Real speed run this time. (Finished - 162 days)
- 主题发起人 bakters
- 开始时间
正在查看此主题的用户
deutrino
Regular
This is sad. I thought you will make it work somehow. The limitations of the speedrun I guess.bakters 说:
I'm afraid I kinda lost track here.bakters 说:
Can you tell us what are your starting points exactly? And the skill points you plan to put on your character, including all combat skills, leader skills and weap.prof.? Something nice and easy to read like this post:
bakters 说:
Rallix 说:
Not if you're hungry for skill points.
bakters
Knight
I have no doubts I could make it work. From this point in game I would only get more powerful and rich. The save is still live, so it's even possible to finish the game, but I see not reason for it. I simply expect to be slower than with my current build.deutrino 说:
OK, so let's clear this all up.deutrino 说:
I started again, and this time I used lessons learned from former build and adjusted my strategy accordingly.
First, I invested two points in Prisoner Management right away, as I found out that I need more money early on to be really fast. (I started in Praven fruitlessly hoping for a tournament, then found a bent jousting lance in Suno, which I quickly managed to exchange for a balanced one, and was knocking sea riders unconciouns ever since.)
Second correction was to start with a female version of my former build, who starts with a spirited courser. This thing is just great. I almost never get hit by missiles.
The rest of my early strategy remains the same. I started with STR-10/AGI-7/INT-something/CHA-6 and I pump INT up at every level-up. I don't remember exact proficiencies, just that they were lower than a male version of this build starts with.
If you are really interested and don't have the game to do it yourself, I can start two more characters and see how exactly they compare. The differences aren't huge, beside the lady starting with a dagger instead of a rusty sword and spirited courser instead of a swayback saddle horse.
So my plan is to simply pump up INT all the way throughout the game, and concentrate on crossbow and one-handed proficiencies. Obviously I can't tell where I will end up. I don't know how you could tell what your profs are going to be without knowing which weapon will do most of the killing, but judging by my former plays I obviously suspect that the crossbow will be my main weapon, with one-handers a few steps behind if I prioritize them in the field, or maybe polearms if I won't do that. I'm still not 100% committed to one-handers.
And in case my former build turns out to be faster, I can come back to it. I didn't delete the save. I don't expect that, but stranger things happened...
P.S. - It's too late to turn the computer on, but tomorrow I will edit this post with my current stats. I'm not sure you wanted that, but since it's no problem I will do that.
bakters
Knight
I play with fresh installation of 1.143 and Diplomacy 4.2, no tweaks. And actually I remember I still didn't max every party skill I wanted, and definitely I could pump Trainer skill much further. Not even talking about my shield skill (0) and Ironflesh (0).Rallix 说:
I will try to find and setup some photo hosting account and maybe put out some screenshots.
H0lgers0n
Recruit
I did a speedrun on native max difficulty no mods accidently. I don`t know exactly how many day´s it took but it was really fast.
Character:
Out of curiosity I started a Character without any combat skills. I thougt oh that might be challenging but it was quite the opposite. As far as I can remember the starting Setting was female - noble - assistant - lady - forced out - Swadia. I started the Game with Riding 4, the spirited crouser (very important), STR 6 and AGI 6.
All attribute points went into INT till i got 30(+1 from Book) and the rest into CHA. I maxed Trainer/Pathfinding/Surgery/Engineer/Persuation/Leadership. Inventory/Wound Treatment/Spotting/Tactics and the other Partyskills 5 or 2 Points and absolutely no skillpoints into combatskills or Prisonermanagement (I think I had only Weaponmaster 1).
Strategy Tips
1. No Companions! They steal too much Loot, XP and with an INT focused non combat character you don`t need them anyway. Use them only to increase your right to rule or as minister.
2. Get a Lance as soon as possible! With STR 6 and only light amor (Brigandine) melee combat is very very risky. On foot it is even worse because you are very slow without athletics and you have to move and hide all the time. Staying alive is allways your first priority. Speed and movement is your defense. Stay with the crouser horses, keep your Character as light as possible and don`t use a Shield. It just slows you down and with no skillpoints and AGI 6 a shield is not very usefull.
3. Use the Hunting Crossbow in melee combat (headshot the enemy when they drop the shield to attack you) and on Horseback against enemys without range weapons. Stop your horse - headshot- ride away+reload - stop your horse...
4. Circle Enemys with range weapons at full speed till they run out of ammo. Circle enemys when your troops are weak, lance or Xbow them to death on your own or lure them away to prevent casulties before you maxed out surgery.
5. Participate only in tournaments where you can get a horse to escape enemy mobs. Use the F-keys to direct your tournament-team.
6. Join a loosing fraction and recover as much toptier prisoners as possible from the enemy
7. With high CHA, leadership, surgery and constant fighting your have no need for extra money, special food or anything else. You can allmost ignore moral issues when your troops are fighting their own fractions and substain a large toptier army with ease.
8. No enterprises. Enterprises need 10 (in Rivacheg) to 20 Weeks before you make the first profit from your investment. I had some Enterprises but the Money was totaly wasted because I finished the game too fast.
9. Marry a Lord with good siegetroops early and use your husband to accompany you to siege weak castles with toptier prisoners
10. Allways stay on the move, give all castles or towns to lords and use what every you can find/efford to reinforce your army without making any detours for recruting.
It is a high risk - high reward playstyle but it is very effective. You siege fast, you move fast, you level fast, you can persuade Lords who own towns/castles to join you without fighting and you need no detours to make money or substain your army. Like I said I started a "challenging" game and it ended accidently in a Speedrun.
Character:
Out of curiosity I started a Character without any combat skills. I thougt oh that might be challenging but it was quite the opposite. As far as I can remember the starting Setting was female - noble - assistant - lady - forced out - Swadia. I started the Game with Riding 4, the spirited crouser (very important), STR 6 and AGI 6.
All attribute points went into INT till i got 30(+1 from Book) and the rest into CHA. I maxed Trainer/Pathfinding/Surgery/Engineer/Persuation/Leadership. Inventory/Wound Treatment/Spotting/Tactics and the other Partyskills 5 or 2 Points and absolutely no skillpoints into combatskills or Prisonermanagement (I think I had only Weaponmaster 1).
Strategy Tips
1. No Companions! They steal too much Loot, XP and with an INT focused non combat character you don`t need them anyway. Use them only to increase your right to rule or as minister.
2. Get a Lance as soon as possible! With STR 6 and only light amor (Brigandine) melee combat is very very risky. On foot it is even worse because you are very slow without athletics and you have to move and hide all the time. Staying alive is allways your first priority. Speed and movement is your defense. Stay with the crouser horses, keep your Character as light as possible and don`t use a Shield. It just slows you down and with no skillpoints and AGI 6 a shield is not very usefull.
3. Use the Hunting Crossbow in melee combat (headshot the enemy when they drop the shield to attack you) and on Horseback against enemys without range weapons. Stop your horse - headshot- ride away+reload - stop your horse...
4. Circle Enemys with range weapons at full speed till they run out of ammo. Circle enemys when your troops are weak, lance or Xbow them to death on your own or lure them away to prevent casulties before you maxed out surgery.
5. Participate only in tournaments where you can get a horse to escape enemy mobs. Use the F-keys to direct your tournament-team.
6. Join a loosing fraction and recover as much toptier prisoners as possible from the enemy
7. With high CHA, leadership, surgery and constant fighting your have no need for extra money, special food or anything else. You can allmost ignore moral issues when your troops are fighting their own fractions and substain a large toptier army with ease.
8. No enterprises. Enterprises need 10 (in Rivacheg) to 20 Weeks before you make the first profit from your investment. I had some Enterprises but the Money was totaly wasted because I finished the game too fast.
9. Marry a Lord with good siegetroops early and use your husband to accompany you to siege weak castles with toptier prisoners
10. Allways stay on the move, give all castles or towns to lords and use what every you can find/efford to reinforce your army without making any detours for recruting.
It is a high risk - high reward playstyle but it is very effective. You siege fast, you move fast, you level fast, you can persuade Lords who own towns/castles to join you without fighting and you need no detours to make money or substain your army. Like I said I started a "challenging" game and it ended accidently in a Speedrun.
bakters
Knight
In my normal games I invested more points into combat and I was playing as a mounted archer, simply because it's much more fun, until you get bored with that and want some real challenge.Rallix 说:
Regarding current games, I play the way I play because I want leader bonuses, and because I want a fully functional party as quick as possible. Some extra troops would be nice to have,but I can get there with renown farming. I can't get bonuses, especially early on, until I pump my INT all the time.
I agree with pretty much everything you wrote here. In many places you played exactly how I do it, and differences would need testing to see which approach is better. Your style seems viable to me.H0lgers0n 说:
But, I do several things differently. Here's why.
1. I take companions, and if I could I would take all of them. They do two things for me. They serve as my only ranged support. I have no time or slots for archers, so they have to do. And more importantly they are my trainers. I build them as trainers from day one. In my current game they will also serve as backup medics.
1.1 What follows, I need money early to equip them, and for that I prefer to waste two points on Prisoner Management. I tried to play without it, and I wasted two points anyway on medical skills.
2. I use armored horses and a shield in field battles. As an archer I preferred quick horses and no shield, but now I wouldn't train my proficiencies without closing in, and for that I like to have a shield. It actually helps sometimes.
3. I don't put any points in CHA. I learned how to play that way in one of my voluntary challenge runs where I decided to go with starting Leadership.
4. I started an enterprise in Rivacheg. 10K is not all that much when compared to the cost of equipment for all my companions, and it gives me an option to survive a time of peace without disbanding my troops. Prisoner management serves as a similar precaution. Not strictly necessary, but it comes in very handy at times.
5. No marriage, no RtR, although I should probably reconsider marriage. I just simply have no patience for dealing with lords, but I can see that a skilled use of them will probably speed up the game.
Well, nobody's perfect. I'm not a diplomat, I'm a crusher.
bakters
Knight
So I ground my way up again to roughly about the same point where I left my former save. The day is 58 (I think) and I took Durquba a few days ago. Overall this build serves me better. Mainly due to money I managed to gather during early grind, which allowed me to buy books.
It may seem that the end result is roughly about the same, because in both cases I took a town around day 55, but this time I was less lucky, so I had to work for it. I didn't have knights, and not too many lancers. I was fighting very strong Sarranid forces (loads of top level units), instead of pushover Nords and I had to weaken them pretty much alone. Swadians were much more helpful in my former game.
So in the end, despite similar results I do think that extra money for books and the army from the get go is worth two points into prisoner management.
The plan is to capture several Sarranid fiefs before war's end, but I have to wait for a decision, because AI will stupidly forget my former conquests. For this type of game it's really an annoying bug, if there ever was one.
It may seem that the end result is roughly about the same, because in both cases I took a town around day 55, but this time I was less lucky, so I had to work for it. I didn't have knights, and not too many lancers. I was fighting very strong Sarranid forces (loads of top level units), instead of pushover Nords and I had to weaken them pretty much alone. Swadians were much more helpful in my former game.
So in the end, despite similar results I do think that extra money for books and the army from the get go is worth two points into prisoner management.
The plan is to capture several Sarranid fiefs before war's end, but I have to wait for a decision, because AI will stupidly forget my former conquests. For this type of game it's really an annoying bug, if there ever was one.
bakters
Knight
Two more comments about overall strategy.
1. Prisoner management again.
So I got Durquba, where I was storing all the prisoners I couldn't sell, and Ransom Broker popped up there. I was really low on monies, less than 4K, and I could offload all of them to him.
Second approach I had in mind was that in case I won't get my fief at some point and decide to rebel, I could start recruiting those prisoners and offloading them into the garrison immediately. I could then repair my morale with just companions against bandits, or simply go after my original faction and win a big battle.
Defending your budding kingdom is a crucial turning point. Anything that helps you do that is quite important, so I don't think any more that those two points in Prisoner Management are actually wasted.
2. Releasing lords.
I couldn't make up my mind if it's worth it or not, and under which circumstances I should capture or release captured lords. Now I think it is generally worth it to release them early in the war, and capture them later on. What I found interesting was that going after a fortress where all the beaten lords try to recuperate is often surprisingly easy.
In Warband quality beats quantity most of the time, so a fortress with a small garrison of top level troops is much harder to take than a fortress with big garrison of weak troops. No matter how many defenders there are, you must kill about 250 of them for the round to finish, and it's easier to do so if they are recruits, not seasoned veterans.
Actually, that was how I managed to take Sargoth early in my last game. I went through a host of "sally out" events, which were relatively easy due to low troop quality, and I also bumped my renown quite high. Then I rested to heal my army and attacked remaining defenders in the morning. It was much easier go than Durquba in my current game, where there was less troops and no lords.
So, in the end, lords whom you release not only raise your honor and increase your relations with them, but also weaken their own faction if you never let them recuperate. Later on in the war it might be better to simply capture them, I think. Going after this last fortress where all of them hide can be a problem, if it requires siege tower and the number of defenders skyrockets between assaults.
What I really like with this type of game, is how much thinking you tend to do.
1. Prisoner management again.
So I got Durquba, where I was storing all the prisoners I couldn't sell, and Ransom Broker popped up there. I was really low on monies, less than 4K, and I could offload all of them to him.
Second approach I had in mind was that in case I won't get my fief at some point and decide to rebel, I could start recruiting those prisoners and offloading them into the garrison immediately. I could then repair my morale with just companions against bandits, or simply go after my original faction and win a big battle.
Defending your budding kingdom is a crucial turning point. Anything that helps you do that is quite important, so I don't think any more that those two points in Prisoner Management are actually wasted.
2. Releasing lords.
I couldn't make up my mind if it's worth it or not, and under which circumstances I should capture or release captured lords. Now I think it is generally worth it to release them early in the war, and capture them later on. What I found interesting was that going after a fortress where all the beaten lords try to recuperate is often surprisingly easy.
In Warband quality beats quantity most of the time, so a fortress with a small garrison of top level troops is much harder to take than a fortress with big garrison of weak troops. No matter how many defenders there are, you must kill about 250 of them for the round to finish, and it's easier to do so if they are recruits, not seasoned veterans.
Actually, that was how I managed to take Sargoth early in my last game. I went through a host of "sally out" events, which were relatively easy due to low troop quality, and I also bumped my renown quite high. Then I rested to heal my army and attacked remaining defenders in the morning. It was much easier go than Durquba in my current game, where there was less troops and no lords.
So, in the end, lords whom you release not only raise your honor and increase your relations with them, but also weaken their own faction if you never let them recuperate. Later on in the war it might be better to simply capture them, I think. Going after this last fortress where all of them hide can be a problem, if it requires siege tower and the number of defenders skyrockets between assaults.
What I really like with this type of game, is how much thinking you tend to do.
bakters
Knight
A little bit of an update. I didn't play much, but I made some progress nonetheless.
The day is 72 and I hold two cities (and a village, but who cares?). I'm still with Khergits, and it took so long to get a Constable and a decision from Sanjar Khan. That wait was so frustrating...
Anyway, I didn't waste this time. I was focused on renown farming and building a merc army. Now I need to finish off Sarranids and I can rebel against Khergits. It's not going to be absolutely easy, and I'm a bit short on cash, but I should be able to do it within several days, up to a week. I don't want any more fiefs for now, so I will just go forward without wasting time.
Durrin Castle is the only major obstacle. I still didn't found a good way of taking it. Mostly a ranged battle with some mules for extra bolts. Not the most elegant, but in the end it will fall.
I might try leaving most of my forces in Ahmerrad and attacking it with a skeleton crew to trigger "sally out" event. It might speed things up a bit, but I don't hold my breath.
The day is 72 and I hold two cities (and a village, but who cares?). I'm still with Khergits, and it took so long to get a Constable and a decision from Sanjar Khan. That wait was so frustrating...
Anyway, I didn't waste this time. I was focused on renown farming and building a merc army. Now I need to finish off Sarranids and I can rebel against Khergits. It's not going to be absolutely easy, and I'm a bit short on cash, but I should be able to do it within several days, up to a week. I don't want any more fiefs for now, so I will just go forward without wasting time.
Durrin Castle is the only major obstacle. I still didn't found a good way of taking it. Mostly a ranged battle with some mules for extra bolts. Not the most elegant, but in the end it will fall.
I might try leaving most of my forces in Ahmerrad and attacking it with a skeleton crew to trigger "sally out" event. It might speed things up a bit, but I don't hold my breath.
bakters
Knight
It's day 81 and I rebelled against Khergits.
Before that I finished Sarranids leaving one trooper for garrison in every castle I took. After they were gone I started training swadian recruits until i had about 25 knights, 35 maas and some footmen. With that force of 85 I found Sanjar Khan, rebelled and took him down.
Training was quick. Two days? Maybe three. With my maxed medical skills I could afford training in battle against bandits, and I lost only one man at arms during the whole process. Now the plan is to take back all Sarranid places and grow my army in strength through prisoners and footmen from default garrison. Then I'll most probably finish off Khergits.
I have lots of merc cavalry in case I need it, but I'll probably stick to Swadians for a while.
Oh, BTW - I didn't invest a single point in training yet. One from a book, and that's it. I could raise and train a Swadian army in (let's say) three days despite that. I could have trained a bigger army if I had money for it...
Before that I finished Sarranids leaving one trooper for garrison in every castle I took. After they were gone I started training swadian recruits until i had about 25 knights, 35 maas and some footmen. With that force of 85 I found Sanjar Khan, rebelled and took him down.
Training was quick. Two days? Maybe three. With my maxed medical skills I could afford training in battle against bandits, and I lost only one man at arms during the whole process. Now the plan is to take back all Sarranid places and grow my army in strength through prisoners and footmen from default garrison. Then I'll most probably finish off Khergits.
I have lots of merc cavalry in case I need it, but I'll probably stick to Swadians for a while.
Oh, BTW - I didn't invest a single point in training yet. One from a book, and that's it. I could raise and train a Swadian army in (let's say) three days despite that. I could have trained a bigger army if I had money for it...
bakters
Knight
The plan worked, and at day about 95ish I finished Khergits. I'm quite glad with that number. It sure enough is an improvement over my former games.
But I cheated. At one point Swadia declared on me and I simply reloaded. While technically it's not a cheat, because I never claimed to play with realistic saves, we all know it was cheating. Anyway, I knew they will declare on me anyway, just maybe a few days later, and that's what happened. I just wanted those two days extra to take all Khergit lands.
Oh, yeah. One lord is roaming somewhere still, so technically Khergits still exist, but whatever. They are no longer a threat, so I can concentrate on my new war.
But I cheated. At one point Swadia declared on me and I simply reloaded. While technically it's not a cheat, because I never claimed to play with realistic saves, we all know it was cheating. Anyway, I knew they will declare on me anyway, just maybe a few days later, and that's what happened. I just wanted those two days extra to take all Khergit lands.
Oh, yeah. One lord is roaming somewhere still, so technically Khergits still exist, but whatever. They are no longer a threat, so I can concentrate on my new war.
bakters
Knight
A quick update.
I play slowly now. No matter how great the game is, after a while it becomes less of a thrill, so I progress much slower now, one siege or several battles at a time.
Anyway, I'm at day 105 or 106 and I'm finishing up Swadia. They are at war with me and Rhodoks, while Vaegirs and Nords are at war with each other, so politically speaking the situation is perfect. Swadia is pretty much done, two castles and Praven remain, and I'm just besieging Praven, just before Rhodok army arrived.
As far as skills go, I'm as powerful as I will ever get in this game already. That's day 106, and normally I was about to start my own kingdom by this time. Now the third faction is pretty much done, so obviously the gamble with AGI 7 paid off.
I read the book on weapon mastery before leadership. I'm not sure if it was worth it, but I have croosbow proficiency above 300 and one-handed about 200 atm.
No lords joined me yet, and I didn't recruit any. It sure helps with money, because every castle brings several thousands income when I plunder it and share. I own every castle and city I took, so it may seem that I'm swimming in cash, but I simply didn't have enough time to amass it and I spend like crazy.
So, yeah, it all works. If I wasn't bored with the game a bit already, I would be thrilled.
I play slowly now. No matter how great the game is, after a while it becomes less of a thrill, so I progress much slower now, one siege or several battles at a time.
Anyway, I'm at day 105 or 106 and I'm finishing up Swadia. They are at war with me and Rhodoks, while Vaegirs and Nords are at war with each other, so politically speaking the situation is perfect. Swadia is pretty much done, two castles and Praven remain, and I'm just besieging Praven, just before Rhodok army arrived.
As far as skills go, I'm as powerful as I will ever get in this game already. That's day 106, and normally I was about to start my own kingdom by this time. Now the third faction is pretty much done, so obviously the gamble with AGI 7 paid off.
I read the book on weapon mastery before leadership. I'm not sure if it was worth it, but I have croosbow proficiency above 300 and one-handed about 200 atm.
No lords joined me yet, and I didn't recruit any. It sure helps with money, because every castle brings several thousands income when I plunder it and share. I own every castle and city I took, so it may seem that I'm swimming in cash, but I simply didn't have enough time to amass it and I spend like crazy.
So, yeah, it all works. If I wasn't bored with the game a bit already, I would be thrilled.
Interesting experiment. Totally contrary to my play style, so I probably won't be trying it myself, but I've learned a lot from reading this thread!
My strategy for Durrin is to circle the castle in the opposite way they point you toward. Of course, you'll have to have everyone following you at all times rather than letting them pick their way, but you have better cover that way. It's still tough, though!
bakters 说:
My strategy for Durrin is to circle the castle in the opposite way they point you toward. Of course, you'll have to have everyone following you at all times rather than letting them pick their way, but you have better cover that way. It's still tough, though!
bakters
Knight
I didn't try to circle it backwards yet, might give it a go some time, but it wasn't very difficult this time around. I just took out archers from long range, then climbed the ladder and shot their infantry from point blank. Somehow they didn't kill me with javelins and such, or at least not too many times.
A lot depends on exactly what troops are stationed in a castle. In my last playthrough Harringoth Castle was a nightmare, but now it was easy. Durrin used to be a problem, but it wasn't a huge deal this time around. But Rindyar Castle was, for example.
Thanks for your interest, my lady. Glad to be of service.
A lot depends on exactly what troops are stationed in a castle. In my last playthrough Harringoth Castle was a nightmare, but now it was easy. Durrin used to be a problem, but it wasn't a huge deal this time around. But Rindyar Castle was, for example.
Thanks for your interest, my lady. Glad to be of service.
