Realism or Arcade

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http://www.rcpsg.ac.uk/hdrg/2006Nov3.htm

A couple of centuries out of M&B's period, but that strikes me as fairly advanced surgery.

Also, 'tis moderately amusing how xenoargh's link about how terrible medieval medicine was doesn't actually imply anything of the sort. And as for being female, I'd let his source speak:

Women were given opportunity for higher education at nearly all the Italian universities and even became professors from the 12th century on. The later Middle Ages was particularly active for women in education. The application of women to medical studies was actually encouraged in the 12th to 14th centuries, many studying and teaching and writing on medicine.

The best known female physician was Trotula, at Salerno, and many texts were attributed to her, though most probably by disciples of hers. Other female professors at Salerno included Mercuriade "On Crises in Pestilent Fever" and "The Cure of Wounds," Rebecca Guarna "On Fevers" and "On the Urine" and "On the Embryo," Abella gained a reputation with "On Black Bile" and "The Nature of Seminal Fluid" all of which show that the women's studies were not limited to female ailments.

Licenses for women to practice medicine that are preserved in the Archive of Naples make no limitations on their practice, but do emphasize the propriety and suitability of women treating women's diseases.

The Benedictine convents for women, inspired by St. Benedict's sister Scholastica, pursued the intellectual life as well as the spiritual, just as the male orders and like other monastic establishments were active in providing medical care. They gathered simples, treated ordinary ailments and encouraged healing states of mind.

St. Hildegarde, a Benedictine Abbess, wrote perhaps the most important book on medicine that survives from the 12th century and had a wide correspondence with leading lights of the period. Her works include "Liber Simplicis Medicinae" and "Liber Compositae Medicinae." From Salerno, medical education for women spread to Bologna at the beginning of the 13th century, including Alessandra Giliani who assisted Mondino's dissection instruction.

Women were evidently also practicing medicine and surgery in France on the evidence of a 1311 edict, and later edicts, that forbade women to practice medicine without being examined by a standard board of appointed masters. Guy de Chauliac also speaks of female surgeons. It was not until the 16th cent that the practice of medicine by women all but disappeared. However, women in France weren't encouraged as they were in Italy, perhaps because of an incident early in the history of the University of Paris. (HŽloise-AbŽlard incident).

Wow, you mean women would have more opportunities they did in the supposedly patriarchal and misogynist societies of the Middle Ages than they would in more modern times? Forgive me if I'm wrong, but this really doesn't seem to contribute to his line of argument.

There's more crap in his examples, but I do agree with the gist of it. A game that is a total simulation would necessarily be limited to a niche audience and be terrible for a mass market. Unfortunately, he's constructed a total strawman.

The point is that nobody here wants that sort of total realism.  If it's authentic and relevant while not really affecting gameplay, it should go in. The devs have already demonstrated that they play fast and loose with this rule by adopting a more inclusive approach, since people get butthurt when they don't see their favourite tropes.

If it's fun or it makes sense in a gameplay context, it goes in. Chamberblocking is a classic example: more risk, more skill, more reward.

If it isn't, it might serve as a punishment mechanic. Getting your avatar killed is part and parcel of the learning process in playing a game. Your guy died from dysentery? Tough ****, maybe you shouldn't be drinking from a river downstream of any settlements. Small beer and watered wine is there for a reason. He caught an arrow in his nuts? Hey, maybe he shouldn't be charging that line of archers in his underpants! Got an infected wound? Funny how there's this thing called armour and an immune system, isn't it? Or hey, maybe some of that primitive medicine might actually help, I dunno, it sure helped that goddamn prince in the link I posted. Maybe that'll teach you not to pick a fight that you can't win, eh?
 
Perhaps have an realism mode? With realistic damage. As in a trust in chest insta-kills, a drop from too high insta kills. A horse beeing cut falls down.

Realism beats Arcade anytime for me.
 
Allow me to make a totally sane, called for and constructive comment.

Omzdog, go jump in a boil-OHNOABOUTTOEXPLODE-ing nuclear reactor. ASAP.

Firstly, you keep yaddering: OH NO I AINT FORCING REALISM ON ANYBODY. I JUST WANT IT FOR MAHSELF, I'M JUST A SIMPLEHTON. WHY WHY WHY. And we keep replying: DUMMKOPF, CHECK OPTIONS, IT ZIS POSSIBLE TO REMOVE ZE CROSSHAIR.

Secondly, you also keep blathering: "Oh noez, I want realism. We can't shoot without practice in real life, don't lemme shoot without practice here." To which I will reply: "Have you ever considered the muscle development to wield a sword, ax, and spear is vastly different? And that shields are a tad bit heavier than 1kg? And also that hell, even moving in armor is very restricting on the average I_AM_LEET gamer?"

Thirdly, you whine: "Oh, that horse just BRUSHED me. I flew over 9000 km and died from the realistic physics I dream about." And my sane, called for and constructive comment here is: "Try getting "Brushed" by a crossbow bolt. Or a moving plane's wing. Hell, even a charging elephant's foreleg. Going to tell me you can hulk it out?"

And now to save the rest of my highly constructive, called for by the eloquence of the almighty Omzdog and most definitely not disrespectful comments towards the book "Theory on Physics in Real Life and Games", written by none other than the great Omzdog.
 
:lol:
Wow this guy is horrible at arguing.
Calm yourself and come back when your ready to argue some real points instead of fail to assassinate my character.
 
If you strip away the fancy caps there and sarcasm, Omzdog, you get my points. You've been talking about stuff and repeating it while ignoring Arch's and some other people's voices about how YOU can disable it for yourself, thus not forcing others to do so, but you seem to refuse to.

Also, if counter strike is realistic, I think I'll start bunny hopping instead of sprinting IRL. At the same time, I must be very careful and watch out, for a single bullet anywhere on my body is instakill due to AWP. /sadface.

You want a realistic game? Play real life. The whole point of a -GAME- is to NOT be realistic. What your looking for is a simulator, which all have epic proportions of fail.
 
I really don't see why you care what other people are playing?

Anf MnB is probably one of the most realistic/immersive medieval combat games ever. Just be happy they made it :smile:
 
waggywags 说:
Also, if counter strike is realistic, I think I'll start bunny hopping instead of sprinting IRL.

Hmm, pogo sticks as a way to bypass the morning commute crush. It's a crazy idea, but it might just work ...
 
I haven't been ignoring anybody's arguments excluding yours waggywags.
I simply said that the realistic aspects of WB should be developed properly and we shouldn't see WB be a game centered on arcade and quick fun and immediate satisfaction.

We already established that I'm not trying to force people to play in a certain way. Try reading the last few pages. I can't and shouldn't be bothered to keep you up to speed with the argument.
 
Omzdog 说:
I think the right thing to do is to remove the aiming thing (still can't ******** remember) while retaining its accuracy.

Oh my gosh. Finally! Remove tha aimahs!
 
Can't tell if your serious but in order to make the game more realistic or at least have some realistic version of it, the crosshair must go.
 
I'd say its pretty realistic now. What I don't understand, is why your not satisfied with turning it off ingame. Why do you have to remove crosshairs from the game entirely? Because its realistic? If you want realism, turn it off. If you don't, leave it on. Why does it have to be removed for the players that don't want it to be removed?


Idea!  Maybe a server option? That would be cool as long as admins aren't *****es.
 
If you remove cross-hairs most people still stop playing the game except for guys like Omzdog and do you really want to play with a bunch of dudes like that?

Why not remove the entire GUI while you're at it.

Just forget about all the people who play M&B because it's a fun game that just happens to be in a medieval setting and cater to the 'sperglords 100%. Forget about the people who don't hang out at the SCA and get in arguments over armour and whether a 21 meter sword is better then a 21.5 meter sword. Realism automatically makes things more fun, right?

A game option would be fine. But forcing cross-hairs off for everyone would be a disaster.
 
Read the ****ing thread. Stop making yourselves look like dumbasses.
I've already said a server option would be the best way to do it. You could set up realism servers for people to join so that people have a choice.

I don't want to just force people to play without a crosshair. Do we have that straight?
 
The crosshairs aren't much of an issue.  Medieval archers would use the arrow shaft and broadhead to aim.
 
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