Raiding usefulness

Should armies replenish as quickly as they do. Raiding enemy villages should be more impactful


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Halvdan

Recruit
Raiding Doesn't do much in its current iteration.

It would be nice to make it a more strategic thing to do such as raid all of an enemy Nations villages early in the war to prevent them from being able to replace troops lost in combat.

The system already seems to provide better troops when villages are prosperous.

Implementing village rating to affect an enemies ability to replace an army would be amazing.

As it is right now you could defeat an army of 1600 the release all of the Lord you capture after winning the battle and they can turn around in 5 minutes later have a new army of 1600.

It would allow you to actually beat an enemy back through attrition. If you can't take them head on initially you attack their villages one by one and start attacking smaller bands of their troops so they lose all of their high tier army units.

It would also encourage enemies to want to sue for peace rather than continue to fight an enemy Nation with nothing but villagers
 
Is your proposition the ability to order the vassals to prioritize raiding at the start of a war, am I getting it right? While it's a decent proposition, it still wouldn't solve the problem of enemies returning with an army almost immediately. Lords have other ways of getting new troops such as recruiting from towns, taking troops from garrisons and hiring mercenaries from taverns (also hiring minor factions for extra number of parties on the map). I like the suggestion, but I imagine it would bring so many problems with it as well, imagine many of your lords being occupied with raiding while an enemy army is en route to siege crucial a town or a castle. Should the raiding lords now return to defend or continue raiding? This suggestion would likely also crash the item prices in the longer terms since towns and castles themselves don't produce most commodities, and need commodities as input to produce new trade goods in workshops.

Imho, the much simpler and effective way of curbing the number of reinforcing armies and therefore decreasing the late game grind is making the recuperation period of defeated lords much longer and changing AI decision making so that they won't call lords further away than a certain distance to the lord who created the army.
 

Ananda_The_Destroyer

Grandmaster Knight
They just go to the next factions villages and get those, so yeah it's nearly pointless. What about when there is no other villages? Oh even then your vassals will keep voting to make peace and thus allow them to recruit all your troops (how are they paying for them?) until their parties are full and then they attack you again and raid the villages. Hey shouldn't they eventually not be able to recruit just from raiding so much and loosing relations..... yeah but I guess somehow they do anyways, just like they shouldn't have any money since they don't ****ing do anything that would give them money. The more you play this game the more you see how much the AI is just bandits that can siege and raid and do nothing at all in the world and don't use any of it's systems. They just spawn, are given XYZ resources and make armies/raid.
 
The more you play this game the more you see how much the AI is just bandits that can siege and raid and do nothing at all in the world
Damn, the devs inadvertently made lords realistic. If only they could add constant feasts, alcoholism and inbreeding, then the medieval lord experience would be complete :smile:

Seriously though, I agree with what you're saying. Lords simply don't do necessary things like solving quests or hunting bandits to make money.
 

froggyluv

Grandmaster Knight
NW
Now imagine they finally made a proper strategy map out of that campaign map -we wouldnt need superficial overarching plots or stories - they'd write themselves. Think about how strategy games use their maps -resources and borders matter. In this game the whole map is just one giant PacMan machine in which anyone can go anywhere they want at any time and dont act at all like they are tresspassing on others land. How about the many mods for Warband that gave you points for spending time in your villages and cities -thereby both encouraging you to hang out in your scenes and rewarding you against the grind for it. How about now not anyone can just recruit from any village thereby allowing all armies to top troop of any given faction at any time? things like this should matter in any sort of 'even kinda strategy game with sprinkles on top'
 

sh1ny4

Sergeant
What would be a nice thing would be to have two persons per clan capable of leading troops at most. Once these two are captured you won't have the cousin twice removed of the wife of the son of the clan leader entering the battlefield with a full stack of recruit. Or recruits spawning slower in villages.
 

Sweynforkbeard

Sergeant at Arms
As it is right now you could defeat an army of 1600 the release all of the Lord you capture after winning the battle and they can turn around in 5 minutes later have a new army of 1600.
They didnt get that new army from villages. They got it by emptying their garrisons.

And it doesnt really take that long to put them on the ropes if you are in a position to attack individual or small groups of lord parties.
 

pryt

Recruit
My main issue with village raiding is, that after you take a town or castle, the former owners raid their own cultures villages ... I mean: WTF?. I can understand the intention behind, like lowering the taken city's/castle's loyalty, but still, it feels very wrong to do so.
 

Bluko88

Sergeant
Raiding Doesn't do much in its current iteration.

It would be nice to make it a more strategic thing to do such as raid all of an enemy Nations villages early in the war to prevent them from being able to replace troops lost in combat.

The system already seems to provide better troops when villages are prosperous.

You're sort of right

I'd say the issue is more how quickly Villages recover. Honestly I think villages should have to be manually "rebuilt", that way you have to decide more whether you want to stay offensive or defensive. Do you keep attacking your enemy with what you got or do you go back and repair your villages so you can get recruits later? Basically until a Lord rebuilds a village, it's going to remain a burnt crater or at least it should take an extremely long time to recover on it's own (like a year).

This could be something you, the player, do during peace time too. Since there's nothing to do really besides trade and arrange marriages, if that.

Also if some small band of mercenaries does eff up your villages and you get there a little too late, it's not a total waste to show up there like it is now. So annoying to just watch your villages smoke as it were for a couple days and not do anything about it, especially since you're encouraged to recruit from your villages.

Rebuilding villages could be good way to add some much needed way of gaining XP for Medicine and Engineering too.


I do recall being in a pretty long war with the Aserai once, where I got really fed up with my fellow vassals incompetence. So instead of trading fiefs back and forth with armies, I just took my well equipped party and went about raiding just about every single Aserai village. Needless to say the war dramatically shifted in my Kingdom's favor since the Aserai really weren't able to field many units after that.

So raiding is somewhat effective thing to do in-game, especially since defeating single Parties often does more good in the long run anyways. Also really hurts foreign invaders since it creates both Loyalty/Security debuffs to Towns I believe.


My biggest gripe with raiding is how little loot you get. In Warband raiding is very profitable, so yeah it's a bit heinous, but think of all the loot! In Bannerlord raiding just makes me feel like a petty ****. There's no real benefit to the player other then a kind of middle-finger to the would be owner.

Be nice if Bandits and such raided villages, rather than simply harass travelers.


Also be neat if you could "Sack" Town/Castles, i.e. instead of taking over a Town/Castle you run off with a ton of loot/gold and leave it a smoking ruin for your enemies to rebuild. Seems really odd to devastate a Town/Castle and then take it over when everyone should hate your guts for doing so. Then you could apply my aforementioned rebuilding mechanic to them as well (again more ways to get much needed Medicine/Engineering XP) and do something besides murdering all the common folk of Calradia all the time.

Heck you could actually do a true "good guy" Saint playthrough where you just go around rebuilding all the villages ruined by war. Make future Jeremus proud.
 
The biggest overhaul I want is that while sieging a Town/Castle that the AI wont raid its attached villages. Really annoying having a doom stack on a high prosperity town only for the AI to Devastate it and have the villages burnt now. Now you have a smoking crater with 0 loyalty...

Id also like an option to toggle the AI to not raid villages of the same culture. It craters relationships and just seems silly to me.

All that aside raiding does have its intended outcome. If you have an Offensive war inclination and Aggressive parties (and a lot of them) your parties will roll over villages which also has the benefit of diverting AI armies to crush on favorable terrain.

The AI still gets 20 or so troops but theyll deplete their own garrisons, waste all their money, lose their fiefs and have to travel far afield to recruit other culture troops. If you can get that action going it helps snipe Lords for defection and pumps up the tribute. So all in all its a good system without tons of instant gratification
 

Apocal

Grandmaster Knight
It would allow you to actually beat an enemy back through attrition. If you can't take them head on initially you attack their villages one by one and start attacking smaller bands of their troops so they lose all of their high tier army units.
You can already do this as a decently-sized high-tier player party. The average kingdom at start only produces about 45-80 new troops per day (might've changed since last year but that's ballpark). If you kill a lord party every day and occasionally string together two, three, four in a row (like a recently disbanded army), you'll wear them down. If you combine it with raiding villages, you'll grind them down even faster.

Keeping their villages raided also throttles or outright tanks town prosperity, so the lords themselves go broke and it hurts loyalty so they face rebellions.
 

Halvdan

Recruit
You're sort of right

I'd say the issue is more how quickly Villages recover. Honestly I think villages should have to be manually "rebuilt", that way you have to decide more whether you want to stay offensive or defensive. Do you keep attacking your enemy with what you got or do you go back and repair your villages so you can get recruits later? Basically until a Lord rebuilds a village, it's going to remain a burnt crater or at least it should take an extremely long time to recover on it's own (like a year).

This could be something you, the player, do during peace time too. Since there's nothing to do really besides trade and arrange marriages, if that.

Also if some small band of mercenaries does eff up your villages and you get there a little too late, it's not a total waste to show up there like it is now. So annoying to just watch your villages smoke as it were for a couple days and not do anything about it, especially since you're encouraged to recruit from your villages.

Rebuilding villages could be good way to add some much needed way of gaining XP for Medicine and Engineering too.


I do recall being in a pretty long war with the Aserai once, where I got really fed up with my fellow vassals incompetence. So instead of trading fiefs back and forth with armies, I just took my well equipped party and went about raiding just about every single Aserai village. Needless to say the war dramatically shifted in my Kingdom's favor since the Aserai really weren't able to field many units after that.

So raiding is somewhat effective thing to do in-game, especially since defeating single Parties often does more good in the long run anyways. Also really hurts foreign invaders since it creates both Loyalty/Security debuffs to Towns I believe.


My biggest gripe with raiding is how little loot you get. In Warband raiding is very profitable, so yeah it's a bit heinous, but think of all the loot! In Bannerlord raiding just makes me feel like a petty ****. There's no real benefit to the player other then a kind of middle-finger to the would be owner.

Be nice if Bandits and such raided villages, rather than simply harass travelers.


Also be neat if you could "Sack" Town/Castles, i.e. instead of taking over a Town/Castle you run off with a ton of loot/gold and leave it a smoking ruin for your enemies to rebuild. Seems really odd to devastate a Town/Castle and then take it over when everyone should hate your guts for doing so. Then you could apply my aforementioned rebuilding mechanic to them as well (again more ways to get much needed Medicine/Engineering XP) and do something besides murdering all the common folk of Calradia all the time.

Heck you could actually do a true "good guy" Saint playthrough where you just go around rebuilding all the villages ruined by war. Make future Jeremus proud.
I 100% agree with you it would be nice to see the experience game in things such as engineering and medicine for repairing your own villages and healing the people wounded within. Otherwise the best way to increase your medical is to get your ass handed to you in a bunch of battles
 

five bucks

Knight at Arms
Rebuilding villages could be good way to add some much needed way of gaining XP for Medicine and Engineering too.
Fantastic idea! Would tie into a lot of mechanics well - you could have it increase the Mercy/Generosity stat as well. And would be good for roleplaying.

Medicine and Engineering need ways to gain experience in the earlygame, rebuilding villages and healing the people is a great way of doing that. If the player could also gain Mercy/Generosity at the same time it would be a good use of campaign time and worthwhile waiting on the world map for.

And Taleworlds could implement it pretty easily - just add a text menu option when you enter a burned village, and make the player gain XP and speed up the recovery rate of the village by say 2x.

What are your thoughts @Duh_TaleWorlds ?
 

Ser Jon

Knight
M&BWBWF&SNWVC
They most certainly not replenish as quickly as they should, and there should definitely be a larger penalty imposed with raiding. I'm not entirely sure how they could go about improving it, though I have seen quite a few posts from several people with suggestions that sound good.
 
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