Real Battle

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Maywez

Recruit
Summary: Hello dear support, I just want to apologize for the bad English, I translate with a Yandex translator. The other day I saw a modification that really conveys the specifics of fighting from reality to the virtual world of the game, realistic armor protection is what is really missing in the game, because it is very stupid if a gang of looters can easily throw stones or beat heavily armored warriors with sticks, in fact, the stones simply have to scratch the armor a little(can of course easily hit a warrior) - but this is the maximum. What is the essence of my appeal, what would I like to see in the upcoming updates: 1. Realistic armor system 2. Realistic damage system(the sword cuts/stabs well, but does not penetrate heavy armor well, the axe cuts and penetrates armor perfectly, well, the mace perfectly penetrates armor, for which it is a huge plus - of course it all needs to be balanced, I understand it is difficult, but it is necessary to increase the realism of battles in the game.) Thank bro:smile:
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Sad noone from TW has responded but I'll try - Historically heavy blunt missles (sling stone / staff sling stone) could penetrate armour, let along damage the armour. You should see the size of the bruise !

Yes realism is essential. ... but Looters aren't really anywhere near that - game play priority.
 

five bucks

Squire
Sad noone from TW has responded but I'll try - Historically heavy blunt missles (sling stone / staff sling stone) could penetrate armour, let along damage the armour.
Bannerlord Looters throw stones by hand, not by sling.

Historically, underneath armor, padded gambesons/aketons were worn to help protect against blunt trauma, similar to the pads cricketers wear to protect themselves from cricket balls (which are as hard as a rock). Here you can see a cricket ball from a professional bowler at high speed, bouncing right off a leg pad. Thrown stones could potentially injure through mail and thick padding, sure, but it would take a lot of them to kill.

If it was that easy to kill a guy in armor by picking rocks up off the ground, people wouldn't have bothered to spend years' worth of wages on armor.

Also even if you don't agree on the realism front, it's still not good game design for armor to be so vulnerable to the weakest ranged weapon in the game thrown by the weakest unit in the game.
 
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I cannot argue with most of that . .except to say, priority 1 = game play, priority 437 = realism. We'll have to wait for a realism Mod once the game is officially released.
 

black_bulldog

Knight at Arms
WBWF&SVC
Op it's been argued many many times that the damage and armor systems in this game need to be adjusted, so far TW has done very little because they're concerned about balance between single player and multiplayer. Many people on these forums have argued that it's kind of stupid to try to balance that way, but TW hasn't changed their minds.
 

five bucks

Squire
Op it's been argued many many times that the damage and armor systems in this game need to be adjusted, so far TW has done very little because they're concerned about balance between single player and multiplayer. Many people on these forums have argued that it's kind of stupid to try to balance that way, but TW hasn't changed their minds.
Based on this post from Duh in April, that may or may not be true but I'm leaning towards no.
Will take time to reply to you and others in more detail, but just to pick this one out for a quick answer - not to my knowledge. We are also discussing armor and how to improve it.
 

eddiemccandless

Knight at Arms
WBNWVC
It's also not like this is particularly difficult to implement at least at a basic level. That they haven't done it yet is a good indication that they won't.
 
Historically heavy blunt missles (sling stone / staff sling stone) could penetrate armour, let along damage the armour. You should see the size of the bruise !
Man looters should be getting winded from running across the map and barely able to impotently throw a stone 1/5 the size of what they're chucking at us. They're the lowest of the low, unskilled, unwanted, miserable failures of men.

But what we've got is these guys using as you describe professional military level blunt missles with the range and accuracy of a professional baseball man.
By contrast just enter a tournament and see how sloppily units and lords handle throwing javs in the jav x jav duel that are common now. There's something dum in both how the looters are armed and how they throw, it's just not 'looter' level.

But to address OP, @Maywez yeah Armor and damage calculations need a lot of revision for sure and we're all looking forward to it! I don't know that just copying RBM (I assume that's the mod you used) is good enough, but certainly something needs to be done.
 

Poddicus

Knight
M&BWBWF&SNWVC
We're gonna get to the point where we can't fight in the Aserai areas or if the in-game temperature is too warm because our character will get too sweaty and exhausted to fight effectively
 
Summary: Hello dear support, I just want to apologize for the bad English, I translate with a Yandex translator. The other day I saw a modification that really conveys the specifics of fighting from reality to the virtual world of the game, realistic armor protection is what is really missing in the game, because it is very stupid if a gang of looters can easily throw stones or beat heavily armored warriors with sticks, in fact, the stones simply have to scratch the armor a little(can of course easily hit a warrior) - but this is the maximum. What is the essence of my appeal, what would I like to see in the upcoming updates: 1. Realistic armor system 2. Realistic damage system(the sword cuts/stabs well, but does not penetrate heavy armor well, the axe cuts and penetrates armor perfectly, well, the mace perfectly penetrates armor, for which it is a huge plus - of course it all needs to be balanced, I understand it is difficult, but it is necessary to increase the realism of battles in the game.) Thank bro:smile:
How to Reproduce:-
Have you used cheats and if so which:-
Scene Name (if related):
Media (Screenshots & Video):
Computer Specs:
OS:
GPU:
GPU Driver Version:
CPU:
RAM:
Motherboard:
Storage Device (HDD/SSD):
you want this right?
JOINT HURTBOXES and ARMOR HURTBOXES: an armor system that provide a way to balance factions warfare and make more deep the combat system(suggestions)
 
Bannerlord Looters throw stones by hand, not by sling.

Historically, underneath armor, padded gambesons/aketons were worn to help protect against blunt trauma, similar to the pads cricketers wear to protect themselves from cricket balls (which are as hard as a rock). Here you can see a cricket ball from a professional bowler at high speed, bouncing right off a leg pad. Thrown stones could potentially injure through mail and thick padding, sure, but it would take a lot of them to kill.

If it was that easy to kill a guy in armor by picking rocks up off the ground, people wouldn't have bothered to spend years' worth of wages on armor.

Also even if you don't agree on the realism front, it's still not good game design for armor to be so vulnerable to the weakest ranged weapon in the game thrown by the weakest unit in the game.
It's also not like this is particularly difficult to implement at least at a basic level. That they haven't done it yet is a good indication that they won't.
I cannot argue with most of that . .except to say, priority 1 = game play, priority 437 = realism. We'll have to wait for a realism Mod once the game is officially released.
JOINT HURTBOXES and ARMOR HURTBOXES: an armor system that provide a way to balance factions warfare and make more deep the combat system(suggestions)
What do you think of the thread I linked?
the goal of the thread is:
-solve all the problems related to the armor in relation to their inefficiency, realism and gameplay.
-allow the construction of a variety of units ranging from those with many weaknesses to those with few weaknesses.
Therefore there are no invulnerable units or "homogeneously protected at most such as to make them super-defended in every point of the body".
-It also solves problems with archers and ranged weapons.
Read before commenting.
 

Antaeus

Sergeant
If I was one of 10 or 20 looters facing a mounted armoured warrior, I'd designate the one or two quickest junior looters to run distraction with a couple of pitchforks or rocks while the rest of the group disembowel the horse or physically manhandle the mounted warrior to the ground, pin them down and kick/stomp them to death while they're pinned.

But because looters aren't real people with any planning capability, this mechanic doesn't exist in game. So I'm ok with settling for there being weird damage calculations from their makeshift weapons.

I feel like the knowledge that those 20 looters can by off chance mob me and take me down if I get too overconfident and find myself isolated, no matter how well armoured I am, is an important mechanic in the game that I wouldn't want to lose.
 
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five bucks

Squire
If I was one of 10 or 20 looters facing a mounted armoured warrior, I'd designate the one or two quickest junior looters to run distraction with a couple of pitchforks or rocks while the rest of the group disembowel the horse or physically manhandle the mounted warrior to the ground, pin them down and kick/stomp them to death while they're pinned.

But because looters aren't real people with any planning capability, this mechanic doesn't exist in game. So I'm ok with settling for there being weird damage calculations from their makeshift weapons.
I don't really think that scrap-fed looters with fetal alcohol syndrome would have the brain development to come up on the spot with the plan you just came up with from the comfort of your chair at home, or that it would even necessarily succeed. It relies on the mounted armored warrior being more stupid than the looters. And looter pitchforks are very short, they aren't exactly a long pike designed to stand up to a cavalry charge.

But that aside, basically you're saying because you think the game is unrealistic in one way, it should also be unrealistic in another way to try and make it realistic again. And obviously that makes no sense. You just end up with a game that's unrealistic in TWO ways instead of one.

I'd rather just have armor work the way it would in real life, and suffer the slight potential unrealism of looters not being effective tacticians.

Most people would probably agree with me, considering the millions of threads that have been made on this topic.
I feel like the knowledge that those 20 looters can by off chance mob me and take me down if I get too overconfident and find myself isolated, no matter how well armoured I am, is an important mechanic in the game that I wouldn't want to lose.
No, what's important is rewarding the player for their hard work in getting higher tier troops or extraordinarily expensive armor, by allowing them to get much better results.

Looters being challenging "no matter how well armored you are" is not "an important mechanic" because the well armored player can be provided challenge in other ways.

If you want a challenge in the early game, you fight looters.
If you want a challenge in the late game, you fight enemies of comparable tier to yourself.
If you want a power fantasy curbstomp in the lategame, you fight looters.

Having armor be weak so looters are a challenge in the lategame just ****s up the progression curve unnecessarily. Because it means that higher-tier enemies are not the threat to the player that they should be. You can even pretty easily oneshot or twoshot enemy nobles and noble troops like cataphracts, who are supposed to be the Big Bad Scary Mother****ers of the game.
 

Apocal

Grandmaster Knight
You can even pretty easily oneshot or twoshot enemy nobles and noble troops like cataphracts, who are supposed to be the Big Bad Scary Mother****ers of the game.
I don't believe any M&B title has enemies that can't be oneshot with mid-game weapons and skills so I'm not sure why you're acting like this is out of place.
 

five bucks

Squire
Let's just save a few trees and agree to disagree? I'm OK with that. Are you?
That suits me fine.
I don't believe any M&B title has enemies that can't be oneshot with mid-game weapons and skills so I'm not sure why you're acting like this is out of place.
Is this a necessary comment? We've had that discussion before and I thought we came to a conclusion. I think my stance then was:

* Warband's progression and economy model clearly weren't perfectly balanced.
* Prior titles being imperfect doesn't justify Bannerlord's damage model being imperfect too.
* Although there were instances of being easily able to kill high level enemies in that game, the problem is more prevalent in more ways in Bannerlord.

I never said it was "out of place" in the context of the series as a whole, so I'm not sure why you're portraying me that way. I am saying that in the context of this game alone, and reality, high tier/noble troops are clearly intended to be a force to be reckoned with, but are easily killed, and it doesn't take a genius to see that's unintended behaviour that flies in the face of player expectations.
 

eddiemccandless

Knight at Arms
WBNWVC
JOINT HURTBOXES and ARMOR HURTBOXES: an armor system that provide a way to balance factions warfare and make more deep the combat system(suggestions)
What do you think of the thread I linked?
the goal of the thread is:
-solve all the problems related to the armor in relation to their inefficiency, realism and gameplay.
-allow the construction of a variety of units ranging from those with many weaknesses to those with few weaknesses.
Therefore there are no invulnerable units or "homogeneously protected at most such as to make them super-defended in every point of the body".
-It also solves problems with archers and ranged weapons.
Read before commenting.
I think that you are spamming that thread a little too much.





We get it, you are passionate about your suggestion, but this is a little much.
 

Apocal

Grandmaster Knight
Is this a necessary comment?
It is as necessary as any comment made on this forum.
I never said it was "out of place" in the context of the series as a whole, so I'm not sure why you're portraying me that way. I am saying that in the context of this game alone, and reality, high tier/noble troops are clearly intended to be a force to be reckoned with, but are easily killed, and it doesn't take a genius to see that's unintended behaviour that flies in the face of player expectations.
Because M&B doesn't have big bad scary enemies. It just has basic troops and lords, who aren't generally much better at fighting than their troops, frequently quite a bit less. That's the player expectation: that they're going to basically be able to kill anyone on the field with mid-game gear and not too much challenge.

Sure, improve armor and a lot of the stupid deaths of high-tier troops are going to go away. But once they fix cavalry, I fully expect anyone with a couchable lance to go right through that armor like a hot knife through butter, both from a realism standpoint and from the standpoint of prior games.

I think that you are spamming that thread a little too much.
...
We get it, you are passionate about your suggestion, but this is a little much.
He's been doing it for over a year, just ignore him.
 

Callum

Community Lead
Summary: Hello dear support, I just want to apologize for the bad English, I translate with a Yandex translator. The other day I saw a modification that really conveys the specifics of fighting from reality to the virtual world of the game, realistic armor protection is what is really missing in the game, because it is very stupid if a gang of looters can easily throw stones or beat heavily armored warriors with sticks, in fact, the stones simply have to scratch the armor a little(can of course easily hit a warrior) - but this is the maximum. What is the essence of my appeal, what would I like to see in the upcoming updates: 1. Realistic armor system 2. Realistic damage system(the sword cuts/stabs well, but does not penetrate heavy armor well, the axe cuts and penetrates armor perfectly, well, the mace perfectly penetrates armor, for which it is a huge plus - of course it all needs to be balanced, I understand it is difficult, but it is necessary to increase the realism of battles in the game.) Thank bro:smile:
How to Reproduce:-
Have you used cheats and if so which:-
Scene Name (if related):
Media (Screenshots & Video):
Computer Specs:
OS:
GPU:
GPU Driver Version:
CPU:
RAM:
Motherboard:
Storage Device (HDD/SSD):

Hey, thanks for sharing your feedback!

Realism and gameplay are quite often at odds when it comes to games (we play games to distract us from real life after all!). This is something we take into consideration when designing different features, and we always go in favour of what we think will make for a more fun and enjoyable game.

However, your concerns about armour have been raised previously by other players and that is something we will continue to report to the developers. And even if that doesn't amount to the changes that you and some others would like to see, at least you already have access to an awesome mod that provides you with the gameplay experience that you want! :smile:
 
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