Rambo-Cav in captain mode

[WakaWaka]

Here is who it will help: the developers. The developers are reading the complaints of the Captain's mode players who are phrasing and presenting their arguments in a manner that paints the game of Captain's mode as a mode that is intrinsically flawed due to the intrinsically unbalanced mechanics and parameters of the game. This is not true.

The mechanics of Captain's mode are more or less balanced aside from a few quirks of the AI. The skill differential between Captain's mode players and Skirmish mode players is what lends the false assumption that there is an imbalance with the game mechanics.

And here is the problem with the argument that I have seen parroted here many times by several different people of "this is a casual gamemode, please save us from the big mean skirmish players!".

If this is indeed a casual game mode, then why does there exist entire clans and teams which play this game mode exclusively?

If this is indeed a casual game mode, then why does there exist several tournaments which have cash prize pools which are actually greater in value than any skirmish league tournaments?

If this is indeed nothing but a casual game mode, then why does there exist among many members of your community a sense of pride in which they brag about the tournament exploits of their Captain's clan, and a type of braggadocious swagger as they describe themselves as a "competitive Captain's mode player" ?

Are these factors not the antithesis of what you would expect from a "casual" game mode?

Here is the truth of the matter. You Captain's mode players who are so eager to denigrate competitive Skirmish mode players by tossing out the cheap accusation that we have oversized ego's are truly, and ironically the ones with the massive egotistical complex. You want to call yourselves good at something, competitive players in this Captain's game mode, and you succeeded in your endeavor up until the point that you faced true skill.

Skill is not something that can be accumulated from mindless mosh-pits of inf fights, or learning how to time your swing on horseback to kill brainless AI. It's something that is garnered over months and years of grinding. When I am an archer, in an average "casual" RaT party pickup (which people play non-seriously for fun), I am facing a team of six other thinking, strategizing, human beings who are giving me #1 prioritization trying to kill me. Between them, on average, exists 6000-7000 skirmish games where they have likely outplayed tens of thousands of archers over tens of thousands of situations, these archers also being thinking, strategizing, human beings trying to kill their opponent and not die. In addition to this, a facet widespread in the actual competitive Bannerlord community, exists the fact that the six people I am facing likely have between them, on average, 10-15 thousand hours in Warband, often competitive Warband, where they faced an even higher level of competition and strategy than Bannerlord has ever offered during its existence (and probably ever will). During this period of competitive play, they killed tens of thousands, if not hundreds of thousands of archers between them, meaning they outplayed archers over hundreds of thousands of potential situations, and here I am, with a bow, and I have to avoid these six players and outplay the multitude of strategies they can bring against me with this experience, and I certainly do not have a squad of bots to save me. You Captain's mode players, in your facile complacency, expected to be able to go toe to toe with these individuals who have spent veritable years sharpening their skills off of each other, more akin and less than kind to a flintknapper, breaking off pieces of their soul, struggling through the cognitive dissonance of loss, and having the courage -- or the plain stubbornness, to face the same situations over and over again until they become less of a man and more of an edge fit to cut through any competition that faces them.

And you all have proven that you will never be as effective competitors as they are. Do you want to know why? Because you have MASSIVE egos. When a true competitive skirmish player takes a loss, they swallow their pride, admit their defeat, and then have the courage to face their vanquisher again and again until they have improved enough to claim victory. You on the other hand, as a community, have taken the coward's route, the route of women, and instead of admitting you were bested and taking a deep look at the problems you have as players, you instead blame the game and make forum threads like petulant children demanding that the game be fixed.

You don't even know what you want. There is no manner that you can patch this mode and still have it be a skill-based mode that is not entirely dependent on faction matchup and luck, that you will ever be able to best the superior competitors that will come from actual multiplayer modes. You are glorified singleplayer players and I petition that your entire game mode should be moved to the singleplayer menu, so people do not confuse it with an actual multiplayer PVP experience.

Sad!

just this

 

[pango]

Not sure if it's been written in the thread but, one possible solution may be if the captain of a warband leaves his party alone for too long, or goes far away from them they lose morale and retreat. OR they choose a new AI captain and act on their own. Either way, the player loses his party if he decides to go rambo mode.

 

[Trend]

this is the original post

there is no mention of how it's op, it's just incredibly boring for everyone but the rambo player.
a game where you counter the rambo player by standing on a flag and protecting your units is not a fun game.

+1

 

[AxiosXiphos]

Not sure if it's been written in the thread but, one possible solution may be if the captain of a warband leaves his party alone for too long, or goes far away from them they lose morale and retreat. OR they choose a new AI captain and act on their own. Either way, the player loses his party if he decides to go rambo mode.

I've often suggested a softer version of this - where if you leave a certain range for too long your units automatically charge - as the chain of command has broken down. This would also mean in the very late game where cav gets scattered - they will continue to act as they do now.

This would fix this issue pretty much immediately as letting your guys just charge will largely be less effective then using them properly.

In addition no one wants to remove the personal skill element of captains mode. A highly skilled player should still be able to leverage an advantage in personal combat - just they should do it fighting alongside their bots; not instead of them.

this is the original post

there is no mention of how it's op, it's just incredibly boring for everyone but the rambo player.
a game where you counter the rambo player by standing on a flag and protecting your units is not a fun game.

Also +1. I don't care how meta or competitive it is. All I know is playing with or against someone doing it is not fun.

 

[pango]

I've often suggested a softer version of this - where if you leave a certain range for too long your units automatically charge - as the chain of command has broken down. This would also mean in the very late game where cav gets scattered - they will continue to act as they do now.

This would fix this issue pretty much immediately as letting your guys just charge will largely be less effective then using them properly.

Yeah this one makes more sense than mine. Definitely would solve the problem

 

[Rick_Slick]

Best fix for Captain mode is to remove it entirely

 

[Thiil]

If leader is 50+ m. away, charge.
ez fix

 

[Brodacious]

I am of the mind that cav should pretty much only be able to charge/advance and follow. Want them to hold a spot (HA)? Have them follow and you stop moving while they shoot.

Will never happen as this requires changing the command system but oh well.

 

[Moth_Queen]

If leader is 50+ m. away, charge.
ez fix

Run from battlefield will be better. 1 by 1 they desert if you leave them alone.

 

[CaNpoG]

Not sure if it's been written in the thread but, one possible solution may be if the captain of a warband leaves his party alone for too long, or goes far away from them they lose morale and retreat. OR they choose a new AI captain and act on their own. Either way, the player loses his party if he decides to go rambo mode.

I actually had some possible solutions in my thread and comments in another thread about this:

Collection of solutions for rambo cav:

1. Make the captain do no damage when too far from his squad (like in Warband custom games and NW)
2. Have all captains have something along the line of 1-3 respawns. As an infantry captain, if you die in an engagement, a lot of your troops probably will too, so it won't be such a change. As archers you just have to be a bit more careful (balanced with having cav rambo less), as cav this will fix that dumb s*** called ramboing.

3. New suggestion, (might make a thread about it) unit morale: Each time the captain dies, a % of your starting troops start running away (like in SP) and desert your unit. Increasing with every time you die. I would say about 20% of starting troops running away would be a good idea. That would mean about 3 when dying as heavy infantry, 5 when talking about peasants and 2 when it's heavy cavalry like knights and cataphracts. Also makes sense for more "professional" troops to have less soldiers leaving at a time than say, peasants, but not the point though.

4. Force the bots to follow the captain when left too far behind (not desireable and would probably still not fix the problem).

I would honestly like the idea of having 2. and 3. combined.

Also my thread about "Unit morale":

https://forums.taleworlds.com/index.php?threads/captain-unit-morale-a-solution-to-make-the-mode-about-commanding-your-squad.439695/

 

[loxley86]

just add a " vote to strike down " option for dead players - if 100% of dead players vote yes strike down the last living captain - will prevent griefing but allow for meta plays

 

[Mendes]

Make something...

 

[Jesus__is__Lord]

1 life for the entire round,

im sure some people would be mad, but this way ppl can focus on command rather then rambo,

even in inf you just spam side attacks on a mob i think 1 life mode on captain should be considered