MP Raise weaponskill to fix blocking

[Firunien]

After playing duel for a while my view on the problem of blocking has changed. Input delay doesnt seem to be the culprit.
The Sergeant seems to be almost fine concerning beeing able to block fast enough, while the other classes are just too slow. I think its related to the weapon proficiency, how about you raise it for all classes ? Not beeing able to block because you character is too slow is just a bad gamedesign choice, infantry should attack faster and deal more damage on a hit, while archers and cav should still be able to block incoming attacks. I am talking about 1v1, in order to be able to manually block against multiple enemies its mandatory blocking speed is raised.
Anybody else playing on duel has the same experience ?

 

[OurGloriousLeader]

Do they even have proficiency yet? I thought it was only weapon stats.

 

[Firunien]

Well, at least it feels like it, when picking up a Sergeants one-handed sword with another class it feels slower. Gonna do some more testing today.

 

[jon01]

I've felt melee was better when playing as Vanguard, Knight and possibly Varyag. I'm guessing Vlandia is meant to be the equivalent of Swadia, and Swadian cavalry had surprisingly good melee proficiency in Warband, so maybe that was carried over into Bannerlord (i.e. Vanguard, Knight). However, I wouldn't doubt that cavalry for other factions is also better for melee than the respective infantry classes, except possibly the Varyag, which looks like the equivalent of a Nord infantry in heavy armour.

Sometimes I wonder whether at some point TW realised the melee in Bannerlord was so lackluster (even with good proficiency) that instead of trying to improve it to a comparable standard to Warband, they made the Class System to make it look like infantry is deliberately bad, and encourage people to play the other classes to do better at the game. Or maybe they just didn't expect people to care about melee so much, since the more casual audiences out there just like to see huge battles with charging cavalry?

Infantry had a tougher time than other classes in Warband, but it wasn't this bad. It was a lot more fun to play, even when I was a beginner. I'm not sure which class is meant to be the equivalent of Vaegir in Bannerlord, but I haven't felt any troop to be as good as what a Vaegir infantry felt like with an Elite Scimitar. That was my favourite class in Warband. I even chose it over Nords in Groupfighting.

 

[Caps]

vlandia all (shock, heavy, cav heavy vlandian hero, ranged) got 50 in 1h proficiency. Its just that you get used to the ****ty block. The blocking should be fixable by just speeding it up a little.

dismounted cav got different weapons that are slower, which just drags out duels

the aserai skirmisher comes close to vaegir infantry.. you just dont have armor

 

[Silen]

Don't think it's a matter of proficiency but simply the way blocking works, being slower if for example you're feinting and trying to block to the opposite side since the animation will take longer to progress to a point where it's considered a block. As Caps said proficiency in 1h seems to be largely the same in the files.

 

[Caps]

Don't think it's a matter of proficiency but simply the way blocking works, being slower if for example you're feinting and trying to block to the opposite side since the animation will take longer to progress to a point where it's considered a block. As Caps said proficiency in 1h seems to be largely the same in the files.

+1 thats why it makes it harder to block up, like i said i dont think it needs a big increase just a few miliseconds. (we know that they have other parameters to speed up blocking)

 

[jon01]

the aserai skirmisher comes close to vaegir infantry.. you just dont have armor

I tried playing Skirmisher just now (albeit on an Asian server) and it felt awful.

 

[Caps]

I tried playing Skirmisher just now (albeit on an Asian server) and it felt awful.

well its the same weapon if you go for the sword perk, and the small shield

 

[Firunien]

Don't think it's a matter of proficiency but simply the way blocking works, being slower if for example you're feinting and trying to block to the opposite side since the animation will take longer to progress to a point where it's considered a block. As Caps said proficiency in 1h seems to be largely the same in the files.

U are right about that, but the animation duration is the the product of the animation as a movement(the distance) and its speed, so turning the speed up speeds up the animation and therefor makes blocking faster. My suspicion is simply that the speed might be too low.
Best would maybe a change to the formula, so that we keep the attack animation speed at current speed whilst making the block animation faster.

Some information from a developer about the components on how the blocking animation is defined would be great.

 

[Silen]

Yeah making blocking faster is pretty much what I did in the modified parameters to indirectly address that issue, albeit NIN3 told me that it will cause problems with ping differences. Though I'd prefer if the blocking timing was just more consistent instead of being influenced by a dozen different factors that we have to clumsily minimize with workarounds.

 

[Caps]

Yeah making blocking faster is pretty much what I did in the modified parameters to indirectly address that issue, albeit NIN3 told me that it will cause problems with ping differences. Though I'd prefer if the blocking timing was just more consistent instead of being influenced by a dozen different factors that we have to clumsily minimize with workarounds.

Alot of the stuff is just too random, stuns aswell. They get influenced by so many parameters and then they just added a randomness factor as topping on top of all that. They need to get rid of that or minimize it at least.

Rearing horses aswell another random ass bs.

 

[Squirrelfart]

I think the problem is in weapon skills. I play SP a lot and using my character with currently around 100wpf in 1h lets me flickblock in all directions with ease, no matter the parameters (weapon position, animation, feinting, etc.) while I would be hard-pressed to do so in MP. I wouldn't know about using a 2h or a polearm for blocking, but the weapon I use in SP is a rather slow cavalry sword, yet I can block extremely quickly with 100 wpf, which seems to be almost twice that of the MP values.

The swing delay is also a lot less noticeable with the accelerated speed of swinging and blocking, so this could serve well as a bit of a band-aid fix before TW can bother with changing animations or frame data.

I mean, increasing the WPF won't change the twenty billion parameters that affect blocking, but blocking should be quick enough at a certain high-enough WPF that the parameters' effects upon blocking isn't as pronounced, so you can get "slightly faster block" vs "fast block" compared to the current "S L O W B L O C K" vs "fast block" we have right now.

Maybe the parameters' effects on blocking fall off as the default blocking speed (influenced by WPF) increase? I don't know. But increasing WPF for blocking, AND swinging seems to be a good idea, because combat in SP at a high-enough proficiency feels a lot more responsive than MP right now.

 

[Caps]

I think the problem is in weapon skills. I play SP a lot and using my character with currently around 100wpf in 1h lets me flickblock in all directions with ease, no matter the parameters (weapon position, animation, feinting, etc.) while I would be hard-pressed to do so in MP. I wouldn't know about using a 2h or a polearm for blocking, but the weapon I use in SP is a rather slow cavalry sword, yet I can block extremely quickly with 100 wpf, which seems to be almost twice that of the MP values.

The swing delay is also a lot less noticeable with the accelerated speed of swinging and blocking, so this could serve well as a bit of a band-aid fix before TW can bother with changing animations or frame data.

I mean, increasing the WPF won't change the twenty billion parameters that affect blocking, but blocking should be quick enough at a certain high-enough WPF that the parameters' effects upon blocking isn't as pronounced, so you can get "slightly faster block" vs "fast block" compared to the current "S L O W B L O C K" vs "fast block" we have right now.

Maybe the parameters' effects on blocking fall off as the default blocking speed (influenced by WPF) increase? I don't know. But increasing WPF for blocking, AND swinging seems to be a good idea, because combat in SP at a high-enough proficiency feels a lot more responsive than MP right now.

they can just make blocking faster? instead of breaking the whole game with increasing the wpf

 

[๖Kern]

I actually have the same experience with Vlandian sergeant. He is very fluent to play, easy to block and cancel attacks late in the animation, I also feel like the shield blocking is a bit faster than some other classes. Not sure if this is caused by the handling stats or it's just my feeling or neither of those.

 

[Firunien]

they can just make blocking faster? instead of breaking the whole game with increasing the wpf

The game is not made to be played with 50wpf, why else would the wpf scale up to 300ish. It's like driving a ferrari but you can only use first and second gear.

 

[Caps]

The game is not made to be played with 50wpf, why else would the wpf scale up to 300ish. It's like driving a ferrari but you can only use first and second gear.

wpf will affect a lot of other variables aswell, changing it at this point might break alot of things. But i agree with you idk why they went for 50 wpf, you would think they would at least take the same level as the singleplayer units (100-200)

 

[AJAJP_Juan]

wpf will affect a lot of other variables aswell, changing it at this point might break alot of things. But i agree with you idk why they went for 50 wpf, you would think they would at least take the same level as the singleplayer units (100-200)

I dont believe there is that much of a damage difference between 50 and 100 (and for one handed, which suffers the most of low damage, would be better), and there is no need to increase bows/ranged, in any case lower it.