ranged difficulty vs hitboxes

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Manitas

Grandmaster Knight
I got the feeling that ranged warfare is lil too easy - at around 100 proficiency it's difficult not to score headshots all the time.

One of the reasons is that head hitbox seems too big. They fall dead even if the projectile barely touches their haircut. I also noticed that hits to the upper torso count as headshots. Also I'm not sure, but I doubt a head is that vulnerable to arrows - the skull is one of the most sturdy bones, and with the helmet on, arrows are deflected at certain angle range, only hits around the visual center got the chance to penetrate.

But simply reducing hitbox size would not work, as projectiles would seem to fly through the head sometimes, and they'd consider it a bug. My solution is to make 'em be deflected.

Here comes the embedded hitbox.

My idea is as follows: the outer hitbox is about the size of current hitboxes, inside of it there's another, somewhat smaller hitbox.

If the outer hitbox test passes, test is performed on the inner hitbox.
If it's positive - so it's a hit
if it's negative - projectile gets deflected


I'm not sure if I'm clear enough, so here's a picture:
hitbox.gif
 
sweet idea! they should implement it everywhere on the body, if someone's wearing decent armour.
 
well, not all npc dies from headshots, it have happend a few times when im shootin on black kniggeths that they take 0 damage... luckily its fat to get into close combat or horse back fightin so they die anyway :grin:
 
It's similar to an idea i had gor a game like this, but probably better.

Hitting the outside hitbox but not the inside hitbox with any weapon will result in a 'glancing blow'. The damage recieved from such a glancing blow will be somewhat reduced overall, and significantly reduced for heavier armours. So while a full on attack against someone with padded cloth will do 30 damage, a glancing attack might do 7. Against an even heavier armour, say, full plate, a full on attack that does 30 damage might only do 1 damage with a glancing shot, or even none at all.
 
Also, I think that inner hitboxes could come in at least 2 different sizes, depending on the type of armor, as plate is able to deflect projectiles more effectvely than armor made of some flexible material like leather or mail.
 
But you need to take in to consideration that a head without a helmet will not "deflect" the arrow. Rather, the arrow will tear some bone and cause a concussion and loss of conciousness. And anyway, even a minor wound in the head region can cause a major bleeding of blood. And that would affect your eyesight most probably...

So if we are trying to get the game more realistic we should think about all the aspects. . .

So as my two cents.. I would like it that helmets would deflect the shot in certain angles, and the archer would be forced to aim to the face. But in a 90 degree angle an arrow shot from the long bow will penetrate a lot.

(Or, so i have read atleast, don't own an english long bow or a piece pf platemail for that matter...)
 
I agree that arrow can scratch bone if the angle of incidence is slightly bigger than arrowhead slope.

But as realism is being called out, I got to disagree with the concussion and the loss of consciousness, at least if we talking about arrrows. These have the least energy of all those things on the battlefield that can harm, let alone the momentum. All they can cause upon being deflected is pain and some bleeding.

And about blood filling the eyes: that's why we have eyesockets and eyebrows that will direct any fluid towards the nose.


But yeah, my suggestion is not even halfway between the current system and per poly hit detection, but it's biggest advantage is the ease of implementation.
 
I like the idea of reducing the head hit box while wearing a helmet. I think it gives you another reason to wear a helmet.
 
Helmets should definitely reduce the head hitboxes. As of now, they are the most useless piece of armor for enemies: your hit kills anyway.

Glancing blows are a wonderful idea but might be hard to implement ( or so it seems to me).
 
Manitas said:
I agree that arrow can scratch bone if the angle of incidence is slightly bigger than arrowhead slope.

But as realism is being called out, I got to disagree with the concussion and the loss of consciousness, at least if we talking about arrrows. These have the least energy of all those things on the battlefield that can harm, let alone the momentum. All they can cause upon being deflected is pain and some bleeding.

And about blood filling the eyes: that's why we have eyesockets and eyebrows that will direct any fluid towards the nose.


But yeah, my suggestion is not even halfway between the current system and per poly hit detection, but it's biggest advantage is the ease of implementation.

hm. I really have to disagree. I really enjoy fighting with wooden replicas of medieval weapons. I know there are fantasy battles with 2-5 hundred people in countries like Germany, France, GB and also in USA and Canada . But they use latex weapons which can be bought and are really light and fast, but do a little harm. It's like pillow war for me :wink: We make our weapons ourselves from wood, carpet (no joke, it's called jekor...kind of bendable material for axes and stuff.) and others. Well, people are forced to learn som basics of swordfighting, unlike people in other countries I've seen on some videos from their battles. They just hit and hit and hit... :smile: some even hold the sword like a log. Well. That's not what I wanted to say.
I've been hit by an arrow (a soft one with a little...what should I call it..hmm...pillow...like soft thingie on the sharp end, which of course is not sharp. :smile: ) many times. Lots of them hit my head :wink: I tried with and without helmet (well, helmet..mine was like scale armor cap, I can post you a picture.) And even when wearing the cap, I was stunned. Some hit in me in the face, those would probably lead to my death. Some just bang!ed and flew away. Well...I could maybe survive that with my skin cut off, or a minor skull wound...but even those had quite an impact. You know, I really felt them :wink: your head, even if the skull is hard, is vulnerable. A hit from something that moves as fast as an arrow can not be taken lightly. Hmmm...I'm blabbing. the thing is, that even a soft blunt arrow is able to stun you for...about..10-20 seconds...
 
Yes, but you were just stunned. In a battle situation, that helmet would prevent an arrow from actualy piercing your skull. A 90 dergrres hit in the face is a certain death while a glanceing hit on the side will be a small wound and shock. It will be nasty, but nowhere near the full arrow impact!
 
This is exactly why most RP's have a "graze" rule. I support this completely. Furthermore, I think this should be implemented for all body parts, because although an arrow will hardly be deflected from your shoulder or shin, a flesh wound on your left flank will definitely be less dangerous than a dead-center hit in your guts.

If it's a grazing hit, the base damage (Damage before the armor rating is subtracted) should be significantly reduced, maybe by 75%. This way grazing hits would deal a little damage to unarmored foes and none at all to armored targets. The projectile should also not stick to the target but pass through, or even turn to the side and continue in a new direction if that's possible to implement.

I also agree that the deflection chance should be higher for armored targets, and the most logical way to do this would be making the inner hitbox's size dependent on the target's armor.
 
okiN said:
This is exactly why most RP's have a "graze" rule. I support this completely. Furthermore, I think this should be implemented for all body parts, because although an arrow will hardly be deflected from your shoulder or shin, a flesh wound on your left flank will definitely be less dangerous than a dead-center hit in your guts.

If it's a grazing hit, the base damage (Damage before the armor rating is subtracted) should be significantly reduced, maybe by 75%. This way grazing hits would deal a little damage to unarmored foes and none at all to armored targets. The projectile should also not stick to the target but pass through, or even turn to the side and continue in a new direction if that's possible to implement.

I also agree that the deflection chance should be higher for armored targets, and the most logical way to do this would be making the inner hitbox's size dependent on the target's armor.

Well. :smile: that's quite an idea. I only wonder if it could be implemented with present engine and if it wouldn't decrease fps..
I've been also thinking about something else. I'm not sure if someone would like it, but I personally like effects like screen blurring or getting little red when player is hit. Like in some fps game. CoD and so...Or some effect when you're stunned..
 
Yeah, agreed :wink:

In case anybody still didn't know what I was talking about - here's a picture of a javelin that took most of my HP's.
javelin.jpg

Note that it managed to hit the hitbox only (left arm looks like pierced, but it was not there when it hit)
 
It's stuck to the ribbcage, like if I was some human javelin magnet. The arm clipped with javelin when I unequiped a bow. Arms don't have hitboxes anyway.

Damn, I should have dismounted before taking the screenshot.

Got another, look what killed this guy:
jav2.jpg


If you're going, to north of Zendar
Be sure to wear, some arrows in your hair.
 
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