Rapid strength growth of kingdoms in 1.3 beta?

[Nokturnel]

Yes this is an important problem. In simulations defenders have 1.5x-5x advantage (average is 3x) changing according to wall level and built siege engines / rams / siege towers. However we could not get same or closer advantage at mission side it is like 1-1.25x in mission side. There is nothing I can do at this area, different people are working on mission side and I reported this problem several times for last 1 year. Even I offer them to start attacker agents with 70% health or do another cheat (I know these are not good solutions) if they cannot get close this 3x ratio anyhow. One another problem death/wounded men ratio is changing so much in different scenes currently. I think some scenes have much better advantage while others have not. Defender AI should be very clever and especially archers should use advantage of merlons to succeed this 3x death ratio in missions and it should be not so easy to do (so thats why I adviced some cheats to mission team). In Warband there was only one ledder / siege tower and number of attackers going inside fortification per minute was less compared to Bannerlord thats why sieges were harder for attackers not because of better defender AI.

Fortifications should be hard to capture and player should lose more troops while doing this, in opposite player should be able to defend a fortification with less men. I know game is hard currently (at 1.3.0 at least) and this will make game harder but it is not realistic / challanging to take a castle / town with losing same men even less men (because player effect) with defenders.

Yea currently the defender AI isn't good enough to understand how to defend the Castle/Town. Like recently I noticed they even stopped using the Hole above the gate to defend the 2nd gate. (No more dropping rocks on people or shooting down at them)

Archer positions also aren't well placed in most locations with a lot of archers just standing around doing nothing. Compared to Warband where they'd all crowd around the area where the enemy was coming in, the defenders in Bannerlord spread out too much, it looks better sure, but their AI isn't smart enough to utilize their positioning correctly. Unless you basically tell them "Everyone rush this spot" they don't understand how to defend.

There seems to be more "Gate Defenders" that crowd behind the 2nd Main Gate than there are men protecting the walls, to the point where they'll even abandon the walls to crowd around the gate. Their positioning is also pretty bad on most maps with them being too far away from the 2nd gate so they don't actually stop anyone from entering from the main gate. (Once the 2nd gate is broken, the attackers can just walk through the gate and flank them)

Another fix that would be nice is have a fallback area for when the walls are taken, instead of telling the defending AI to crowd around the main gate, they should fall back to a smaller area to defend from. (Like the inner keep) As well as not running away so quickly, I'd prefer they just fight till the last man.

Also the Defending Archers who are in position to shoot down at the Battering Ram should abandon their post as soon as the battering ram destroys the main Gate and be told to take position in the room above the 2nd Gate to shoot down at the attackers. Right now only like 1 or 2 attacking troops will even die attacking the 2nd Gate, there needs to be more defenders killing those troops.

 

[stevehoos]

It really baffles me why the siege scenes were set up in this anti defender fashion. Seems as though they built them with little regard to actually being defensively advantageous.

 

[Tobi7043]

This is not a issue, you need to grow so you become stronger, then they wont attack you, of course when you basically are free food they will attack you. I love that they are starting to fill up their garrisons instead of that before, it makes the game alot more fun.

 

[Adijazz1706]

While declaring war kingdoms do not make cheat and do not declare war more frequently to player kingdom.

They declare war to kingdoms which has (total settlement value / total party strength) ratio high, this is one of the most important factor for now - it can be changed when new diplomacy (war-peace decleration) developments are implemented. For now they do not consider that faction is player kingdom or not while declaring war there is no additional bonus / score for player faction.

Currently war decleration / peace mechanisms are basic and they will be developed by time. For now one of the most important factor is (total settlement value / strength) ratio. With 1.3.0 AI lords are recruiting more and they are trying to fill their parties as much as possible also they start to get a small amount of daily xp to their troops (this is one of the three cheats ai do, we have to implement this otherwise it is so hard to lower recruit ratio). Previously game was not challanging at late game and lord parties were full of recruits and they were on map with less number of troops. Now recruit ratio is also dropped to 25-30% from 50% and average party size using ratio is increased to 80% from 55-60%. Thats why their strength is also increased and game become more challanging. In 1.2.0 an average lord party with 100 party size was on map with 55-60 troops now this number is 80, probably this is something good for game and more logical. I know there are missing features at diplomacy for now (they will be implemented by time) and it can be hard to get new settlements to your kingdom and protect all when you have stronger enemies. To be successful at this I suggest you to hire mercenaries or persuade some lords to join your faction before getting lots of new settlements. If you succeed this and decrease that ratio (total settlement value / strength) other kingdoms do not declare wars to you easily or they accept making peace for less amounts. If you cannot do these for now it will be hard to cope with other kingdoms.

Also soon (1.4.0) they will respawn with less troops (with only 10% of party size, currently this is 25%). Also will try to decrease escape chances more.

When you make peace (by paying money) they can redeclare war in a short time. This is one of the biggest problems for now for player probably. This will be fixed but I cannot make time estimation to fix because these war peace decleration systems will be connected to voting systems. There will be big changes there.



AI garrisons are not recruiting but they have also daily xp gain like other npc parties. If lord parties recruit from raided villages this is a bug and will examine this.

Thanks a ton man good to have such a detailed post. I have a question though, why not add the trainer skill in Warband to the leadership skill already in game? This'd work by having like 7% recruits go up to tier 2 and 4% tier 2 go up to tier 3 and 2% tier 3 go to tier 4 per day for high 100-125 leadership which most lords already have

 

[redphoenix596]

This is a huge problem but isn't the fact that sieges are advantaged to the attacker a symptom of a greater problem and not THE problem itself? I mean, isn't the issue that you designed a game all about war with tons of castles and towns to siege, where the AI is incapable of functioning in a balanced matter in the main core of your game? Shouldn't AI (formations, behavior, combat, dealing with elevation, etc etc) and siege design themselves be looked at?

It's not too late to go back and make a game that actually works on the core gameplay it was designed on. We're only in early access the game isn't complete now. It sounds like you guys are trying to "band aid" a problem but aren't looking at actually just making the core of the game (Combat, Battles, Sieges, the main content of the game) function as it should.

Sounds to me like they are working hard to make the "core" problems work even better, but because this takes a while and a lot of work they are giving us some "band aid" in the meantime. I fully salute their efforts and they are doing stellar on it and the "band aid" is perfect for the moment in my opinion! Thanks guys!

 

[csefff]

+1, TLDR comments, I had the same issues as the first comment. I had factions declare war on me, get paid off for peace, then declare war a day or so latter. Multiple factions did this and rinsed out 1m in a week. the new difficulty i guess is not the problem, but perhaps a clearer highlight in the patch notes for such a large shift (i'll not get the build or move back to an older build)...

 

[Tintenkobold]

I decided to change my plans. I did massive recruiting, increased garrison quality & quantity and consequently paying for peace. At the moment I don't have war at all, nobody declares war on me. Even more interesting: My vassals manage to regain strength and many factions which increased strength by up to 100% lost thousands of soldiers. Khuzait was at 18K - now 13K. All other factions lost some K which results in my kingdom being the second strongest. I ask myself what caused this rapid strength decrease after they recruited like crazy. Gonna declare war on Vlandia and check their troop quality/quantity first hand.

 

[mexxico]

Thanks a ton man good to have such a detailed post. I have a question though, why not add the trainer skill in Warband to the leadership skill already in game? This'd work by having like 7% recruits go up to tier 2 and 4% tier 2 go up to tier 3 and 2% tier 3 go to tier 4 per day for high 100-125 leadership which most lords already have

Yes good point. This xp gain will be effected by lord's leadership skill in 1.4.0, this was forgetten. Also player can have this bonus too maybe in future (not planned in 1.4.0 but only idea) so ai lords and player become same again and we get rid of one ai cheat.

+1, TLDR comments, I had the same issues as the first comment. I had factions declare war on me, get paid off for peace, then declare war a day or so latter. Multiple factions did this and rinsed out 1m in a week. the new difficulty i guess is not the problem, but perhaps a clearer highlight in the patch notes for such a large shift (i'll not get the build or move back to an older build)...

Yes this rapid declaring war after peace is a problem and I am currently working on this. Hope to fix it soon.

 

[Sarissofoi]

Yes good point. This xp gain will be effected by lord's leadership skill in 1.4.0, this was forgetten. Also player can have this bonus too maybe in future (not planned in 1.4.0 but only idea) so ai lords and player become same again and we get rid of one ai cheat.
Yes this rapid declaring war after peace is a problem and I am currently working on this. Hope to fix it soon.

Why not add this for player too?
Fighting looter in manual to level up troops is really boring. Just give player some options to level lowest troop tier either by perks or by spending gold.

 

[Sarissofoi]

Even more interesting: My vassals manage to regain strength and many factions which increased strength by up to 100% lost thousands of soldiers. Khuzait was at 18K - now 13K. All other factions lost some K which results in my kingdom being the second strongest. I ask myself what caused this rapid strength decrease after they recruited like crazy. Gonna declare war on Vlandia and check their troop quality/quantity first hand.

Pitched battles.
AI tend to lose plenty troops in battles now as they field massive armies.

 

[Adijazz1706]

Why not add this for player too?
Fighting looter in manual to level up troops is really boring. Just give player some options to level lowest troop tier either by perks or by spending gold.

It does say itll be added brother, theyre gonna add it to AI first and see the feedback as to whether players think its too much/ too little and then implement it for the player as well

 

[Gambles]

Sounds to me like they are working hard to make the "core" problems work even better, but because this takes a while and a lot of work they are giving us some "band aid" in the meantime. I fully salute their efforts and they are doing stellar on it and the "band aid" is perfect for the moment in my opinion! Thanks guys!

Right... Well while you join the forums for an early access game to brown nose, i'll be here submitting feedback, helping others with issues, and ya know being not a damn shill at every opportunity, but hey you do you.

 

[Adijazz1706]

Right... Well while you join the forums for an early access game to brown nose, i'll be here submitting feedback, helping others with issues, and ya know being not a damn shill at every opportunity, but hey you do you.

Quit being aggressive for no reason mate

 

[kreamy]

western empire strength = 70K lol.
what a nightmare, annoying ass grind

 

[Dabos37]

western empire strength = 70K lol.
what a nightmare, annoying ass grind

This looks like a bug using old saves. I have started two playthrough in 1.3.0, one of them +400 day or so and biggest faction had just 4500-5000 strenght.

 

[mexxico]

western empire strength = 70K lol.
what a nightmare, annoying ass grind

If you upload and send me link of your save game I can examine situation. This 70K is really huge. I need to see world situation to make explanation.

 

[Tintenkobold]

Some issues should be fixed with todays patch/hotfix: https://forums.taleworlds.com/index...e1-2-1-beta-hotfix.419548/page-9#post-9411023

At least no more constant war.

 

[redphoenix596]

Quit being aggressive for no reason mate

some people contribute in a constructive and positive way, while others - do not. positive way usually gets things forward better in life and atleast makes people taking part in the process more happy. I'm personally enjoying this game a lot already and I'm very happy they are improving the present features too so I can keep on enjoying the game as it is, while I great anticipate and wait for all the new features that will come in the future.

 

[Reckiario]

Yes they do it. Easy way to see it is to start a army with NPC, go to a raided village and you can see ''XXX +2 recruits'' and you can see the numbers in your army increase.

Not only they are able to recruit in raided villages, but also in enemy villages in beta 1.3. So if you create an army, you can take it to any enemy village and the lords on your army will recruit anyway.

Relation with the village's notables doesn't affect the AI either, so they can recruit anything available. I think this is necesary for the AI, but not for the parties created by the player. So if you create an army with your wife and you go to villages with notables over 300 power, your wife will recruit anything available in that village, including the 3rd, 4th and 5th row of soldiers, which are the ones you wouldn't be able to get unless you increased your reputation. This could be called an exploit.

 

[kreamy]

Some issues should be fixed with todays patch/hotfix: https://forums.taleworlds.com/index...e1-2-1-beta-hotfix.419548/page-9#post-9411023

At least no more constant war.

no the case for me. at war with all factions -> broke my game, i have to execute everybody now. oof.