RAMBO TACTIC, DEAR CAPTAINS, CAST UR VOTE!

[Olaf The Cruel]

There is no doubt, the rambo meta is bad and has to be addressed. But what do you think TW should do to fight this tactic ? Please, cast your vote as objectively as possible. Be faithful to the overall gameplay and balance. TW will probably turn many parameters, but you only have one vote, so we can see what parameter you guys think is the most important.

This thread discusses the pro's and con's : https://forums.taleworlds.com/index.php?threads/kick-button.445166/

 

[Sigaretovic]

Sorry, this poll doesnt reflect what i want. Its not neceserily a or/or vote. My vote is something like all of the above.

 

[Zarthas]

HORSE GO SPLAT on pikes.

 

[Alyss]

players should be automatically banned from the game for life if they get more kills than the AI they control.

 

[Craven4]

We already have half the fix. Vote kick has worked decently for it so far just needs to be extended. Custom servers will fix this when you have more options to not play with people like that

 

[Horatius]

What a **** poll, you made it very specific but with very few options.

Also you assume everyone wants ramboing gone, git gud nub

 

[aLiaXXXanger]

I am a strict adherent of the atmosphere of maximum realism of the game. It is transmitted primarily due to the variety/unlimited choice of tactical possibilities, the set of which for a particular player depends only on the current level of development of his playing skills. Based on this, the Rambo tactics, used to achieve victory, in principle, should have the right to life (especially since this is not an imba tactic). And the abuse of this tactic for other purposes, as well as the other unreasonable tactics, should be punished by a kick from teammates.
Today, the choice of this tactic by individual players is a reasonable response to the existing flaws in the captains regime:
- very low efficiency of the response of the AI of the cavalry to control its squad;
- the weakness of the AI of archers who shoot themselves and do not adequately choose the priority of the target;
- the weakness of the AI of the spearmen, who do not react well to the approach of cavalry (choice of weapons, use of the peak in anti-cavalry mode) and the inefficiency of their formations.
Solving these initial problems will not only greatly reduce the wisdom of choosing Rambo tactics, but will also increase the appeal of Captains Mode by further increasing the realism of the gameplay.
Limiting tactical capabilities by any conventions, whether it be binding a squad to its captain, reducing the number of captains' lives, etc. i think it's the stupidest mistake. Ultimately, this will lead to the death of the game due to the loss of its realism - its main competitive advantage.
I hope @Callum and others guys from the TW team understand this well and choose the right direction for her evolutionary development.

 

[Ling*]

I am a strict adherent of the atmosphere of maximum realism of the game. It is transmitted primarily due to the variety/unlimited choice of tactical possibilities, the set of which for a particular player depends only on the current level of development of his playing skills. Based on this, the Rambo tactics, used to achieve victory, in principle, should have the right to life. And the abuse of this tactic for other purposes, as well as the other unreasonable tactics, should be punished by a kick from teammates.
Today, the choice of this tactic by individual players is a reasonable response to the existing flaws in the captains regime:
- very low efficiency of the response of the AI of the cavalry to control its squad;
- the weakness of the AI of archers who shoot themselves and do not adequately choose the priority of the target;
- the weakness of the AI of the spearmen, who do not react well to the approach of cavalry (choice of weapons, use of the peak in anti-cavalry mode) and the inefficiency of their formations.
Solving these initial problems will not only greatly reduce the wisdom of choosing Rambo tactics, but will also increase the appeal of Captains Mode by further increasing the realism of the gameplay.
Limiting tactical capabilities by any conventions, whether it be binding a squad to its captain, reducing the number of captains' lives, etc. i think it's the stupidest mistake. Ultimately, this will lead to the death of the game due to the loss of its realism - its main competitive advantage.
I hope @Callum and others guys from the TW team understand this well and choose the right direction for her evolutionary development.

Ah yes, nothing screams realism quite like dying and then coming back to life as another person. Perhaps reincarnation is real after all?

 

[Mad Vader]

I hope @Callum and others guys from the TW team understand this well and choose the right direction for her evolutionary development.

While you are basically right to point to flaws that enable exploits, that doesn't solve the problem in the immediate future. And we know based on past experience that Taleworlds won't fix those flaws, so a quick fix like leashing is all you can expect.
If Taleworlds decide to drastically improve their formation and troop AI in the future (and address their flaws), they could remove the quick fixes then. Just don't bet on it.

 

[sir Gregor Clegane]

There is no doubt, Rambo tactics is bad and has to be addressed. But what do you think TW should do to fight this tactic ? Please, cast your vote as objectively as possible. Be faithful to the overall gameplay and balance.

This thread discusses the pro's and con's : https://forums.taleworlds.com/index.php?threads/kick-button.445166/

Gods, I did not think that the developers would be able to make bots even dumber than they were before). I have not played captains mode for six months, after watching this video I will not play it for at least as many more.

 

[Calabanar]

I found my fix: not playing a broken piece of junk held together with old glue.

 

[AxiosXiphos]

I still think a unit 'tether' is arguably the cleanest solution, if you are too far away from your nearest squad mate; the unit charges without orders.

Simple and effective. People can argue for days whether they think 'Rambo' is skill or not; I don't believe using 10 lives to kill 15 bots is the height of skill... but there we are.

 

[ParzivaI]

The only reason this rambo problem started in the first place was because of the nerf and perk removal done to the archer/skirmish classes,
I remember that in the beta and the first 3 months of EA, this wasn't a problem, they removed the pikes/spears from the archer class, and that unit became defenseless agaist cav... It was very rare for cav players approach the archer units, because they saw the spears, smart cav players would only attack if the enemy didn't bring any... The cav was used as supporting role (as it should be), helped the players during the charge or engaged the enemy cav.
Also there are factions like the Aserai/Empire that are super weak agaist other faction like the khuzait or Sturgia, the only way players have a chance to win, is by resorting to this tactics.. and even using rambo it's not guaranted win because of how powerful some factions are agaist others...

 

[AxiosXiphos]

The only reason this rambo problem started in the first place was because of the nerf and perk removal done to the archer/skirmish classes,
I remember that in the beta and the first 3 months of EA, this wasn't a problem, they removed the pikes/spears from the archer class, and that unit became defenseless agaist cav... It was very rare for cav players approach the archer units, because they saw the spears, smart cav players would only attack if the enemy didn't bring any... The cav was used as supporting role (as it should be), helped the players during the charge or engaged the enemy cav.
Also there are factions like the Aserai/Empire that are super weak agaist other faction like the khuzait or Sturgia, the only way players have a chance to win, is by resorting to this tactics.. and even using rambo it's not guaranted win because of how powerful some factions are agaist others...

I agree to an extent - but people will always try to use this 'strategy' no matter how balanced you make the game. People loves to get up their K/D/A's even if it harms their sides chances of winning. It doesn't matter if it is effective or not - it's just simply not a fun component of this mode and for that reason alone it should be fixed.

Deathmatch is for lone-fighting. Captains mode should require you to lead bots; as that is the game mode.

 

[Calabanar]

Perhaps personally killing troops should award less points. It's a pretty forced way to do it, but the try-hards wanting to remain on top of the leaderboard would have to stop ramboing.

 

[Ling*]

Perhaps personally killing troops should award less points. It's a pretty forced way to do it, but the try-hards wanting to remain on top of the leaderboard would have to stop ramboing.

I don't think this is why they do it. People rambo because it is an efficient use of lives, more efficient than using your troops as intended. A player can spend 1 life to rack up 10 kills whereas a single Ai troop is unlikely to ever achieve that many on it's own. 1 life for 10 kills is more efficient than 10 lives for 10 kills, and that's how people who rambo see their ai troops, as extra lives since there are unlimited respawns as long as you have units on the field that you can spawn into. So the strategy is to preserve your troops (extra lives) and go off on your own to accumulate kills while you are only risking the 1 life. It simply will not go away until the mechanic disappears entirely.

 

[Calabanar]

Then AxiosZiphos’s idea I support.

 

[Spottswoode]

I still think a unit 'tether' is arguably the cleanest solution, if you are too far away from your nearest squad mate; the unit charges without orders.

Simple and effective. People can argue for days whether they think 'Rambo' is skill or not; I don't believe using 10 lives to kill 15 bots is the height of skill... but there we are.

Agree 100%
It fits the entire game mode, it should allow for short distance scouting while keeping your units hidden behind an object or landscape and it also allows for an element of rambo play that ensues your units are still in "fair play" and can be attacked by the units your Ramboing. Surely this is the ultimate compromise

 

[56nights]

captain mode...

 

[aLiaXXXanger]

I still think a unit 'tether' is arguably the cleanest solution, if you are too far away from your nearest squad mate; the unit charges without orders.

Simple and effective. People can argue for days whether they think 'Rambo' is skill or not; I don't believe using 10 lives to kill 15 bots is the height of skill... but there we are.

Have you encountered the problem of individual units "getting stuck" in some places on different maps? Do you know about other AI problems (archers, spearmen, cavalry), the solution of which, in addition to increasing the overall level of the game, would very likely lead to inadequate choice of Rambo tactics? Do you think that the use of defensive formations to destroy the units of the attacking squad by your captain is unacceptable (this is also Rambo in your opinion, isn't it)? Do you understand the importance of reconnaissance and ambushes in Captain's mode (as in real combat)?
Have you taken these situations into account when forming a proposal to bind/auto-attack a detachment when its captain is moved away, or is your proposal still slightly spontaneous and superficial? (no offense pls)