Real speed run this time. (Finished - 162 days)
- 主题发起人 bakters
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bakters
Knight
Well, if I put more points into Agility and WM now, I just wasted a month. It makes no sense. I'd rather start again.
Or stick to it and try to make it work anyway.
I'll have to see how it will play out. Companions should be fine, and maybe I can play around my own weaknesses. We'll see.
Or stick to it and try to make it work anyway.
I'll have to see how it will play out. Companions should be fine, and maybe I can play around my own weaknesses. We'll see.
It all looks like too much hassle to me, and like it outweighs the benefits of covering all those Int skills yourself. But like I said I haven't tried maxed Int skills so I can't know for sure. Ultimately you gotta have your own playstyle.
I thought you were going to do a real speed run this time.
Am I misunderstanding? Well anyway, no that would not be easy.
Am I misunderstanding? Well anyway, no that would not be easy.
deutrino
Regular
This is more of an experiment than a challenge. Please, don't change your mind bakters.Nikomakkos 说:
Two points of AGI should not make such a big difference... May be this is because you are playing without a shield? What are your weapon proficiencies now?bakters 说:
Here's an idea for your next game if you still want to play without shields - choose polearm as a melee weapon. Lance damage will raise your proficiency high enought, and you can swap it for something like a military scythe in sieges. And no wasted points for WM.
bakters
Knight
Maybe there it a misunderstanding here. I played my former quick game with additional challenges, and I ended up at day 230 when all factions were gone from the game.Nikomakkos 说:
This time I just try to be quick, nothing extra on top of it, so in this sense it it just a speed run. But I'm not recording my game with a timer like proper speedrunners do, and I do not measure total time, just in-game days.
bakters
Knight
I thought about it a bit more, and I figured out that I should definitely give it a go. Even if it fails for me, I will at least know why, so my next attempt could be better.deutrino 说:
In sieges I play without a shield for extra bolts. But it doesn't really help anyway. I hack myself out of trouble better with two-handers and I take shields mostly against missiles.deutrino 说:
MY weapon proficiencies are about 130-140 right now. IOW, they are low...
I tried it to some extent already in my previous game. All suitable polearms seem to be too slow to be really useful. I'd rather go for balanced bastard sword with speed 101 (iirc) if I'll be having a seriously hard time winning on foot. Or go with just a scimitar. That's actually a decent option to try. Speed 103, decent damage and no wasted prof points.deutrino 说:
deutrino 说:
I'd go for a Great Bardiche or a Great Long Axe myself. Love those weapons. But yeah the lance couching will raise your proficiency up really quickly, so coupled with those awesome choices for sieges it's a very good suggestion.
I use to get strenght to 9/10/12 to be able to wear "early game" armors and agility slowly up to ride heavy armored horses and charisma as well but intelligence is maybe the most important skill for me at least and I spend the points more likely to tactics,first aid,surgeon and inventory management.
bakters
Knight
Maybe I do underestimate the power of specialization? I'm not sure, though.deutrino 说:
The way I think about it, it takes quite a lot of proficiency points to overcome 10 points of "speed" (whatever that means...). But if I find a balance shortened scythe I'll give it a go. It might be worth it. I mainly use long awl pike on horseback, and I kill quite a lot with it, so my profs aren't bad at polearms.
Whatever I end up doing, low weapon mastery means that I actually have a choice, because early improvements are cheap and easy, and only grinding it up to higher profs is an irreversible decision. I will try a few options, depending on what choices the game will give me.
Anyway, I joined Swadia with all of 14 people in my army. I chose them, because they were about to lose a war with Nords, and I hoped to free some prisoners. It worked, I took only knights and man at arms, and now I have an army of 33 which is capable of fighting with most Nord lords when at full health. My companions slowly come to their own, and on a horseback I'm not half bad myself. I somehow learned how to compensate a bit and even won couple of tournaments, so while I still suck, I suck a bit less now.
Now the plan is to level up my companions till they start doing their job properly, and farm for renown and maybe honor. I'm not sure I need honor, but I guess I should go for it anyway.
Then some real army, and maybe a city. It all looks almost doable...
bakters
Knight
So I tried to test various weapons and how well I do with them. I was quite lucky in finding in shops all possible alternatives. I went into battle with all of them and tried to get the feel of how I do.
First was Balanced Hafted Blade, the shorter and faster kind. It's doable, but I simply do not like this weapon. If I had no other choices, I'd do that, but I bet I'm much better with two-handers than with a polearm like that. I gave it a serious go, decent speed (9
and no-nonsense reach made it look on paper pretty much ideal for what I need, but after I couldn't kill a Nord Archer in single combat at the walls, I just gave up.
It might be a personal skill thing, or it might have something to do with actual game mechanics. Whatever the reason, I decided to try something else.
Balanced Bastard Sword - That felt better, despite lower proficiency. It felt quick, but was it quick enough? In one lair quest I went against the looter and tried to simply block for as long as I could (companions were shooting, we had time...). And I was missing some blocks! Not because I blocked the wrong way, but because by the time he committed to an attack, it was almost too late to react. I was still slower than a damn looter with a damn falchion.
Then I went against Sargoth with an army of 50ish. There was like 500 guys inside, so I had lots of time to try out all options, and I did. Every round of "sally out" I switched for something else and tried to assess my performance.
And the winner is... Balanced Elite Scimitar.
My one-handed proficiency was the lowest, yet I felt the most powerful with this weapon in hand. I used it without a shield, because that's how I'm going to go for sieges. And it looks damn pretty too...
Oh, I got Chalbedk Castle and Sargoth. If Harlaus won't give me Sargoth, I rebel. The day is 55, atm.
First was Balanced Hafted Blade, the shorter and faster kind. It's doable, but I simply do not like this weapon. If I had no other choices, I'd do that, but I bet I'm much better with two-handers than with a polearm like that. I gave it a serious go, decent speed (9
and no-nonsense reach made it look on paper pretty much ideal for what I need, but after I couldn't kill a Nord Archer in single combat at the walls, I just gave up.It might be a personal skill thing, or it might have something to do with actual game mechanics. Whatever the reason, I decided to try something else.
Balanced Bastard Sword - That felt better, despite lower proficiency. It felt quick, but was it quick enough? In one lair quest I went against the looter and tried to simply block for as long as I could (companions were shooting, we had time...
). And I was missing some blocks! Not because I blocked the wrong way, but because by the time he committed to an attack, it was almost too late to react. I was still slower than a damn looter with a damn falchion.Then I went against Sargoth with an army of 50ish. There was like 500 guys inside, so I had lots of time to try out all options, and I did. Every round of "sally out" I switched for something else and tried to assess my performance.
And the winner is... Balanced Elite Scimitar.
My one-handed proficiency was the lowest, yet I felt the most powerful with this weapon in hand. I used it without a shield, because that's how I'm going to go for sieges. And it looks damn pretty too...
Oh, I got Chalbedk Castle and Sargoth. If Harlaus won't give me Sargoth, I rebel. The day is 55, atm.
deutrino
Regular
With 160-200 WP I can use morningstar one-handed with no problems, despite it's low speed. (After 170 points, the speed of the weapon doesn't matter anymore for the player.) But at that time I also have 4 powerstrike, 4 weapon mastery and 3-4 atletics.I think this is the problem - dueling with slow weapons requires better maneuvering and footwork, but you are too slow becouse you have no points in atletics.
So no cool skull-crushers for you.
Please, everybody let's not discuss weapons anymore.
I am more interested in your income strategy. Do you invest in commercial enterprises? How do you make most of your money with no prison management?
So no cool skull-crushers for you.
Please, everybody let's not discuss weapons anymore.
I am more interested in your income strategy. Do you invest in commercial enterprises? How do you make most of your money with no prison management?
bakters
Knight
Personally, I'm not totally against some weapon suggestions. There might be something I'm missing, which will allow me to perform better on foot. Now I would just suggest sticking to one-handed suggestions, because I decided to go with it and I even sold all the extras.
What is fast and powerful on foot with no shield? Military pick? Heavy Sabre? IDK...
(BTW - I don't think that long arming sword is any better than Elite Scimitar. It's even slower than bastard sword, and deals insignificantly more damage than the scimitar. I might give it a go, though. One of my companions carries a balanced one, so I can try it out.)
Regarding economy (we don't need to choose, we can discuss both), I made most of my money with looting, then tournaments and quest rewards. When you solo a group of raiders you collect up to 700 dinars immediately after battle, then you have some loot on top of that, which will usually net you a bit above a grand total. If I captured prisoners, I'd have twice more, but a the cost of two skill points, slower map speed and the necessity of finding a ransom broker. I decided to try my luck without it...
The problem was, that after I took companions the after battle cash dried and I didn't have as much loot to sell. But bandit parties gotten a bit bigger, so while not swimming in cash, I could still make a living.
I invested in an enterprise in Rivacheg, which brings about a grand every week. Then I was moving between bandit locations, killing off bigger parties and doing lair quest, plus I was at least trying out all the tournaments I found. Some were hopeless, but I won quite a few.
The drawbacks:
1. I'm illiterate. I was mostly broke, so whenever I found a book merchant, I couldn't afford his wares. That resulted in wasted skill points, because I maxed medical skills instead of waiting for a book.
That alone makes this approach a failure.
2. My companions have worse kit than usual.
3. I didn't have an army when I joined a faction.
4. I will never be able to support myself with bandit hunting, which I always could do.
But I'm not sure that my failure proves the whole strategy a failure. I believe that if I tried it again and actually though it all out, I could make it work by simply toting around enough cash for the two medical books. And I will be faster. Technically I could disband prisoners, but we all know it's not going to happen. Now I have no choice, but stay slim, so to speak.
Later strategy predicted taking a city early, and eventually owning pretty much all cities and castles in Calradia. I don't really plan on using lords, just letting them come, so I don't have to fight them over and over again. With 0 right to rule I doubt I could recruit many anyway, even if I tried. I will simply keep the ones that come to me, and my prisons will probably be quite full too.
What is fast and powerful on foot with no shield? Military pick? Heavy Sabre? IDK...
(BTW - I don't think that long arming sword is any better than Elite Scimitar. It's even slower than bastard sword, and deals insignificantly more damage than the scimitar. I might give it a go, though. One of my companions carries a balanced one, so I can try it out.)
Regarding economy (we don't need to choose, we can discuss both
), I made most of my money with looting, then tournaments and quest rewards. When you solo a group of raiders you collect up to 700 dinars immediately after battle, then you have some loot on top of that, which will usually net you a bit above a grand total. If I captured prisoners, I'd have twice more, but a the cost of two skill points, slower map speed and the necessity of finding a ransom broker. I decided to try my luck without it...The problem was, that after I took companions the after battle cash dried and I didn't have as much loot to sell. But bandit parties gotten a bit bigger, so while not swimming in cash, I could still make a living.
I invested in an enterprise in Rivacheg, which brings about a grand every week. Then I was moving between bandit locations, killing off bigger parties and doing lair quest, plus I was at least trying out all the tournaments I found. Some were hopeless, but I won quite a few.
The drawbacks:
1. I'm illiterate. I was mostly broke, so whenever I found a book merchant, I couldn't afford his wares. That resulted in wasted skill points, because I maxed medical skills instead of waiting for a book.
That alone makes this approach a failure.
2. My companions have worse kit than usual.
3. I didn't have an army when I joined a faction.
4. I will never be able to support myself with bandit hunting, which I always could do.
But I'm not sure that my failure proves the whole strategy a failure. I believe that if I tried it again and actually though it all out, I could make it work by simply toting around enough cash for the two medical books. And I will be faster. Technically I could disband prisoners, but we all know it's not going to happen. Now I have no choice, but stay slim, so to speak.
Later strategy predicted taking a city early, and eventually owning pretty much all cities and castles in Calradia. I don't really plan on using lords, just letting them come, so I don't have to fight them over and over again. With 0 right to rule I doubt I could recruit many anyway, even if I tried. I will simply keep the ones that come to me, and my prisons will probably be quite full too.
My general strategy goes like this:
Get all attributes up to 12 at level 15. This leaves me able to use most equipment and be effective with it, and then choose something to specialize in from that point.
I often go for Intelligence at that point, to increase the quality of my party. Then I later increase my charisma to 15 or 18, and increase my leadership. After that, I really have the minimum which I need to make it through the game, increasing attributes based on whether I want to fight better or have a stronger army.
Honestly, in the long run, it's always better to go for charisma and intelligence. Charisma allows you to have a larger number of troops.
Intelligence allows you to get more out of a given party.
The reason for these is that your troops can do more damage and take more than you ever could by yourself, and if you plan to take over Calradia, you need them numerous and strong.
So you need to find a balance between gaining EXP via increasing your personal skills, and making your men stronger by increasing party skills.
Trainer is absolutely necessary. Leadership is always at the highest you can get it, as is powerstrike.
Get all attributes up to 12 at level 15. This leaves me able to use most equipment and be effective with it, and then choose something to specialize in from that point.
I often go for Intelligence at that point, to increase the quality of my party. Then I later increase my charisma to 15 or 18, and increase my leadership. After that, I really have the minimum which I need to make it through the game, increasing attributes based on whether I want to fight better or have a stronger army.
Honestly, in the long run, it's always better to go for charisma and intelligence. Charisma allows you to have a larger number of troops.
Intelligence allows you to get more out of a given party.
The reason for these is that your troops can do more damage and take more than you ever could by yourself, and if you plan to take over Calradia, you need them numerous and strong.
So you need to find a balance between gaining EXP via increasing your personal skills, and making your men stronger by increasing party skills.
Trainer is absolutely necessary. Leadership is always at the highest you can get it, as is powerstrike.
bakters
Knight
With all due respect, I don't think you are up to date with what I'm doing, and why I'm doing it. You give good advises, for someone who is new to the game and wants a no-nonsense, effective strategy which will allow him to win on hardest settings.
But, without false modesty, I'm not one of those people. I'm trying to win before day 200, and at the same time I'm trying out quite extreme approaches. Sure, I make mistakes, and sure I need help, so your input is genuinely appreciated. Just have a look at this thread and maybe "Thoughts about quick game." one too, if you feel bored with life and need to kill some time desperately.
Anyway, I received Sargoth too, so I have three fiefs now at day roughly about 60. I am quite ready to rebel against Swadia, because they fight a war on three fronts. The question is, should I do it for real? I'm quite convinced Haralus will refuse me my next conquest, so I need to think hard about what should it be.
ATM I own Tadamesh, Chalbeck Castle and Sargoth. If I go for Tellrog Castle I should be able to take it quickly, but then I need to wait a long time for the decision. I could go for Wercheg, but it's farther away, impossible to defend and both Nords and Vaegirs claim it as their lost territory. I definitely don't like this idea.
And economically and militarily I'm definitely not ready for rebellion yet. I have 6 grand to my soul, and that's it for now. All decent troops I have are Swadians, and I have no way of changing that for now.
Digging in in Sargoth is a safe choice, but I can't play safely if I want to be fast. I'll probably take a nearby Castle (Tellrog, Hrus or Currin), request it, not reinforce it at all, and go from there. At the very worst I'll have a trap set close by.
But, without false modesty, I'm not one of those people. I'm trying to win before day 200, and at the same time I'm trying out quite extreme approaches. Sure, I make mistakes, and sure I need help, so your input is genuinely appreciated. Just have a look at this thread and maybe "Thoughts about quick game." one too, if you feel bored with life and need to kill some time desperately.
Anyway, I received Sargoth too, so I have three fiefs now at day roughly about 60. I am quite ready to rebel against Swadia, because they fight a war on three fronts. The question is, should I do it for real? I'm quite convinced Haralus will refuse me my next conquest, so I need to think hard about what should it be.
ATM I own Tadamesh, Chalbeck Castle and Sargoth. If I go for Tellrog Castle I should be able to take it quickly, but then I need to wait a long time for the decision. I could go for Wercheg, but it's farther away, impossible to defend and both Nords and Vaegirs claim it as their lost territory. I definitely don't like this idea.
And economically and militarily I'm definitely not ready for rebellion yet. I have 6 grand to my soul, and that's it for now. All decent troops I have are Swadians, and I have no way of changing that for now.
Digging in in Sargoth is a safe choice, but I can't play safely if I want to be fast. I'll probably take a nearby Castle (Tellrog, Hrus or Currin), request it, not reinforce it at all, and go from there. At the very worst I'll have a trap set close by.
bakters
Knight
I started all over again, I'm afraid.
I know, it looks like quitting, but the fact is, that my former try was an experiment. Some things worked, some did not, and I believe we all learned something from them.
What didn't work? Prisoner management. I simply didn't have enough money for all my early needs. I could have saved maybe 15 thou or thereabouts, but at the cost of even worse equipment and no enterprise in Rivacheg. The enterprise may not be worth it, I don't know, but I was already quite skimpy with equipment. I bought horses, some weapons, few sheilds, few helmets and gloves. That's it.
What worked, despite all my reservations? AGI 7 and WM 2. I can live with it. It frees so many skill points, that it's definitely worth it for me.
So I started with a female nomad/apprentice/lady in waiting/forced out build, and damn but this Spirited Courser is a powerhouse early on. But after I started with it, I'm kind of glad that I made the mistake before. A female starts with much lower weapon profs, which pretty much means that I will be totally useless in tournaments probably forever. With this build you are kinda forced to specialize.
The thing is, that if I didn't mistakenly start with a guy before, I could have decided that the whole build is useless. No money from prisoners, no money from tournaments, overall combat suckiness and all. It would definitely look much worse than what it really is.
In summary, I consider my former experiment to be a success, because I learned quite a lot. That's why you do experiments, after all.
I know, it looks like quitting, but the fact is, that my former try was an experiment. Some things worked, some did not, and I believe we all learned something from them.
What didn't work? Prisoner management. I simply didn't have enough money for all my early needs. I could have saved maybe 15 thou or thereabouts, but at the cost of even worse equipment and no enterprise in Rivacheg. The enterprise may not be worth it, I don't know, but I was already quite skimpy with equipment. I bought horses, some weapons, few sheilds, few helmets and gloves. That's it.
What worked, despite all my reservations? AGI 7 and WM 2. I can live with it. It frees so many skill points, that it's definitely worth it for me.
So I started with a female nomad/apprentice/lady in waiting/forced out build, and damn but this Spirited Courser is a powerhouse early on. But after I started with it, I'm kind of glad that I made the mistake before. A female starts with much lower weapon profs, which pretty much means that I will be totally useless in tournaments probably forever. With this build you are kinda forced to specialize.
The thing is, that if I didn't mistakenly start with a guy before, I could have decided that the whole build is useless. No money from prisoners, no money from tournaments, overall combat suckiness and all. It would definitely look much worse than what it really is.
In summary, I consider my former experiment to be a success, because I learned quite a lot. That's why you do experiments, after all.
I would like to see you try to win Prophesy of Pendor as quickly as you can. That would be interesting to follow .
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