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Realism

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Doofus

Veteran
Posting this here because I'm not posting as a discussion for players, I'm posting as suggestions for programmers.

I like the style of play, but I have a tough time getting into the game itself. I love Warband, but this game just doesn't seem right, and part of that is the realism, or lack of...

1) Lets talk armor/equipment. Pretty much all armor recovered from the battlefield after winning a fight is damaged. I use the term damaged loosely, because a lot of it is rusty. Should armor be rusty? Unless you are fighting bandits, its unlikely. Lesser soldiers kept their best equipment in good shape. It may have been an heirloom of the family or maybe the one good piece they could afford. Lords had squires and such taking care of their equipment and it certainly wouldn't be rusty entering battle. How about damage? Its reasonable that equipment gets damaged in battle. A stab through the chest would certainly harm the chestplate. A blow to the head could dent the helm. But all armor??? Its silly. Then you have the problem of repairing the armor. In olden days you paid a blacksmith to repair it. You might do routine maintenance on it, but actual repairs would be done by a skilled professional. I don't know about others, but I don't play the game to do crafting. I don't mind paying someone to fux it, but its supposed to be a game of conquest, not Minecraft.

2) Now lets look at the tournaments. Note that every tournament says it is a melee group tournament. Yet half the time I'm using some ranged weapon that puts me at a distinct disadvantage or I have to fight 2 guys with swords and shields with my knife and no shield. Also, a lot is using spears on horseback. That may be realistic for a tournament, but its not melee.

3) Marriage/children. While it was fairly simple, I liked Warband because you could court your wife winning her favor. If you want realism, I'll agree a lot of arranged marriages were made among the nobility in olden times. But when that was done, it was more between the parents and the children, particularly the female, wasn't even involved. However, if you want a woman deciding to marry you because she likes you, then give me a way of courting her. Asking 5 or 6 questions doesn't cut it. Typically when you marry her she doesn't even smile at you. She starts at a 0 relationship and the only way I know to improve that is playing a game with her, or saving her ass when she is in a battle that you didn't start with her. I increased my relationship with one wife before she died from 0 to 43 playing tablut. You know how many games that took? I don't, but I could guess maybe 75. I don't mind tablut, but that was ridiculous. I did it hoping maybe a better relationship would give a better chance of children. It didn't. That is another problem. From what I can tell maybe 75% of marriages don't result in children. At least my last 4 haven't. In olden days when a lord married it was for 2 purposes; improved relations with the other family and to get heirs, ideally male heirs. If none of the females are going to have children, what's the point?

I have more to add, but I have to step away. I'll add it later.
 

Doofus

Veteran
Neretzes Folly

I'll admit I haven't completed the Neretzes Folly quest in a while, but I'll comment on that too with the assumption things haven't changed much. This is your main quest line, so it should be a focus. Unfortunately, there is no advantage to doing the quest and if you do it you are making the game harder. Why?

1) There should be a reward for completing the main quest, but as far as I know the only 'reward' is that you can start your own kingdom at a lower clan level (3 instead of 4). But if you look at this, by doing this the Devs are acknowledging you have the capability to form your own kingdom at level 3 already, since the quest provides no actual bonuses to help with this. Therefore, they really aren't rewarding the player who completes it at all; they are penalyzing the player who doesn't by forbidding him from starting his own kingdom when he is ready. Why would a player decide not to complete the quest? Lets look at this.

2) The central figures in the quest favor one side or the other (Empire vs non-empire). When you complete the quest the one who favors the side you chose says if you need them they'll help you. But as far as I can tell you never see them after that.

3) The other central figure (empire vs non-empire) throws a hissy fit that you didn't choose their side and then starts a conspiracy against you. You are given plenty of advance warning, but as far as I know there isn't a way to block the conspiracy (short of eliminating the conspiracy kingdoms). I even tried hunting down the enemy figure with the goal of executing them, but there seemed no way to do this). So the conspiracy goes through and multiple factions attack you all at once for no reason other than you having completed the quest.

4) If you choose to complete the quest by giving the banner to another lord, the other lord says you've done the best thing anyone has ever done for him/her before. But, the faction you gave it to gains no advantages I can see. And even though they said its the best thing you've ever done for them you relationship with that leader and with the faction doesn't change at all. You don't gain favor. You don't have them showing favoritism when awarding towns/castles. Nothing.

So basically, there is no advantage to even having the quest in the game unless you really want the game harder. Is this really what you want players to get out of your main quest? Do you really want most players to ignore a quest you are given before the game even begins?

If you want realism, completion of the quest should result in an increased relation with all lords or clans in the kingdom you gave the banner to or, if you choose to start your own kingdom, it should add bonuses to morale of your troops and encourage other lords/clans to join your kingdom. If you are imaginative, it should perhaps give other bonuses, such as a special banner guard group that joins you or something like that. There should also be a way to stop the conspiracy from happening once you learn of it.
 

Doofus

Veteran
Lets talk quests

1) The tool quest is stupid. I took it once assuming I just needed to buy some hammers or hoes or something. So I went to a town, bought some stuff, and took it back to the guy. Nothing. So I looked it up. Apparently I'm supposed to make something called tools. Hammers, hoes, and axes apparently aren't tools. Really? See above. I play the game as a warlord not a crafter. This is a poor attempt to force me to do smithing because if I own a village that wants tools I'm penalized if I don't provide them.

2) Need Seed Grain. It used to be the quest giver would say they need seed and can't afford the amount places charge to buy the seed. Then, when you provide the seed he gives you more money than anyplace charges you for it. While it was nice to get the extra money, I'll admit it made no sense. Now they changed it. Kind of the same quest line, only instead of him giving you too much money, now he gives you nothing. Huh? He may be poor, but saving the lives of his villagers means nothing to him? I don't mind being poorly compensated, but not being compensated at all isn't realistic either. The only way I will do this quest now is if its the village of one of my towns and I need to improve relations.

3) I'm a little unsure which this was, but one of the quests I talked to a guy about was, I think, the bandit camp quest. I always do these myself, but at one point recently it gave me the option of having a companion do it with some troops that would keep them occupied for 20 days. 2 days? Really? If it takes me less than a day to do it, then a companion shouldn't take more than 2 days (1 to scout it out & another to complete it). Some of the quests are OK, but too many of the quests take too long to complete.

4) Defeat bandit raiders quest. Forget exactly what its called, but the quest where the area is supposedly overrun with bandits and they want you to defeat so many groups (sometimes as many as :cool: is inconsistent and generally not logical. If things are that bad, you shouldn't have a difficult time finding enough groups to defeat in the required time (30 days?). I try to avoid the quest a lot because I have better ways to waste my time, but there has been at least a few times its taken me over 20 days to find enough targets to complete it. This isn't a case of me taking so much damage I took time to rest between engaging groups. I simply couldn't find targets. The other problem, especially when you first start the game is that the bandits are as fast, or faster than you are. Sometimes I either can't catch up to them or, by the time I do, they are so far away from the village they are no longer a valid target for the quest.
 

Doofus

Veteran
A couple final topics:

1) When you own a town and it runs out of food, there aren't a lot of ways to solve this. You should be able to just contribute food to the town. There have been 4 or 5 times at least where the town is hampered in its prosperity, loyalty, etc because of food problems and I've had 300-400 food on me, but no way to give it to them. Sometimes the town even has grain villages where I could buy the food, but the town doesn't have enough.

2) The game should have relations between kingdoms and there should be reasonable ways to influence this. I have had situations where my wife came from a kingdom, I did various quests and things for the kingdom and the lords in it, but as soon as I show a little weakness they declare war. In another situation I also had a wife from the kingdom, was a mercenary for the kingdom for a long time and had good relations with almost all the clans, but as soon as I lost a battle with the kingdom that was their biggest rival, they declared war on me within 2-3 seconds. This was when the only town I had still had a defense of close to 400 (it may not have been real strong, but it certainly wasn't weak either). There should be an alliance system in the game. While an alliance may not be a firm binding agreement, it could at least be a factor in how kingdoms react and how quickly they react to situations.
 
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