Ranked mode for Bannerlord?

[Orion]

Point is, none of the meaningful competition takes into account your MMR/ELO/what-have-you. Pro teams play other pro teams in tournaments they qualify for by playing pro teams. Nobody cares about your special pub rating except other players in the special pub, and the outcome of that special pub match is only used to determine your eligibility for special pub matches. It's a little self-contained system that has no bearing on anything else. Why bother, if the real competition is all external to the system?

Like I said, though, it would make sense for dueling and for clan/team matchmaking, because that's where the meaningful competition takes place.

 

[Silvernj]

For aome it's more entertaining to play dome sort of competitive matches than ZHG or some deathmatch crap. Thats all

 

[OurGloriousLeader]

The reason it's still a positive for the overall competitive scene is because it allows every player to play the game at a more competitive level, and ranked allows it to be more fair too. Yes, pro games in dota or CS are vastly different to a pub match but the format is exactly the same, something we can't say about random servers for 50 people that we currently have. It means a player buying the game today can go and join a match with the same rules as the players in the finals of TI, whereas in Warband you need to know the right people, need to be in a clan that can field 8 people, need access to private servers, etc etc.  By removing these obstacles, not only do you draw people into a competitive mode, indeed creating and making 'official' that mode, you also make the pro games more accessible in terms of both playing and watching.

Really it just seems churlish to complain it's not gonna be pro enough, when it would be a vast improvement on the current system.

 

[Apollo ?]

I believe this would take far too much work. We have been waiting on this game for a while now, Why extend the time we will have to wait for it? If you want a ranking system go back to cod or csgo (not that csgo is not stronk)

 

[Shemaforash]

Point is, none of the meaningful competition takes into account your MMR/ELO/what-have-you. Pro teams play other pro teams in tournaments they qualify for by playing pro teams. Nobody cares about your special pub rating except other players in the special pub, and the outcome of that special pub match is only used to determine your eligibility for special pub matches. It's a little self-contained system that has no bearing on anything else. Why bother, if the real competition is all external to the system?

Like I said, though, it would make sense for dueling and for clan/team matchmaking, because that's where the meaningful competition takes place.

What makes you decide on what kind of competition is counted as "real" competition? All it does is make you sound like an elitist that doesn't account for people who simply want to play the game. Also pubbing in games like Dota actually has a real impact in ideas, skill and overall increasing the level of players. Before ranked existed in Dota the average level of a "pro play" was more than manageable by above average players today while real pro plays in 2015 is in a completely different level. I don't know where you're taking your facts from but they're not correct.

 

[Orion]

Also pubbing in games like Dota actually has a real impact in ideas, skill and overall increasing the level of players. Before ranked existed in Dota the average level of a "pro play" was more than manageable by above average players today while real pro plays in 2015 is in a completely different level.

Correlation does not imply causation. Average skill level increase & meta evolution happens naturally as people continue playing the game, regardless of the presence of any arbitrary ranking system. See: Warband.

OGL brought up some valid points, though.

Yes, pro games in dota or CS are vastly different to a pub match but the format is exactly the same, something we can't say about random servers for 50 people that we currently have.

What's the competitive format in Warband? Your answer and mine will surely be different, and which is preferable is merely opinion. An obvious example is Americans playing fastest for the longest time and Europeans sticking to medium. Who gets to set the standard format, and how will it be decided? Though I agree that introducing players to the format is a positive thing and would garner interest for clan/team matches.

Also, you list "access to private servers" as a barrier to competitive play. By shifting to a matchmaking system like this, that obstacle is moved, not removed. TaleWorlds would have to provide a matchmaking service and either cooperate with private server owners or provide servers of their own for these matches to be played on. As much as I like their games, I wouldn't exactly have a lot of faith in TaleWorlds' ability to provide long-term oversight for that. They're conspicuously aloof from the community, and such a system would require constant attention from them. The person to talk to about this is Lust, as he's supposed to interface for us.

One more little thing:

something we can't say about random servers for 50 people that we currently have.

I realize Bannerlord will bring in a big surge of new players, but sustaining a high player count is critical for a ranked matchmaking system. Our current pool of players wouldn't suffice it in any reasonable way. The point of ranked matchmaking would be moot when there are so few players that the lowest and highest are matched together out of necessity. I earnestly hope the community sustains some growth after Bannerlord's release, but it would have to be significant (at least in NA) for ranked matchmaking to properly function. It wouldn't take as much for EU, and might even be minimally feasible right now, but more is always better in such systems.

 

[OurGloriousLeader]

What's the competitive format in Warband? Your answer and mine will surely be different, and which is preferable is merely opinion. An obvious example is Americans playing fastest for the longest time and Europeans sticking to medium. Who gets to set the standard format, and how will it be decided? Though I agree that introducing players to the format is a positive thing and would garner interest for clan/team matches.

Isn't this an argument for standardising the competitive game mode via some sort of official matchmaking? The rules for it can be discussed during beta or some such but once it's settled that should be a good thing.

Also, you list "access to private servers" as a barrier to competitive play. By shifting to a matchmaking system like this, that obstacle is moved, not removed. TaleWorlds would have to provide a matchmaking service and either cooperate with private server owners or provide servers of their own for these matches to be played on. As much as I like their games, I wouldn't exactly have a lot of faith in TaleWorlds' ability to provide long-term oversight for that. They're conspicuously aloof from the community, and such a system would require constant attention from them. The person to talk to about this is Lust, as he's supposed to interface for us.

I realize Bannerlord will bring in a big surge of new players, but sustaining a high player count is critical for a ranked matchmaking system. Our current pool of players wouldn't suffice it in any reasonable way. The point of ranked matchmaking would be moot when there are so few players that the lowest and highest are matched together out of necessity. I earnestly hope the community sustains some growth after Bannerlord's release, but it would have to be significant (at least in NA) for ranked matchmaking to properly function. It wouldn't take as much for EU, and might even be minimally feasible right now, but more is always better in such systems.

The feasibility of it, how long it will last, and other such practicalities are a concern sure but a little separate from whether matchmaking and ranked is something we actually want. Obviously if it's done badly it's bad but I'm assuming it's done well. Also from what I hear TW in general and Lust in particular have learned a fair amount from multiplayer in Warband so I'm happy to give them the benefit of the doubt. Proof is in the pudding as they say (I think that's a phrase?)

 

[Scar]

I realize Bannerlord will bring in a big surge of new players, but sustaining a high player count is critical for a ranked matchmaking system. Our current pool of players wouldn't suffice it in any reasonable way. The point of ranked matchmaking would be moot when there are so few players that the lowest and highest are matched together out of necessity. I earnestly hope the community sustains some growth after Bannerlord's release, but it would have to be significant (at least in NA) for ranked matchmaking to properly function. It wouldn't take as much for EU, and might even be minimally feasible right now, but more is always better in such systems.

Yeah definitely. But maybe the ranked system that OGL described will be the the reason why the old players stay and new ones join. I've gotta be honest, I get bored of IG Battlegrounds pretty quickly now. I played POM yesterday, same issue. If I could play a ranked match with a friend or a team even I think I could get a lot more out of the game than just running in circles and killing unexperienced players from behind.

 

[Orion]

There's merit to the concept. I rushed to the assumption that it was intended to replace clan/team play as the primary form of competition. I still think it's inherently less competitive and I'm against the idea of visible ranks (I think they would only promote elitism), but an option to play in a standardized competition format would broaden the scope of competitive Mount & Blade and at the very least offer more variety for game modes.

 

[Firunien]

Yeah definitely. But maybe the ranked system that OGL described will be the the reason why the old players stay and new ones join. I've gotta be honest, I get bored of IG Battlegrounds pretty quickly now. I played POM yesterday, same issue. If I could play a ranked match with a friend or a team even I think I could get a lot more out of the game than just running in circles and killing unexperienced players from behind.

This, a ranked 8v8 would be much nicer to just practice, i find it really hard to train on IG (it´s still the best server to train though). The reason why i would like it to be ranked isnt to get something like a nice rank or stuff, its just about playing with people who actually try to win.. and on pub as it is now its all about kills, for example bumping is no fun when you get literally nothing for it, not even a thanks :3

But real Teams should still play via arranging matches with other teams in personal, it wouldnt work with a matching system ( maybe 8 people stack, but not random people).

 

[Newbiejunky]

I believe this would take far too much work. We have been waiting on this game for a while now, Why extend the time we will have to wait for it? If you want a ranking system go back to cod or csgo (not that csgo is not stronk)

At the beginning of CS:GO there were no ranked game. It came after the game was released. So why not with Bannerlord?

Yeah definitely. But maybe the ranked system that OGL described will be the the reason why the old players stay and new ones join. I've gotta be honest, I get bored of IG Battlegrounds pretty quickly now. I played POM yesterday, same issue. If I could play a ranked match with a friend or a team even I think I could get a lot more out of the game than just running in circles and killing unexperienced players from behind.

This, a ranked 8v8 would be much nicer to just practice, i find it really hard to train on IG (it´s still the best server to train though). The reason why i would like it to be ranked isnt to get something like a nice rank or stuff, its just about playing with people who actually try to win.. and on pub as it is now its all about kills, for example bumping is no fun when you get literally nothing for it, not even a thanks :3

But real Teams should still play via arranging matches with other teams in personal, it wouldnt work with a matching system ( maybe 8 people stack, but not random people).

I support this.
Rank has nothing to do with teams. It's just a way to play competitive with friends.
There are no pro teams that play ranked game because it's pointless lol.
Nevertheless, pro players play ranked game because it's much more fun for them.

 

[SoothSayerSaxon]

Well this exploded overnight

I agree that Ranks might cause elitism but as of now we can still check a players steam profile for hours played and base opinions on a player off of that. I think the warband community has always been so humble which is why this is not really heard of. I think the introduction of newer players in addition to a ranked system would cause the most elitism however, it is the people that are elitist not the ranked system itself. It would all depend on how players respond to ranks, everyone here has learnt how good someone is by fighting them not by a number. For the existing players I dont think the addition of a number will suddenly change their opinions of a player.

 

[Watly]

Is elitism really a bad thing? It promotes playing more and better to also be able to attain those ranks, because people want to feel good about themselves and their ranks. At least, this is what happened in LoL out of my experience.

 

[SoothSayerSaxon]

Is elitism really a bad thing? It promotes playing more and better to also be able to attain those ranks, because people want to feel good about themselves and their ranks. At least, this is what happened in LoL out of my experience.

I don't think I would care much for it however I wouldn't want the Bannerlord community to become at all toxic. Warband is unique in its absence of all the flame.

 

[Newbiejunky]

Warband is unique in its absence of all the flame.

Naaaah

 

[Snooptheroop]

Interesting.

 

[Greedalicious]

People already rate people by their skill level, nothing would change there.
Elitism also exists as it will in any game. The last steam sale is a good example of that. I saw people ask completely legit questions because they were new at the game and people who should be helping them just insulted and even at times tried to poll them off the server. Really doesnt take long to answer "you`ll spawn once the round is over." We might not be as dickish as LoL, but we`re certainly not perfect. (I also saw people help them out, so kuudos to those  )

As for having a ranked system, perfect! Ranked games are made for people who want to be ranked. If you dont want to be ranked, then just avoid that aspect of the game. For example I dont play dota ranked. Actually I dont play any ranked games anymore, but you bet i`d queue up for bannerlord ranked games (if the game is good)
We had a look at making a ranked system a while ago but took too much time and the game wasnt optimized for it. Seen some incredible things be modded into warband and if this improves in bannerlord I`m optimistic, although a taleworld made system would be better.

Also isnt MMR and ELO decided by team wins and not individual performance?

 

[Shemaforash]

Also isnt MMR and ELO decided by team wins and not individual performance?

Yes, but the calibration phase which I think most players are confused by is mostly by winrate and individual factors.

 

[Froi]

Recruit I
Recruit II
Recruit III
Recruit IV
Recruit Elite
Recruit Elite Master
Regular I
Regular II
Veteran Master
Master Sergeant
Sergeant At Arms
Master Squire Elite
Distinguished Knight Guardian
Legendary Knight at Arms
Legendary Sergeant Knight at Arms Master
Supreme Master Knight First Class
Global Grandmaster Knight

 

[Shemaforash]

Or we go straight by elo/mmr because it's just a better system.