Rambo-Cav in captain mode

Is Rambo-cav gameplay a problem for captain mode ?

  • No i quite like it. It reward good skills, and i'm ready to wait the end of the fight

    Votes: 3 10.3%
  • No this is a problem, cavalery going one by one is totally stupid, and it takes forever

    Votes: 26 89.7%
  • I don't care with your silly questions

    Votes: 0 0.0%

  • Total voters
    29
  • Poll closed .

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P-tool

Recruit
I'm not use to post some negative thread, because actually i love that game and it is getting better and better over time, and i love captain mode.
BUT, one major thing is happening in Captain mode, in my opinion this is the strongest game design problem for this battle mode :

- RAMBO CAV players, wich are draaaging the games forever and ever, picking some kills and are exploiting ( because it is an exploit ) a weakness of the game design.
This is not only time consumming, but this is negative for the new players who just arrive in that game and find captain mode BORING as hell.

I'd like to read what solutions you might have think to fix this, or what is your opinion on this.

I don't say i have a solution, but i'd like to see what people can think about it

Much love
 

AxiosXiphos

Sergeant Knight
M&BWBWF&SNWVC
This remains the biggest problem in Captains mode - though I believe TW are looking into it...

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Possible solutions include...
  1. Set number of respawns. Die too many times and you can no longer respawn this round.
  2. Increase spawn time based on distance to nearest bot. If you are half the map away - add additional time onto the respawn clock.
  3. A tether range for your A.I. units. Move too far away and they automatically set to charge or follow.
  4. No damage. Move too far away from your A.I. units and your character can no longer deal damage to enemy entities.
  5. Ban offenders. Put reporting structures in place and let players report people who do this.
  6. Vote Kick. Someone wasting time? Let the players decide to vote kick.
Personally I like option 3 - but option 6 is more universally applicable. I think options 1 & 4 will interfere with the core gameplay too much and not be clear for new players. Option 2 is interesting - but might not actually fix the problem.

No doubt you are going to get someone come in here and suggest this is just part of the 'skill' of captains mode... despite the fact it was banned in Napoleonic Wars captain mode and is clearly against the intention of the game mode. If you aren't leading a detachment of troops - then you literally are not playing the game mode as designed.

Captain Mode​



Captain Mode is a game mode within the Multiplayer section of Mount&Blade II: Bannerlord. It is based off of Sergeant Mode within the Single-Player portion of Bannerlord.

Description​

Lead your own detachment of troops into battle in this team-based PvP game mode. Control the battlefield to demoralize the enemy team or annihilate their forces to emerge victorious.
  • Players: 6 vs 6.
  • Average Playtime: 20 minutes.
  • Rounds: Best of 5.
  • Round Time: 5 minutes.
  • Objectives: Kill all enemies or deplete the enemy team's moral bar or have the most moral when the round expires.
  • Troops: Select your troops wisely according to your team's needs. Troop counts are determined by troop strength.
 
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Super Jew

Veteran
WBNWVC
Set number of respawns. Die too many times and you can no longer respawn this round.
The problem with this solution is that many times when you respawn you are instantly killed before you can react.
Increase spawn time based on distance to nearest bot. If you are half the map away - add additional time onto the respawn clock.
I kinda like this idea. What do you think would be a maximum time till respawn?
A tether range for your A.I. units. Move too far away and they automatically set to charge or follow.
I find this option to be a last resort and should be used if there are no other good options.
No damage. Move too far away from your A.I. units and your character can no longer deal damage to enemy entities.
The problem here is that if you put your cavalry on charge they end up going to the other side of the map before they decide to turn around. Vote Kick. Someone wasting time? Let the players decide to vote kick.
Ban offenders. Put reporting structures in place and let players report people who do this.
Way to extreme. The report system is already not the greatest and adding this will kill the game mode.
Vote Kick. Someone wasting time? Let the players decide to vote kick.
This solution would fix bad players who are ramboing, but why would a team decide to kick a player who is good at cavalry pvp on their team? This solution would also be great for afk players especially in skirmish. The biggest problem with this solution is that in organized games this will do nothing.
 

AxiosXiphos

Sergeant Knight
M&BWBWF&SNWVC
The problem with this solution is that many times when you respawn you are instantly killed before you can react.

I kinda like this idea. What do you think would be a maximum time till respawn?

I find this option to be a last resort and should be used if there are no other good options.

The problem here is that if you put your cavalry on charge they end up going to the other side of the map before they decide to turn around. Vote Kick. Someone wasting time? Let the players decide to vote kick.

Way to extreme. The report system is already not the greatest and adding this will kill the game mode.

This solution would fix bad players who are ramboing, but why would a team decide to kick a player who is good at cavalry pvp on their team? This solution would also be great for afk players especially in skirmish. The biggest problem with this solution is that in organized games this will do nothing.
I agree. I don't like having players banned or reported for this - they are only playing the game as it stands. The mechanics should resolve the issue not the players. Just suggesting all options for discussion!

The spawn time seems like an interesting soft fix and would encourage staying in formation much more - while not changing the game for anyone playing traditionally.

Say +30 seconds at the extreme end? That would make moving away from your units too far very risky. Players will still be able to 'rambo' to an extent; but they can be punished by enemy players.
 

Spottswoode

Regular
tether range for your A.I. units. Move too far away and they automatically set to charge or follow.
This is where it's at. Doesn't mean troops are always on follow... You can park your unit, however the park will put your unit in a relatively dangerous position for a counter attack from archers or other cav or charging infantry as everyone will know where they are.

Rambos can still rambo on a leash but their units are at a much greater risk, it's not a massive ask from Rambos for this change... They still get to s their thing, it's also quite simply just how the rest of the population play the game naturally
 

WarMir

Sergeant
This became really annoying, makes the game more irritating than enjoyable.
Its not "tactical" approach of formations anymore. Cav is always parked on the other end of the map and even if you want to get the parked cav, it turns into running game...
Id rather turn off the game and put my Graphics Card back on mining.
 

[PBS] Chenk

Recruit
M&BWBWF&SNWVC
There is two solution for ramboing cav-
1.Remove the Crouch lance ability when you are not with your whole squad.you can only able to crouch lance when you are with your full squad.
2.When the rambo cav is out of radius of the squad reduce the damage output by 90%.So ramboing will not be viable option anymore.But he still can scouting and help his teammate gain the information but alone can't do much.
i personally think that increase respawn time will do anything.
 

Tiedemannj

Recruit
1.Remove the Crouch lance ability when you are not with your whole squad.you can only able to crouch lance when you are with your full squad.
This doesn't fix menav cav that is the worst offenders tho.
2.When the rambo cav is out of radius of the squad reduce the damage output by 90%.So ramboing will not be viable option anymore.But he still can scouting and help his teammate gain the information but alone can't do much.
i personally think that increase respawn time will do anything.
I'm more drawn to something like this rather than a tether. A tether kinda breaks the "captain" part of it since full command of your units is taken away you. And it would kinda make sense that units would fight better closer to their comrades.
 

[PBS] Chenk

Recruit
M&BWBWF&SNWVC
as i said when you are not in the radius of your squad your damage output will be reduced by 90% so rambo cav with menav isn't a problem . Afterall u don't want to hit the bot for 10-15 times to kill it :smile:.
 

AxiosXiphos

Sergeant Knight
M&BWBWF&SNWVC
This doesn't fix menav cav that is the worst offenders tho.

I'm more drawn to something like this rather than a tether. A tether kinda breaks the "captain" part of it since full command of your units is taken away you. And it would kinda make sense that units would fight better closer to their comrades.
I perfer the tether; though set at a reasonable distance (and with warning and maybe a timer). Enough that you can still shoot ahead to capture a point and pull back. But can't spend ages away from your troops without them attempting to follow or charging (as they literally aren't being lead).

The point is; bots should not be respawns. They are the game mode.
 

Demoulius

Regular
Rambo cav clearly isent the intention of the game mode. I dont know if id call it an exploit though. Its a feature in the game and people playing like that (as ****ty as it is) arent using an exploit.

They are really unsporting and/or obivious though. The sort of people that cant read a room :roll:

Ive seen TW post somewhere that theyre looking into it but if they cant decide on a solution ive seen people mention a sort of 'leash' where the troops following you if move to far away from them. And granted if that leash isent to short could fix it I feel until a more gracious/better solution presents itself.
 

AxiosXiphos

Sergeant Knight
M&BWBWF&SNWVC
Rambo cav clearly isent the intention of the game mode. I dont know if id call it an exploit though. Its a feature in the game and people playing like that (as ****ty as it is) arent using an exploit.

They are really unsporting and/or obivious though. The sort of people that cant read a room :roll:

Ive seen TW post somewhere that theyre looking into it but if they cant decide on a solution ive seen people mention a sort of 'leash' where the troops following you if move to far away from them. And granted if that leash isent to short could fix it I feel until a more gracious/better solution presents itself.
Using rambo is cheese.

Now at it's core - cheese is just playing the game as it is; not how we think it should be. So who can blame them...?

However given how casual the game mode is - it's kind of like being the guy who turns up to a friendly 40k game with a Warhound titan. Maybe it will let you win but either way no one is going to have fun...

And fun is what it should come down to. Not what is competitive; or what is skillful - what is fun. And someone sitting their entire army in a corner and then avoiding other players to attack their bots - just isn't fun. That alone should be enough reason to fix it.
 

Einarcf

Master Knight
M&BWBWF&SNWVC
Captain mode is meant to be competitive, everything goes. You could go the route of Skirmish and BEAST/NC/Draft Cup and put restrictions on ramboing like we did with class limits. And that introduces other problems in return.
 

OurGloriousLeader

Grandmaster Knight
In the old mod for Warband that was the equivalent of Captain mode, when you died you were able to respawn as a bot, but you lost all control over the bots and they automatically charged the enemy. So at most you could rambo cheese once and if you died you put the entire squad at risk as they would run into the enemy regardless of their set up. IIRC Captain mode you retain command, so you can use up every bot if they are kept safe, correct?
 

Einarcf

Master Knight
M&BWBWF&SNWVC
In the old mod for Warband that was the equivalent of Captain mode, when you died you were able to respawn as a bot, but you lost all control over the bots and they automatically charged the enemy. So at most you could rambo cheese once and if you died you put the entire squad at risk as they would run into the enemy regardless of their set up. IIRC Captain mode you retain command, so you can use up every bot if they are kept safe, correct?
So rambos will start sniping captains then?
 

Demoulius

Regular
Using rambo is cheese.

Now at it's core - cheese is just playing the game as it is; not how we think it should be. So who can blame them...?

However given how casual the game mode is - it's kind of like being the guy who turns up to a friendly 40k game with a Warhound titan. Maybe it will let you win but either way no one is going to have fun...

And fun is what it should come down to. Not what is competitive; or what is skillful - what is fun. And someone sitting their entire army in a corner and then avoiding other players to attack their bots - just isn't fun. That alone should be enough reason to fix it.
Oh I dont disagree. But like you said yourself its an option that some people are using thats open to them..So until TW does something about it what can we do?

I agree with your 2nd point as well. Last time I tried the game mode I took me like half an hour to complete a match because this 1 guy was ramboing even though his team was absolutelty massacred. Yeah no, it killed the game mode for me.

So I just decided to avoid the game mode until something is done about it. I enjoy skirmish as well so il just go over there. But people who are bigger fans of the game mode are defenitly getting shafted...
 

AxiosXiphos

Sergeant Knight
M&BWBWF&SNWVC
Oh I dont disagree. But like you said yourself its an option that some people are using thats open to them..So until TW does something about it what can we do?

I agree with your 2nd point as well. Last time I tried the game mode I took me like half an hour to complete a match because this 1 guy was ramboing even though his team was absolutelty massacred. Yeah no, it killed the game mode for me.

So I just decided to avoid the game mode until something is done about it. I enjoy skirmish as well so il just go over there. But people who are bigger fans of the game mode are defenitly getting shafted...
yeah - agreed on all points.
 
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