RAMBO TACTIC, DEAR CAPTAINS, CAST UR VOTE!

What parameter of the mode should be turned to combat this tactic ?

  • Buff spears and pikes

    Votes: 6 9.5%
  • Nerf cav

    Votes: 6 9.5%
  • Make it impossible to park any unit class

    Votes: 11 17.5%
  • Make it impossible to park cav only

    Votes: 6 9.5%
  • Fix archers

    Votes: 10 15.9%
  • Something else need's to be done

    Votes: 24 38.1%

  • Total voters
    63

Users who are viewing this thread

I don't think this is why they do it. People rambo because it is an efficient use of lives, more efficient than using your troops as intended. A player can spend 1 life to rack up 10 kills whereas a single Ai troop is unlikely to ever achieve that many on it's own. 1 life for 10 kills is more efficient than 10 lives for 10 kills, and that's how people who rambo see their ai troops, as extra lives since there are unlimited respawns as long as you have units on the field that you can spawn into. So the strategy is to preserve your troops (extra lives) and go off on your own to accumulate kills while you are only risking the 1 life. It simply will not go away until the mechanic disappears entirely.
People rambo because it's more efficient, yes, but also because the factions are woefully imbalanced. Mex isn't wrong when he told you good luck trying to beat Sturgia with Aserai without effective mamuluke play. There is a difference though; not to call them out too much but I've seen VoV rambo in pub matchups plenty of times when they didn't need to, say the inverse of that matchup; they're Sturgia and the opponents are Aserai. A simple zerg rush of inf would easily defeat Aserai, especially on a map like hillfort, in a random pub match where the random pubs aren't trying to rambo or counter rambo and just take a terrible selection of already inferior troops and try to make it work. Instead of easily winning that way VoV will still rambo and just make the match take 15-20 mins longer than it should, which is dumb. From their PoV I guess it's because there is no point in playing anything else but cavalry in "competitive" captain right now until unit class limits are enforced in the next event so why bother practicing anything but cav but yeah that's where a lot of the toxicity stems from. And again not just gonna single out VoV for that because I've seen it from other teams and plenty of random pub players on the stronger faction side in a pub match, just VoV do it so frequently that I'm using them for the example.
 
My bad mate, I was going of the vote options- buff spears & nerf cav... Hadn't read the initial post in a while and no sleep lately = lazy brain :smile:

To me the interesting tactics are actually all within our reach as of right now, they are hidden behind the use of the units we see as being broken, those units you mentioned definitely need work but I don't think they are as broken as people seem to say they are. They ARE definitely broken when trying to use them while Rambo exists, but I'm my opinion cut out Rambo and the game comes back to life. Archers, skirmishes and cav are the main units centered around actual strategy in this game... It's precisely that they are underpowered compared to an infantry ball and are much harder to use that means they come with a requirement for strategy to win against a competent enemy, so to be successful you require real teamwork and co op... Instead of mostly just good timing as infantry armies require.

I know a lot of people shudder at the thought of unit restrictions in competitive play, but without meaningful TW fixes to me you kind of have to add restrictions in order to get people to stop doing the bang your head against a wall infantry ball rush we see so often with or without Rambo. If in competitive play there are unit restrictions (and if we are talking about competitive play) then those restrictions level the playing field irrelevant of a specific unit type being broken (cause we all have them on our team and it's about who can use them best). Faction imbalance is definitely another conversation... But that exists with or without Rambo so it's mostly a side point at this stage I think

Of course all the above is opinion, I prefer the game when we are playing with "unusual unit choices" by today's standards, but I totally understand why people don't like being forced into a particular play style whether that be by tethering or unit restrictions in comp play. It's just my opinion and I'm probably alone on this that it makes it more fun and more interesting to have both those options when talking about this particular mode. I'm also a firm believer that cav is a support unit who should never be expected to do the heavy lifting when it comes to kill counts
You are right about that @Spottswoode . That the matches where there are no cav around opens up the gameplay so much. To do range tactics and other stuff. But I know that it only feels that way because of the contrast between having rambo messing up the game, compared to them being gone. After a few hundred hours playtime we will all, again, start to feel frustrated with the lack of balance and viable unit classes. It was the same after they "fixed" the archer AI, after it have been dead for months. At first it was fun, but when the euphorbia of them being back have subsided after a few hundred hours of testing, you realize that they are still broken and need a fix.

I really want to persuade the community to move away from any kind of restrictions. So we can give TW a clear picture of what way we want to mode to go. Captain mode have cancer, and rambo cav is just a symptom of the disease. You want the doctor (TW) to use precious time to implement the cheapest medicine to limit the symptoms, or use the expensive medicine, that takes longer but will cure the disease and save your life? The answer to this analogy is ofc the latter option.

Imagine the situation where a rambo cav tactic is being used against you. But through a balance fix, and strong range units you would repel or even kill the damn rambo every time he comes for you. You would simply ingame punish the player for his playstyle. It wont take many games before the rambo teams will realize that the tactic is dead, but now there are other viable options with class combinations. That will naturally bring back cav as a support option, and not be the heavy lifter of kills anymore.

Captain mode is insanely hard to make 100% balanced. The nature of having to guess the enemies lineup does not help with the balance, but it is also what makes the mode so damn funny. Before the match even begins there is a chess and mindgame going on. But, I believe that we can achieve a really balanced game through a big pool of viable units and unit class combinations. Then its possible to adapt your own play vs theirs in the next round.
 

Zarthas

Knight
Is there a design reason that AI troops refuse to move as fast as a player of the same class? Kiting/Ramboing would be almost completely solved if AI would move as a fast as they are able to instead of treading water.
 
Is there a design reason that AI troops refuse to move as fast as a player of the same class? Kiting/Ramboing would be almost completely solved if AI would move as a fast as they are able to instead of treading water.
I actually don't know why the AI has to be so so slow compared to the captain. After sprinting 100 meters your AI is so far behind that the captain becomes pretty exposed at the front. The AI have always been slower than the captain, but some time after 1.5.0 it has become much worse. I guess TW implemented this to counter rush tactics. And to give the broken archers a chance. I think TW should make them only a little slower than the captain. So they never would be further away than 5 meter or so, no matter how far you have to run.
 
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Spottswoode

Veteran
You are right about that @Spottswoode . That the matches where there are no cav around opens up the gameplay so much. To do range tactics and other stuff. But I know that it only feels that way because of the contrast between having rambo messing up the game, compared to them being gone. After a few hundred hours playtime we will all, again, start to feel frustrated with the lack of balance and viable unit classes. It was the same after they "fixed" the archer AI, after it have been dead for months. At first it was fun, but when the euphorbia of them being back have subsided after a few hundred hours of testing, you realize that they are still broken and need a fix.

I really want to persuade the community to move away from any kind of restrictions. So we can give TW a clear picture of what way we want to mode to go. Captain mode have cancer, and rambo cav is just a symptom of the disease. You want the doctor (TW) to use precious time to implement the cheapest medicine to limit the symptoms, or use the expensive medicine, that takes longer but will cure the disease and save your life? The answer to this analogy is ofc the latter option.

Imagine the situation where a rambo cav tactic is being used against you. But through a balance fix, and strong range units you would repel or even kill the damn rambo every time he comes for you. You would simply ingame punish the player for his playstyle. It wont take many games before the rambo teams will realize that the tactic is dead, but now there are other viable options with class combinations. That will naturally bring back cav as a support option, and not be the heavy lifter of kills anymore.

Captain mode is insanely hard to make 100% balanced. The nature of having to guess the enemies lineup does not help with the balance, but it is also what makes the mode so damn funny. Before the match even begins there is a chess and mindgame going on. But, I believe that we can achieve a really balanced game through a big pool of viable units and unit class combinations. Then its possible to adapt your own play vs theirs in the next round.
I definitely agree 100%... Said Rambo should be a pincushion of arrows rolling up to 16 archers to attack alone.. Surely there is an accuracy modifier they have that can be tweaked... Why this isn't done is bewildering to me and is part of why I assume it will never be done. The obvious and presumably already built in modifiers to this game are not being tweaked in captain, they seem to be set on keeping ai extremely low quality in captains compared to a custom match in single player especially regarding unit speed and accuracy... I guess I've given up all hope of any modifiers to ai capability that make the ai dangerous instead of clunky... It's super frustrating.

I support your concepts 100% i had just become so over long distance parking Rambo that I want a change that deletes it with no margin for return, which is in my perspective where leashing becomes the ultimate because it picks the concept up by the scruff of the neck, kicks it out the back and locks the door on it for good :smile:

I personally am so for balance being found not through empire heavy inf = Battania heavy inf stats etc, the individual clans should have differing strengths and weaknesses.. I would be super disappointed if they balanced them as mirrors, so in that regards I do like the direction their balance goes... It's just while Rambo exists there is not a lot of room to flex the muscles of the Archer / Skirmisher heavy clans etc. Of course the current state of Kz. Being so powerful in all areas is definitely something that needs to be changed lol.. it's an unusual setup for them to keep patch after patch

Also the close flag locations on a lot of otherwise large maps also do not play particularly well into the range unit game.. but that's an old horse to beat now
 
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I definitely agree 100%... Said Rambo should be a pincushion of arrows rolling up to 16 archers to attack alone.. Surely there is an accuracy modifier they have that can be tweaked... Why this isn't done is bewildering to me and is part of why I assume it will never be done. The obvious and presumably already built in modifiers to this game are not being tweaked in captain, they seem to be set on keeping ai extremely low quality in captains compared to a custom match in single player especially regarding unit speed and accuracy... I guess I've given up all hope of any modifiers to ai capability that make the ai dangerous instead of clunky... It's super frustrating.

I support your concepts 100% i had just become so over long distance parking Rambo that I want a change that deletes it with no margin for return, which is in my perspective where leashing becomes the ultimate because it picks the concept up by the scruff of the neck, kicks it out the back and locks the door on it for good :smile:

I personally am so for balance being found not through empire heavy inf = Battania heavy inf stats etc, the individual clans should have differing strengths and weaknesses.. I would be super disappointed if they balanced them as mirrors, so in that regards I do like the direction their balance goes... It's just while Rambo exists there is not a lot of room to flex the muscles of the Archer / Skirmisher heavy clans etc. Of course the current state of Kz. Being so powerful in all areas is definitely something that needs to be changed lol.. it's an unusual setup for them to keep patch after patch

Also the close flag locations on a lot of otherwise large maps also do not play particularly well into the range unit game.. but that's an old horse to beat now
The list of my suggestions is not specific to any factions. It is more a general tactical overview. I am confident that TW could turn the parameters in such a way, so factions strengths wont be messed up. It would be really boring if classes in the different factions would be a 1-1 counter. I am against restrictions, and I also don't like the idea of nerfing any classes because they are too strong. Once menavlions was the strongest 2h class, that could beat any others factions 2h classes. And the counter to a ball of menavs was a strong shieldwall, with the help of the terrain. But, now those two things have been nerfed to hell, and it's a shame if u ask me. I also remember how a rush with a full ball of menavs could be lured into the open, with our inf ready to make a tactical retreat, while our archers would be in a L-formation. It was a great satisfaction to see the steam go out of such a rush, and feel the panic setting in when they realize they are exposed in the open and should have brought shields.

I like the kind of maps we have in cap mode. Except Hillfort. There has been a suggestion of placing the flags outside in the open. But I think they should close the fort to the outside, and give the map to the skirmish community and remove it from the cap mode map rotation. And ofc give us a new map or maps. And base the design of the new cap mode maps on Jawwali and Druimmore.

The key to open up the gameplay + make it balanced + create many different tactics and counters = super range, more viable classes. I want the option to make a mistake with my archers so they can make many many TK's hehe 🤣
 
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Horatius

Sergeant at Arms
WBNWVC
Holy damn bot fighers don't have a life and keep writing paragraph after paragraph while their arcade mode is still worse than 1,5 years ago when EA released.
 

trafon

Recruit
Why is there **** ton of threads about balancing captain mode lol. Don't captain mode players realize that you can't balance a pve mode and players will always be better than ai and find a way to exploit the ai. Captain mode isn't even supposed to be competitive or anything it's a casual mode no need to make a ton of threads about removing this and that. Idk how people can enjoy captain mode for thousands of hours tbh
 
Why is there **** ton of threads about balancing captain mode lol. Don't captain mode players realize that you can't balance a pve mode and players will always be better than ai and find a way to exploit the ai. Captain mode isn't even supposed to be competitive or anything it's a casual mode no need to make a ton of threads about removing this and that. Idk how people can enjoy captain mode for thousands of hours tbh
Did you just make a new account because I ignored your main? How pathetic can you get kiddo? Why comment on something you got no clue about? well...Ignored
 

trafon

Recruit
Did you just make a new account because I ignored your main? How pathetic can you get kiddo? Why comment on something you got no clue about? well...Ignored
Idk what you're talking about lol. Captain mode players are literally the most pathetic players in mp. You can ignore ppl as long as you want, won't change the fact that captain mode is an awful mode and you're wasting your life by playing this garbage mode and write these long paragraphs forever and none of these features won't be added. Have fun writing some nonsense thread about captain mode
 

Moth_Queen

Recruit
Why is there **** ton of threads about balancing captain mode lol. Don't captain mode players realize that you can't balance a pve mode and players will always be better than ai and find a way to exploit the ai. Captain mode isn't even supposed to be competitive or anything it's a casual mode no need to make a ton of threads about removing this and that. Idk how people can enjoy captain mode for thousands of hours tbh
Players will also find a way to exploit animations and coding flaws. Stuff like that shall be pointed out, adressed and fixed.

We enjoy it because there is no battlemode and no balanced siege. We are here for large-scale battles, not for 6V6 competitive glitchfest wank like any other trendy game out there.
 

Calabanar

Sergeant
Idk what you're talking about lol. Captain mode players are literally the most pathetic players in mp. You can ignore ppl as long as you want, won't change the fact that captain mode is an awful mode and you're wasting your life by playing this garbage mode and write these long paragraphs forever and none of these features won't be added. Have fun writing some nonsense thread about captain mode
With that kind of attitude what was your reason for making an account here?

They are least spending part of their time here in order to give constructive feedback for a game they enjoy, that’s more than could be said of you.

Flaming bad, discuss gud.
 

Spottswoode

Veteran
You are so ignorant you have an ignore list? By ignoring big **** players are you feeling more confident about your dicklet?
Lol it's funny because only super insecure little boys describe themselves like that, nicely played mate..

I look forward to your next reply that exposes even more of your short comings :wink:
 
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Just ignore that toxic little ****. He is always trying to trigger me ingame I had to perma mute him. He is so immature. Report him to TW also for his "comments"
 

Spottswoode

Veteran
Just ignore that toxic little ****. He is always trying to trigger me ingame I had to perma mute him. He is so immature. Report him to TW also for his "comments"
It's so hard to ignore trolls when they are just so bad at it though... It's kinda like a sport on this forum, just so many of them
 
It's so hard to ignore trolls when they are just so bad at it though... It's kinda like a sport on this forum, just so many of them
There are way too many players from the skirmish community that thinks they have the right to flame us cap players. It's sad really. I am glad that no one from our community acts like that when they are discussing skirmish balance.
 

Spottswoode

Veteran
There are way too many players from the skirmish community that thinks they have the right to flame us cap players. It's sad really. I am glad that no one from our community acts like that when they are discussing skirmish balance.
Your right, there is a super clear distinction between the 2, it's a good chill community amongst the captain players
 
The guys who are pouring **** on the captain mode here, what's your problem? Come on by. We are all members of this forum, captain mode is part of multiplayer, so telling someone to stop writing about their problem is rude. Also, I do not understand the reproach they say “captain mode is casual", even if we assume that this is so, what's wrong with that? And yes, it is quite possible to balance the captain mode if you do this, which has not happened for the last six months. This mode still has great potential.
 
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