Ranked/competitive mode, one of the right ways to do it

[DainMorgot]

I have not played bannerlord seriously the last 2 months (other than a few tests which led me to continue ignoring the game further) due to taleworlds extremely questionable decisions but that does not mean I do not like the franchise, so here is my personal proposal on how the ranked mode should work.

The following plan takes individual skill into account and team vs solos in the matchmaking, because let's be honest, the playerbase is tiny and even if it grows it will remain a niche. Also, this plan is for pure PvP, not captain's.

General:

The mode for the competitive playerbase should be Skirmish with class retuning and spawn/gold rebalance or battle with 1 life. Obviously, different modes require different tuning but the principles would be, overall, the same. 6v6, balanced maps.

The earnable ranks should be as, I use generic rank names:

Division 1:
Man At Arms I
Man At Arms II
Man At Arms III

Division 2:
Sergeant I
Sergeant II
Sergeant III

Division 3:
Knight I
Knight II
Knight III

Division 4:
Noble I
Noble II
Noble III


The question arives as to why there are 3 subranks within each division. Since Mount and blade has a certain skillgap, subranks help matchmaking mostly. A division 1-3 should never, ever match with anything over Division 3 I (one).


How are ranks earned, and how can I, individually, have an impact at my rating?

All divisions except division 1, should have an entry fee to the match. Let's name the currency Calradian Tokens, CT. Each win grants double the entry fee and a bit more.

in-depth: Division 1 has 0 CT entry fee. Division 2 has 100 entry fee, Division 3 has 130 entry fee and Division 4 has 150 entry fee. Essentially, if you have just hit division 2, you are required to pay 100 CT. If you lose, it's probable that you will go back to division 1. But you can climb again.

Individual skill on earning CT:

Within each match, kills, captures, assists, horse killing should all grant minimal CT points with earnable caps. Enemy player kills should grant 1 CT with a maximum of lets say 20, assists should grant half a CT, caps should grant 2 and horse killings 1.

With this system, individual skill will help good players climb and lose less CT when they lose a match because of their individual skill that earned them CT, and with the probability of actually gaining a few CT if they performed phenomenally in a game even though they lost. This system will help players climb the first ranks up to division 2 III, then on Division 3 and 4, winning should be top priority to climb.

Premade versus solos:

Following the same principle with the CT system, solo players should get a discount on entry fee, if they face a premade of over 2 people. The premade team proceeds with standard fee entries.




This is a very rough plan, that would technically award both premades and solo players accordingly. Remember that the best way to play competitive modes across all games are with a team and communication.

All ranks should award cosmetic items, on a seasonal rotation.

 

[Mabons]

Interesting take on the system with CT points, is there a game out there that follows a similar sort of thing?

 

[Aprikosenmann]

Why this weird point system when a mmr system is the best matchmaking system out there. LoL, CSGO, Starcraft are having success for a reason. Only won matches should count and not kills. Cav players have the most kills and assists.

 

[DainMorgot]

Why this weird point system when a mmr system is the best matchmaking system out there. LoL, CSGO, Starcraft are having success for a reason. Only won matches should count and not kills.

These games have massive fanbases, and could also afford solo queue. Kills and assists are indicators of you playing well, aswell as flag caps. They cannot carry you to the next rank alone, but they can certainly help you when your teammates are braindead bots. Only won matches sound good on paper, but not everyone will be able to play on a premade. Mount and blade is vastly different in gameplay from those games you mentioned, and arguably slower, have more customization and have more playstyles.

Cav players have the most kills and assists.

Which is a balance problem, mentioned since a year ago in the beta. I already addressed this in the first lines ''after class tuning''. This plan takes into account that the game is actually playable and balanced.

Interesting take on the system with CT points, is there a game out there that follows a similar sort of thing?

Apex Legends and Gears 5 follow a similar pattern, although I have added further individuality to it and the discount vs premades.

 

[Aprikosenmann]

Kills and assists are the indicator that you are playing well and when you play well you will climb.
Rewarding kills supports KDA playstyle and requires Cav Range Inf to be perfectly balanced. Which will never happen. Good Inf players have a negative K/D on even matches (RM vs DM)

 

[DainMorgot]

Kills and assists are the indicator that you are playing well and when you play well you will climb.
Rewarding kills supports KDA playstyle and requires Cav Range Inf to be perfectly balanced. Which will never happen. Good Inf players have a negative K/D on even matches (RM vs DM)

I do not disagree to this, but infantry is garbage in bannerlord, once they actually fix it, I believe it will be much better. Giving 1% of the total win CP for a kill is not game-breaking. And I dont think that good players should be punished as much after a loss with the bot who went only after kills and died within a minute from the start of the round. CT will motivate players to play together, cap flags and assist even if a kill is not confirmed by their part. The numbers can be adjusted.

 

[Aprikosenmann]

I do not disagree to this, but infantry is garbage in bannerlord, once they actually fix it, I believe it will be much better. Giving 1% of the total win CP for a kill is not game-breaking. And I dont think that good players should be punished as much after a loss with the bot who went only after kills and died within a minute from the start of the round. CT will motivate players to play together, cap flags and assist even if a kill is not confirmed by their part. The numbers can be adjusted.

Yeah. Your system requires a complete rework of skirmish and classes. This wont happen. The standard mmr system can be applied to skirmish as it stands.

 

[Septimius Tullius]

Nice idea, if there were enough BL MP players to make it viable which is currently not the case

 

[Aprikosenmann]

Nice idea, if there were enough BL MP players to make it viable which is currently not the case

Problem is, people are not playing skirmish because of unfair teams.

 

[Brandis.]

M&B should just stick to elo-derivatives such as TrueSkill.

Adding in a complex "buy" system seems rather silly and redundant. Not to mention a custom system would need constant refinement from TW while TrueSkill no doubt has lots of helpful documentation.

Adding in performance based MMR also is a bad idea, at least in the high ranks. The only thing that should matter is if you win or lose. If there's a secondary goal to winning, that will just encourage players to greed for stats.

 

[FearSpear]

Problem is, people are not playing skirmish because of unfair teams.

The weaklings have been scared off permanently from NA servers can confirm

 

[Pacemaker]

The only thing that should matter is if you win or lose. If there's a secondary goal to winning, that will just encourage players to greed for stats.

This 100%. It's not just the fact that it will encourage people to pull dumb stunts in order to kill steal, K/D is only half the truth (at best) when considering actual team contribution.

 

[DainMorgot]

M&B should just stick to elo-derivatives such as TrueSkill.

Adding in a complex "buy" system seems rather silly and redundant. Not to mention a custom system would need constant refinement from TW while TrueSkill no doubt has lots of helpful documentation.

Adding in performance based MMR also is a bad idea, at least in the high ranks. The only thing that should matter is if you win or lose. If there's a secondary goal to winning, that will just encourage players to greed for stats.

They are not silly, this system is very closely adopted by Apex which is a huge game competitively. The individual rewarding happens by doing actual in-game objectives with the team and there is a cap at the earned assists/kills/caps, you cannot go on indefinitely and earn extra points. The only thing mattering being win or lose is extremely outdated and suggests that everyone can get into premades, which will never happen. If solo players or smaller teams (2-3 man) do not enjoy their time, then the ranked mode will be as **** and empty as the current Bannerlord playerbase. Which is almost certain, because premades cannot be defeated in a game that ganking people with multiple infantry and backstabbing cavalry is literally the best way to play.

 

[Aprikosenmann]

They are not silly, this system is very closely adopted by Apex which is a huge game competitively. The individual rewarding happens by doing actual in-game objectives with the team and there is a cap at the earned assists/kills/caps, you cannot go on indefinitely and earn extra points. The only thing mattering being win or lose is extremely outdated and suggests that everyone can get into premades, which will never happen. If solo players or smaller teams (2-3 man) do not enjoy their time, then the ranked mode will be as **** and empty as the current Bannerlord playerbase. Which is almost certain, because premades cannot be defeated in a game that ganking people with multiple infantry and backstabbing cavalry is literally the best way to play.

Apex needs it cuz its battle royale where avoiding fights will get you placements. And saying that a battleroyale is closer to skirmish than csgo is weird. Premades get balanced by matching stronger people against them.

 

[mAtAtA]

Premades get balanced by matching stronger people against them

That is oversimplifying things. Premades can be balanced only by matching with other premades. Not with 6 randoms that played for a year to barely achieve 750 wins. Individual skill should DEFINITELY be measured in many ways.
I'm not sure why some people here are against it, especially those that are part of clans, it shouldn't affect them now, they should honestly be bored of stompimg randoms by now. Those kind of comments are at the very least shortsighted.

 

[Aprikosenmann]

That is oversimplifying things. Premades can be balanced only by matching with other premades. Not with 6 randoms that played for a year to barely achieve 750 wins. Individual skill should DEFINITELY be measured in many ways.
I'm not sure why some people here are against it, especially those that are part of clans, it shouldn't affect them now, they should honestly be bored of stompimg randoms by now. Those kind of comments are at the very least shortsighted.

The easiest way to avoid this problem is to allow only solo or 6 stack. Maybe allow duo but then like I said the duo must either play vs another duo or have slightly stronger enemys. I am talking about skirmish with elo matchmaking btw.

 

[DainMorgot]

Apex needs it cuz its battle royale where avoiding fights will get you placements. And saying that a battleroyale is closer to skirmish than csgo is weird. Premades get balanced by matching stronger people against them.

The mode itself as a design has nothing to do with the rank system. I am not sure what CSGO has to do in comparison with Bannerlord, and why you mention it, Apex could survive on the outdated MMR system like other games have, but they chose to go another way and it's working much better. Win/loss is by far the biggest factor on climbing, while individual points earned are added on the top of the win/loss and punish you less if you played the objectives.

The easiest way to avoid this problem is to allow only solo or 6 stack. Maybe allow duo but then like I said the duo must either play vs another duo or have slightly stronger enemys. I am talking about skirmish with elo matchmaking btw.

This will never happen, 6 stack and solo queue cannot make it into bannerlord because of the tiny playerbase. Premades versus solos is the unfortunate way that will follow due to the number of the playerbase. If individual skill does not get rewarded in the form of lesser punishment or extra climb when a won is taken, then the game will be clan versus solos or premades versus solos in general. The effects of this can already be seen in regural matchmaking, where the playerbase has been shrinked due to the unfair matchmaking.

 

[GEO_MihaWk.]

The mode itself as a design has nothing to do with the rank system. I am not sure what CSGO has to do in comparison with Bannerlord, and why you mention it, Apex could survive on the outdated MMR system like other games have, but they chose to go another way and it's working much better. Win/loss is by far the biggest factor on climbing, while individual points earned are added on the top of the win/loss and punish you less if you played the objectives.




This will never happen, 6 stack and solo queue cannot make it into bannerlord because of the tiny playerbase. Premades versus solos is the unfortunate way that will follow due to the number of the playerbase. If individual skill does not get rewarded in the form of lesser punishment or extra climb when a won is taken, then the game will be clan versus solos or premades versus solos in general. The effects of this can already be seen in regural matchmaking, where the playerbase has been shrinked due to the unfair matchmaking.

True, like yesterday I was waiting 5 minutes to join a skirmish game at 8 pm EST time (NA) and the game started 4v4.... And second game I got matched vs a 6 stack I don't mind it but 4 players from my team left after the first round because the round was over in 20 sec, every game I get in and my team is fighting a 6 stack is disaster because they simply want to enjoy the game but they can't...

 

[Caps]

Kills and assists are the indicator that you are playing well and when you play well you will climb.
Rewarding kills supports KDA playstyle and requires Cav Range Inf to be perfectly balanced. Which will never happen. Good Inf players have a negative K/D on even matches (RM vs DM)

usually a mmr system consists out of kills because its a decent metric to see how well a player does (doesnt mean that can be the only metric to tell how well a player did) But its far easier to rank "better" players quicker than usual then.

apex ranked system is the biggest garbage out there, it doesnt even do the most basic things a ranked system should do - matching players with equal skill to have enjoyable matches.

 

[Aprikosenmann]

usually a mmr system consists out of kills because its a decent metric to see how well a player does (doesnt mean that can be the only metric to tell how well a player did) But its far easier to rank "better" players quicker than usual then.

As many others quoted its basically a no go for a teamgame. It rewards and encourages egoistic behaviour. You have to rely on the winrate and it works perfectly fine. Rewarding kills is just for keeping crybabys calm who can't handle a loss even though they performed well.