement, but I'd be interested to consider if Callum views Warband as an ARPG as well. I'd be interested in hearing a bit more of his thoughts on it all, but not enough that I want to discourage further feedback from devs.

 

[mikeboix]

Threads like this, where you call attention to a dev's stray comment and pick it apart word by word, is a surefire way to get the devs to stop talking to us at all. Today's the first time in weeks that Callum has interacted on the forums except to post the patch notes and now his words are being used against him. Why would any dev talk candidly to us if this is this is how they get treated?

Dude, he is a community manager. If he feels offended by this kind of posts and then he doesn't feels like posting anymore well, weird way of community managing.

 

[StewVader]

I'd guess he described it that way, because that's what the game is? Have you played Bannerlord yet?

Actually I have, and I think you would have a really hard time making the strategy argument. I think Callum's description is right on the money and thats why its so sad. It also explains the decisions they have made. This comment shows me where the game is going, and diminishes my expectations for more complex mechanics in combat.

 

[StewVader]

Technically by putting it in it's own thread you are completely removing it from the original context of the thread it was in.
More importantly Lord Irontoe's original point is the important one. We complain about lack of feedback from developers and then we pounce on them when they give it. Setting up an entire thread that people will jump on isn't going to encourage them to post anything else.
Not that I'm blaming you for doing it taken at face value it's a big statement, but I'd be interested to consider if Callum views Warband as an ARPG as well. I'd be interested in hearing a bit more of his thoughts on it all, but not enough that I want to discourage further feedback from devs.

I can see and appreciate your perspective.

 

[Because]

I can see your perspective.

Thank you : ) Like I said I could see yours and I'm interested to see where this all goes, but happy waiting to see if Callum clarifies things any before making any judgement.

 

[Aggrobiscuit]

Actually I have, and I think you would have a really hard time making the strategy argument.

Strategy (from Greek στρατηγία stratēgia, "art of troop leader; office of general, command, generalship"[1]) is a general plan to achieve one or more long-term or overall goals under conditions of uncertainty.

Strategy is a general term, so I don't think it would be hard at all.

The problem seems to be the game not allowing the player to do specific things, therefore it can't be a "proper strategy game", even though strategy must be used to navigate the game and battles.

Maybe everyone is moshpitting on easy mode? That's something I hadn't considered.

 

[StewVader]

Strategy (from Greek στρατηγία stratēgia, "art of troop leader; office of general, command, generalship"[1]) is a general plan to achieve one or more long-term or overall goals under conditions of uncertainty.

Strategy is a general term, so I don't think it would be hard at all.

The problem seems to be the game not allowing the player to do specific things, therefore it can't be a "proper strategy game", even though strategy must be used to navigate the game and battles.

Maybe everyone is moshpitting on easy mode? That's something I hadn't considered.

You know what sure. If you want to make that generous argument, I won't argue you any further. I'm glad you think there is plenty of strategy in this game's current combat. I suspect, many others will disagree.

 

[adrakken]

The cat is out of the bag now. Read into this comment how you like, I just thought people should be aware of this information.

There was never a cat in the bag. I have said this many times here before and its clear its going to be done many more times...

M&B was always a sandbox and nothing more. It was the mods that gave it depth and life. Releasing this game on Steam was clearly a major mistake. This is not a mainstream type of game and clearly many people bought it thinking it was something like Total War with better battles. Steam always tags games incorrectly and most people need to stop buying early access games because they think a game is one thing when it clearly isnt...happens so many times with so many games.

Those of you that want a better, deeper game should be focusing on getting TW to release their modding tools so we that make them can give you far more than even you expected from this game. Go look at the depth we already have up on Nexusmods, that is nothing compared to what we can do with the tools we know they will eventually release. Complete, total conversions with reworked leveling systems that make sense, far deeper economy, far deeper diplomacy, unlimited amount of quests, new maps, full control during battles including more/better formations, magic, pets we already know this is possible and we just need better tools. Hell, we know we can even create the missing wedding scene...demand the tools for us.

 

[Sidhwen_Khorest]

but happy waiting to see if Callum clarifies things any before making any judgement.

Yes, lets wait and see what the response is. I'm sure the flurry of responses will be a big surprise tomorrow morning

I mean who knows, maybe it is just being misconstrued here, the mod he is referring to in that threads OP does actually look complex enough that it would seem clunky to some. but we're mount and blade players! clunky is our middle name and you will always have the option of F1+F3

 

[fragtzack]

The OP is mess of whiny drivel connecting dots non existing.

Oh the sky is falling too.

 

[StewVader]

Yes, lets wait and see what the response is. I'm sure the flurry of responses will be a big surprise tomorrow morning

I mean who knows, maybe it is just being misconstrued here, the mod he is referring to in that threads OP does actually look complex enough that it would seem clunky to some. but we're mount and blade players! clunky is our middle name and you will always have the option of F1+F3

His comment makes a lot of sense to me when you look at the game and how the battles were developed. And in that thread and this one, I think people take issue with the idea:

We are willing to sacrifice complexity for fast paced action. Which on its face is not really consistent with "medieval combat simulation" as also stated on the steam store.

I am also not trying to take it out of context, I linked the thread, so people can go read the context. I suppose I am poking the bear with this thread, alas it is my nature.

 

[StewVader]

The OP is mess of whiny drivel connecting dots non existing.

Oh the sky is falling too.

Ah yes. Great comment.

 

[Aggrobiscuit]

You know what sure. If you want to make that generous argument, I won't argue you any further. I'm glad you think there is plenty of strategy in this game's current combat. I suspect, many others will disagree.

You seem to be creating the straw man, I never said the game had plenty of strategy, please show me where I did. I said it's a strategy game as described, because it is.

By the way, I still haven't seen any actual reasons why this isn't a strategy game. Is it because the game is missing phalanxes and other things people fetishize?

 

[COOMER]

Don't mind me, I'm just here for the kek.
kek

 

[StewVader]

You seem to be creating the straw man, I never said the game had plenty of strategy, please show me where I did. I said it's a strategy game as described, because it is.

Fair point, I did in fact commit a straw man fallacy; guilty as charged. In my opinion, I suppose a self proclaimed and billed strategy game should probably have some actually need for strategy in it though.

 

[Nakh]

Well, if Bannerlord supposed to be mainly an RPG game, then current game state is utter disaster. RPG elements (quests, NPC) very weak, main character and companions progression is a bloody mess, and I don't even want to talk about storyline.

Currently game is mediocre field commander simulator, how TW plan to make a proper RPG game from this mess - great mystery for me.

 

[StewVader]

Don't mind me, I'm just here for the kek.
kek

Aw Coomer, I thought you would throw your two cents into the jar.