[reason found] Problem with helmet mesh: looks "twisted" ingame.

[prowokator]

I ran to this problem for the first time:

I modelled a helmet and started texturing. After a while I wanted to check how it looks ingame. When I exported it from 3ds Max I triangulated it at that point (has worked fine before). I imported it to BRFEdit, added the texture, made a material. Everything looks fine (well except the texture isn't yet finished).
But here is how it looks ingame:

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The mesh is twisted in weird way, although it looked fine in every step before.

Could this be becouse the stud's mesh overlaps with the helmet's facepiece mesh? Any ideas/solutions? That spot on both sides of the helmet has the same problem.. I don't think it is becouse of the overlapping meshes as it works fine in other areas of the helmet.

EDIT: The reason for the mesh to deform ingame was the players head. Depending on how the character looks like, the helmet model is deformed to "fit better" or something - and this made the face grid get deformed. Only solution to the problem I found was to modify the helmet model so that the face grid is further away from the characters face so that the deformation isn't so strong and obvious.

If anyone comes up with an idea how to make a helmet model not to be affected by the head meshe's deformations, post a reply. Thanks.

 

[Barf]

After looking at it this thread for about 10 minutes and trying to think of ways to help you out....I am stumped.
The only thing I can think of is importing the obj back into 3ds and taking a look at it to see if there's any strange triangulation, fix it if there is but even if you don't notice anything strange
you should export the obj you just imported and use that. Max resets a whole bunch of things on an imported obj and that might help. (changes vertex numbering and a whole bunch of technical doo-doo).
Doing this has saved my meshes before.

 

[Stumpfgobs]

Re-import the obj into 3dmax and check if there are overlapping vertices or hidden polygons. It also could be because you made the UVW map too tight. 3dmax (or gmax) as well as brfedit have knack for not showing some of the glitches you will find once you start using the models in game.

 

[James]

In Wings, at least, there's an option to 'cleanup'. I've found that helps clear up a lot of problems.

 

[prowokator]

Didn't find any weird/unwanted vertices and triangulation seemed fine too.. Really weird problem..  I tried to scale up the UWV map for the part that had messed mesh ingame, and I tried to scale up the actual mesh too... No luck. Back to the start I guess then If someone gets any more ideas where the prob might be I'm all ears. Thanks for the tips, maybe they work in some other case

 

[GetAssista]

Cut off problematic parts and redraw them with a bit different poly structure. With small # of polys first

 

[Zandman]

Could there be some kind of "scale to fit" issue ingame?
I know there's an option for that, but not if it could have this kind of effect on your helmet (which looks very cool, by the way).

Just a thought.

 

[prowokator]

Could there be some kind of "scale to fit" issue ingame?
I know there's an option for that, but not if it could have this kind of effect on your helmet (which looks very cool, by the way).

Just a thought.

What's that "scale to fit" issue thingy? Do you mean like the game engine tries to scale the model somehow? (or am I totally lost here )

 

[Zandman]

All that I know, is that that there exists a "scale to fit head" option in Item Editor (a checkbox that I've never dared to touch).

That's just the only thing I could think of that could deform your model and make it look that different from what it did in BRF Edit. I don't know how you've worked and how you've added the model to the game, but I thought I'd just put the idea out there.

 

[Teshin]

Btw, do helmets need rigging before they can be put ingame?

 

[Zandman]

Btw, do helmets need rigging before they can be put ingame?

Nope. Absolutely not.

All they need is proper placement. And orientation. And size.

 

[nema]

Could there be some kind of "scale to fit" issue ingame?
I know there's an option for that, but not if it could have this kind of effect on your helmet (which looks very cool, by the way).

Just a thought.

Helmets are fitted to base head mesh. Same as hairs. You can change head in editor, but hairs and helmets will always follow that changes. But it is hard to say if upper problem comes from ingame fitting.

 

[prowokator]

I found out what the reason for this "problem" was.. It is the player's head mesh as had been suggested. Changing the looks of the character "fixes" or makes the distortion of the helmet mesh even worse.. It can be clearly seen with the original nordic helmet in M&B too.. Kinda weird that there is no tick box for forcing the helmet/hair mesh to not be affected by the characters looks. Except the "covers head" tick box which isn't really suitable here as then the char would have no head at all.. Only solution I came up with was to experiment how much I can scale the model up (mostly on lenght axis) that it is far away enough from the characters face so that the distortion the player head mesh does is minor.. Good thing the model doesn't look too bad. This is a thing I had no idea I would need to take in account when creating the helmet model in first place.. Next time I'll be wiser   Thanks for help you all 

 

[HokieBT]

As Zanderman mentioned, have you tried seeing if the "itp_fit_to_head" flag has any effect?

 

[Zandman]

[...] Kinda weird that there is no tick box for forcing the helmet/hair mesh to not be affected by the characters looks.

That's exactly where I first noticed it: there IS a tick box in Item Editor.
If you open up your helmet using Item Editor, you could uncheck the box "itp_fit_to_head" like Hokie said. You don't have to have that box checked to PLACE the helmet, remember - that happens automatically if your model is placed correctly while you modeled it.

 

[prowokator]

Yes my helmet is correctly placed and modelled - and having that box ticked or not doesn't change anything. What I mean is there should be an option that would make the helmet mesh completely ignore the head deformations. ATM there isn't (atleast not in item editor).

The "fit to head" doesn't have any effect in my case. Only thing that makes the helmet "rigid" or undeformable is to tick the "covers head" but then the character loses his head Best way I found to work around is to scale the model on leght axis so that the helmet's face grid is further away from the character's face so that the deformations are not so clearly seen/strong.

Here's a little peek how it looks now (I made a new model as I wanted to be sure it wasn't the models fault in the first place)

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[Barf]

RISE FROM THE GRAVE!

Sorry this is my first necro.

This can now be solved in warband, albeit only using a cheat (there really should be an itp for this).
Since multimesh works for helms now and the deformations only effect the first object in a multimesh you can have
the first model as a single floating vertice, and the actual helm attached as a multimesh, which will make it ignore the deformation of the face.

 

[johncage]

how to implement multimeshes into openbrf? thanks

 

[Barf]

helmet_barf      (the original mesh name)

helmet_barf.1    (the first multimesh)

helmet_barf.2      (the second)

and so on an so forth for as many multi-meshes as you want....I dunno what the limit is but I seen em go past 20 so.

 

[Arch3r]

Barf, thanks for that cheat thing, it has bothered me as well.

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<3