RaW 2.55 open testing and work in progress versions.

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Question: Are you planning on making every Greek city states more fleshed out with their own type of troops and etc or is it just going to be Thebes and Sparta?
 
A helot revolt would suck in the middle of the Greek war with Macedon.  :smile:

Yes, I'm sure I could put them off to the side some place, it's only a matter of having to worry about manually retracting them if they're targeted by the enemy in melee that I worry about. Alas, beggars can't be choosers; I wonder if Bannerlord II would add a native 'Skirmish' function. That'd be nice.
 
Childe_Rolande said:
A helot revolt would suck in the middle of the Greek war with Macedon.  :smile:

Yes, I'm sure I could put them off to the side some place, it's only a matter of having to worry about manually retracting them if they're targeted by the enemy in melee that I worry about. Alas, beggars can't be choosers; I wonder if Bannerlord II would add a native 'Skirmish' function. That'd be nice.

Macedonian skirmish tactics pls
 
Theres some hand clipping issues with the samnite scutums, mostly the big one.

Also question: is there a reason for most spears to not show on your back? Ive noticed theres versions that do in the item pool.
 
tigab95 said:
Childe_Rolande said:
A helot revolt would suck in the middle of the Greek war with Macedon.  :smile:

Yes, I'm sure I could put them off to the side some place, it's only a matter of having to worry about manually retracting them if they're targeted by the enemy in melee that I worry about. Alas, beggars can't be choosers; I wonder if Bannerlord II would add a native 'Skirmish' function. That'd be nice.

Macedonian skirmish tactics pls

Sorry, I'm not well-versed in Macedonian-isms.  What does this entail?  :smile:  (If not just manually moving them away at some point in the battle).
 
Childe_Rolande said:
tigab95 said:
Childe_Rolande said:
A helot revolt would suck in the middle of the Greek war with Macedon.  :smile:

Yes, I'm sure I could put them off to the side some place, it's only a matter of having to worry about manually retracting them if they're targeted by the enemy in melee that I worry about. Alas, beggars can't be choosers; I wonder if Bannerlord II would add a native 'Skirmish' function. That'd be nice.

Macedonian skirmish tactics pls

Sorry, I'm not well-versed in Macedonian-isms.  What does this entail?  :smile:  (If not just manually moving them away at some point in the battle).
Oh I was mostly thinking about when Alexander moved his cavalry with skirmishers hiding behind it (With bows,javelins and slings) as a lure to draw the persian cavalry away and when they got far enough from the fighth surprise the persians are getting shot from everywhere haha
 
Great job on the new modells!

Especially the mail for the Keltoi are very detailed, I haven't seen any comparable yet.
I'm really looking forward to the official release!
 
Hi Seek n Destroy, I've been trying out your open test version and I'm completely impressed by it. Even now it looks more complete than many other mods out there, my congratulations.

In order to help you, I would like to point out a few issues that I've found, which I believe they haven't been mentioned before. In addition, I would also like to name some of the things that I liked the most; I believe that should also be important to mention: not only bugs to fix, but also features that were awesomely done. I'm sorry if this post is too long; I can make it shorter if needed, this is a very detailed feedback.

Isues found:
-Messanna: I believe you said that you remodeled quite some aspects of the maps, and a few issues appeared already. Messanna might just be another one in the list: The walls are floating in the air and the ground is about 20 meters below, so you can freely walk in. In order to access such high walls, you can still go to the corners of the fortification, which they are touhcing the ground.

-This is a VERY minor issue, but I wanted to mention it just in case. When trying to speak to random citizens, some of them still refer to places in the normal game, but I feel like changing the lines for the citizens would be way too much work.

-I do not know which year is chosen for this setting or if it's just a merge of the golden era for each faction, but in any case I believe the romans are underrepresented, not in territory (at some point in the early years they had that same territory) but in "culture": While the name of the units is correct (technically "Roman" is more accurate and elegant than "Romanus"), the roman items are heavily turned into Greek-ish items, or just undervalued. Let me put some examples:
  • Roman infantry scutums were supossed to be more rectangular with two variants: the completely rectangular scutum, and the semi-oval rectangular scutum (both can be seen in the images of the wikipedia article for scutums, en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Scutum_(shield))
  • If the romans "triumphed" during their time, it was partially owed to their unquestionable superior equipment (and discipline, and only fighting in even terrain so their equipment and discipline could shine). However, both the roman scutum and all gladius are way worse than their Greek counterparts. Greece was really cool, but this feels quite innacurate.
  • On the same line, the romans had the best heavy infantry of the whole era, one of the reasons they wanted an even, not swampy terrain to fight. However, the top-tier Greek units can shred through the top tier Roman units on a frontal clash (yes, a phalanx should beat a normal centuria, but neither of them were using such formations, just a mob against a mob). On the other hand, the Romans had a worrying lack of good cavalry (due to bad riders and bad breeds of horses), to the point that they used gallic mercenary cavalry to complement their armies (their own cavalry was so bad that a whole cohort (~5k men) would only have like 127 riders). In this regard, roman cavalry could safely be nerfed.
  • This last item is purely related to the textures and that Greek influence in the roman stuff: It is impossible to find a real roman scutum (not only the shape but the texture, I imagine they are not implemented) and a proper loricata (that typical roman plate armor that is made out of metal stripes to give mobility), yet that name is part of the improved Hastati and Princeps' names. To sum up this point and the scutum point: Roman stuff looks like greek stuff but worse, even I'm using greek stuff just to keep the numbers high.

I hope that wasn't too much, I am a deep nerd of roman stuff and this mod has the potential to be the best roman mod for M&B paired with Bellum Imperii, but the latter is way too slow and already set in an advanced state of the roman era. If I can be of any help, I would be happy to lend a hand.

Now I would like to mention the things that I think they are brilliant!

-At last! cavalry change now makes sense: It deals enough damage to wound just with the charge, especially against skirmishers, so the whole "protect your ranged units from enemy cavalry" makes complete sense here, you can easily wipe out enemy skirmishers using your cavalry strategically, and deal serious damage when outflanking norma infantry. Seriously, this is awesome.

-Great balance for all kind of throwing javelins: Pila were the shield-wreckers but quite fragile, and you can see both things here! Peltasts's javelins are also quite accurate: Shorter, less damage, but it allows to carry more.

-The enlist system works pretty well and it is very accurate: you even mention, as the top ranking, the famous Primus Pilus for the romans! I am so impressed, that I would even miss the same system for vassal titles: in case of the romans, and even though these are more political than militar offices/rankings, one could start as a normal general, then Quaestor, Aedil, Praetor, Tribune (also Militar Tribune and Tribune of the Plebs) and of course Consul! I get that this might be harder to do, although even a simple title added to your name and a gradually larger army size would do.

-Great siege set-ups! Even though they are already posted, it is awesome to see the siege towers, siege ramps and good robust ladders.

-Again I can only speak for the romans, but the equipment for each of their units is so accurate that it's one of the reasons I find so sad to see the roman equipment so Greek. Hastati were the young, more inexperienced ones, and here they are, just like that, with the same equipment they should have. Princeps, more experienced ones, same equipment although better quality. Triarii, the most veteran ones during the manipular formation era, equipped with the typical triarii spear and a gladius, amazing! If I had to critisize something here, is that these three unit types merged into the same roman unit, the legionaire, once they switched from manipular formations to cohort formations, thus appearing the centurion, so coexistence of Hastati-Princeps-Triarii and centurions did not really happen, but this is already way too much.

-Have you done something with the enemy AI behaviour during battles? Because they do know what they are doing, not only keeping the infantry as a solid block, but also the cavalry going behind my armies to directly attack my skirmishers, which I usually place behind the infantry lines. This also amazed me, really well done!

-Similarly, formations here work like a charm, very nicely done! The only thing I would have to say (I don't now if it is intended or not) is that they forget their formation once they charge: If you tell them to regroup, they go back to the standard one line.

-The greek armies really look like that, they are impressive and I can't wait to start another campaign as one of them, once I'm done with the romans!

-Last but not least, on the contrary, all generals here look very active, that is amazing! as a roman mod, personally, I prefer this mod over Bellum Imperii because the map has more density and the generals are like 5x more active, I'm not exaggerating a single bit. Maybe these two are related, but here there is always something happening, and that's just perfect.

Finally, I would also like to ask if you are going to add more civilizations: the map has room to add Carthage and other african tribes, gauls, germans, and plenty of room for eastern civilizations! (sadly, not for hispanic tribes). Even if the answer is no, I would like to repeat that the current state of the mod is way better than most mods out there, even for romans!

Once again amazing work, and if I can be of any help, I'd be glad to lend a hand!
 
SirKriegor said:
(technically "Roman" is more accurate and elegant than "Romanus")

Good point! I completely agree.  Whoever did such an inelegant and inaccurate mistake, truly he deserves to be kicked in the nuts!
 
Hahahah well I must apologize if it sounded that bad, Romanus/i is correct in latin, but we are supossed to be using english. Roma and Romani have an english translation, but not Hastati, Princeps and Triarii, so it depends if the developer wants to stick to english or to use latin terminology; in any case my apologies if I didn't use the correct forms!
 
Yep, it looks like the main developer of this mod has an embarassing fetishism regarding historically correct units name not only in Latin, but also in Greek and Celtic and even in other dead language. Hmmmpf. I like all the historical accuracy and stuff, but man! Patience has a limit too. It seems that he spends too much time even in searching all the correct places for the map that are almost unreadable.

Not to talk about his personal bad taste. Why do we HAVE to see two floppy wieners slaining a lion on the main menu scene? It's simply disgusting.  :facepalm:     
 
SirKriegor said:
Hahahah well isn't that a deer? Anyway I agree, it's very... revealing  :lol:

Ah, it's a deer? I didn't notice. Maybe because there are too many wieners in a main menu screen disturbing me.  :mad:

Maybe adding Carthage and Elephants and plenty of Corinthians helmets could stop me complaining.
 
Hello and thanks for all the feedback SirKriegor :smile: I'm not Seek, but I can answer a few points:

- We aren't supposed to be using English, so deal with it :twisted:

-"It is the year 300 B.C." from Information and Downloads, which determines the equipment we'll have :ohdear: and to quote the FAQ: "Q: Will you add Imperial Rome. A: No, stop asking"

- Balance is an ongoing experiment, what with reality rarely matching the stats, so we're looking into it. It's worth noting that it mostly looks like Rome won wars through a willingness to throw more soldiers into it, rather than by being superior on the battlefield (Pyrrhic Victory comes to mind).

- The scenes, like Messana, are also a work in progress as there's quite a few of them.
 
Hi KickingJoub,

Thanks for your answer! It is quite helpful.

-If you are not supossed to use English, then I have to say it is quite a brave task and I'm impressed by it.

-I actually prefer the republican version of Rome, so no complains in that regard. I just wanted to point out that during the republic, roman equipment was already very very distinguishable (it wasn't until Marius' army reform when we can see that imperial look in the legionaires). In any case, I just wanted to help with it if you agree; if you don't and think that the current state of the roman republic is ok, I'm also fine with it!

-I couldn't agree more about the simplicity of roman strategies: they only wanted a frontal clash, and the Legatus was quite often fighting in the flanks with the cavalry, quite foolish if you want to give swift orders. My point here was that romans excelled at frontal clashes with no strategy whatsoever: without tactics on eityher side they were superior; with them, they were easily beaten, ask Hannibal at the battles of Trebia, Trasimene and Cannae :lol:. Anyway, you alreay said that balance is an ongoing experiment, and once more I'm just here to help, I see in this mod the best rome/greek mod of all M&B.

-Last of all: regarding the Messana scene, do you want me/us to report other locations where it happens, or you don't need it? I guess the same issue is behind all such scenes, but asking won't hurt :razz:


Again: Great mod, great job and I'm glad it is not dead. If I can do anything to help, do tell!
 
A lot of time's been spent getting the names of things right in non-english, though I've had nothing to do with it :roll: Not being a modeler or one of the researchers, :facepalm: all I can say with confidence is that every piece of equipment in the mod is based on a reference :razz:

We welcome all feedback on balance, the more detailed the better, as a broader view brings better results. Just first make sure the issue is with the mod, and not your skills :wink: Not saying that's the case here, just a general ntoe.

As for scenes, we don't need them reported, we're well aware of the current inadequacies :oops: However, if you find stuff like: a single tree floating in the air, or a bush growing in the middle of paving, or NPCs stuck in odd places, we'd like to know. In other words: Stuff that might be overlooked by a tester, as we do test every scene we actually make/add :cool:

Damn do I use a lot of smilies after midnight :party:
 
Hahahah well speaking of NPCs stuck in odd places (although I believe it might be because of the scenes), when conquering one of the cities, in the last stand part (where you fight inside the castle), all my allied troops spawned in the same coordinates, partially inside a column, so they were stuck and couldn't move. Sorry I do not have screenshots, if I see it again I'll screenshot it.
 
Hallo SnD, remember me? We wrote each other some time ago, I contacted you asking about adding towns and villages of the Picenians (Italian East Coast), giving drawings etc.
I'm glad you guys are back working to this amazing mod, consider me at your disposal shall you need any information on the Picenians.
 
EFREM said:
SirKriegor said:
Hahahah well isn't that a deer? Anyway I agree, it's very... revealing  :lol:

Ah, it's a deer? I didn't notice. Maybe because there are too many wieners in a main menu screen disturbing me.  :mad:

Maybe adding Carthage and Elephants and plenty of Corinthians helmets could stop me complaining.
Worry not, I've taken your feedback into account and made a censored version:
r213m.png
You can download it here, just paste it in the mod's texture folder and you don't have to worry about your own sexuality anymore (or just a bit less).

SirKriegor said:
Hahahah well speaking of NPCs stuck in odd places (although I believe it might be because of the scenes), when conquering one of the cities, in the last stand part (where you fight inside the castle), all my allied troops spawned in the same coordinates, partially inside a column, so they were stuck and couldn't move. Sorry I do not have screenshots, if I see it again I'll screenshot it.
Concerning the scenes there were still a couple of missing ones, especially for Hellenistic factions and some villages we're working on that. If there's bugs with existing scenes that would be something important to fix.
About the rest, just saying the mod takes place ~300 B.C. pretty much covers all the points I believe.

Mauro Titius Fiorentini said:
Hallo SnD, remember me? We wrote each other some time ago, I contacted you asking about adding towns and villages of the Picenians (Italian East Coast), giving drawings etc.
I'm glad you guys are back working to this amazing mod, consider me at your disposal shall you need any information on the Picenians.
Thanks again, we're still working on fixing and improving the current version, if we finish the new map we'll hopefully include the Picentes and other Italic tribes.
 
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