Raiding is not viable due to massive relations penalty

[durbal]

Try to raid village. Militia defend -6 relation. Raid starts -6 relation. Allied army needs help -- break off from raid and go help. Start raid again -6 relation.

After one raid you can basically never recruit from that village again.

I'm not sure how to fix this, but it definitely needs to be fixed. The fact that you won't even be able to do quests after raiding to increase relations makes it completely unviable as a long-term strategy. Maybe a way to pay reparations after the raid to raise relations again to 0?

 

[Ironsun]

Wait, you think raiding should not have a relationship penalty? I disagree, that is why you don't raid where you eat, you raid villages of a faction you know you're not going to be allied with.
There should be a way to increase your reputation eventually be it by hunting bandits or something similar, but a rep hit should totally be a thing.

 

[durbal]

Wait, you think raiding should not have a relationship penalty? I disagree, that is why you don't raid where you eat, you raid villages of a faction you know you're not going to be allied with.
There should be a way to increase your reputation eventually be it by hunting bandits or something similar, but a rep hit should totally be a thing.

Did you even read my post? It's a whole 4 lines long.

 

[Ironsun]

Did you even read my post? It's a whole 4 lines long.

I did and all I could conclude is that you want to raid and then be able to "fix" it, which is silly.
As I said it might be possible in the future to regain the rep but it should be no easy task.

 

[durbal]

I did and all I could conclude is that you want to raid and then be able to "fix" it, which is silly.
As I said it might be possible in the future to regain the rep but it should be no easy task.

Tell me what's more silly: being able to raid and then somehow raise relations again so you're not permanently locked out of recruiting from that village, or raiding basically being an AI-only feature that the player can't use as an actual viable strategy?

 

[Ironsun]

Tell me what's more silly: being able to raid and then somehow raise relations again so you're not permanently locked out of recruiting from that village, or raiding basically being an AI-only feature that the player can't use as an actual viable strategy?

Ok putting it that way I see your point and it makes sense.
Counterpoint though, would it be more acceptable if the AI also couldn't recruit in the villages it had previously raided and ruined its rep there?

 

[durbal]

Ok putting it that way I see your point and it makes sense.
Counterpoint though, would it be more acceptable if the AI also couldn't recruit in the villages it had previously raided and ruined its rep there?

If the AI had a way to raise relations, then yeah, by all means. But really the problem is that after one raid you're basically never going to be able to recruit from that village again if you didn't already do quests for every notable since your relation will dip too low to be able to raise it again. Also, raiding should incur a scaled relations penalty: -1 relation every half day of raiding (to eliminate the flat -6 at the beginning of a raid and change it to a scaling modifier instead).

 

[Mr.Kebab]

You dont have to become buddy with every lord in the game why even this disturb you. Just choose 3-4 villeges near your border and keep only raiding them. You lose nothing if you piss two lord off and make enemy of them

 

[federally]

I think the relations penalties should stay.

Raiding should be less common in general.

It should be a strategy reserved for trying to hurt your opponent by raiding villages you never intend to own anyway.

Though this would require some more complex systems that turned war to be a bit less conquest focused.

 

[crashtp]

Try to raid village. Militia defend -6 relation. Raid starts -6 relation. Allied army needs help -- break off from raid and go help. Start raid again -6 relation.

After one raid you can basically never recruit from that village again.

I'm not sure how to fix this, but it definitely needs to be fixed. The fact that you won't even be able to do quests after raiding to increase relations makes it completely unviable as a long-term strategy. Maybe a way to pay reparations after the raid to raise relations again to 0?

Thats just stupid. Of course it should destroy the relations to everything that is connected to that village, just because u pillage the village.
And there are ways to get your reputation back, it just takes some time. So thats not permanent!
For example having a high security in the city connected to the village will let the reputations slowly rise.

 

[SmattlePattle]

You really don't need to be able to recruit from every village in the game or befriend everyone in the game. I don't want imperial troops, ever. I raid imperial villages. I mean the game map is so big that you can have effective recruiting circuits in only half the map or less.

You can slowly improve relations if one really desires, but I'm not sure I agree it should be easier. Raiding as a playstyle, I think, is supposed to make elements of the world hate your guts.

 

[durbal]

Thats just stupid. Of course it should destroy the relations to everything that is connected to that village, just because u pillage the village.
And there are ways to get your reputation back, it just takes some time. So thats not permanent!
For example having a high security in the city connected to the village will let the reputations slowly rise.

My issue is that there's an effective lockout because at low relations you can't do quests anymore. I'm aware of the security thing, but that only works if you're the holder of that fief (and realistically, if you're gunning to own a particular fief you probably shouldn't raid the villages anyway). There needs to be another game mechanism for raising relations once they tank past the -10 threshold (or whatever it is) that disallows quests.

You really don't need to be able to recruit from every village in the game or befriend everyone in the game. I don't want imperial troops, ever. I raid imperial villages. I mean the game map is so big that you can have effective recruiting circuits in only half the map or less.

You can slowly improve relations if one really desires, but I'm not sure I agree it should be easier. Raiding as a playstyle, I think, is supposed to make elements of the world hate your guts.

Everyone? Of course not. But the problem is that raiding really isn't viable since the penalties are so severe. Raiding a village here or there isn't enough to raise Roguery skill or get any real economic benefit (or do significant economic damage to the enemy for that matter), but raiding frequently will basically lock you out of recruitment and quests from large swathes of the game map. And it's totally binary -- either you decide to raid a village and just raid it endlessly (because the different between -15 and -100 relations doesn't matter) or you simply can't raid it at all.

 

[avenger1024]

My issue is that there's an effective lockout because at low relations you can't do quests anymore. I'm aware of the security thing, but that only works if you're the holder of that fief (and realistically, if you're gunning to own a particular fief you probably shouldn't raid the villages anyway). There needs to be another game mechanism for raising relations once they tank past the -10 threshold (or whatever it is) that disallows quests.



Everyone? Of course not. But the problem is that raiding really isn't viable since the penalties are so severe. Raiding a village here or there isn't enough to raise Roguery skill or get any real economic benefit (or do significant economic damage to the enemy for that matter), but raiding frequently will basically lock you out of recruitment and quests from large swathes of the game map. And it's totally binary -- either you decide to raid a village and just raid it endlessly (because the different between -15 and -100 relations doesn't matter) or you simply can't raid it at all.

It's almost like there's consequences for a player's choices.... Who would have thought?

 

[The Great Grub]

Raiding is useless and unlike warband doesn't provide much in terms of profit most of the stuff you get from raiding is food

 

[Narg]

I pretty much never raid, not worth it (as others has said above). But! If you take over the fief with the raided village and keep it safe from bandits/other raiders, the passive relation-boost will let you recruit again (might take a while but duh, you raided them in the first place). Time-consuming but not impossible.
The angst of wronged villagers..

 

[Rogan de Auria]

Try to raid village. Militia defend -6 relation. Raid starts -6 relation. Allied army needs help -- break off from raid and go help. Start raid again -6 relation.

After one raid you can basically never recruit from that village again.

I'm not sure how to fix this, but it definitely needs to be fixed. The fact that you won't even be able to do quests after raiding to increase relations makes it completely unviable as a long-term strategy. Maybe a way to pay reparations after the raid to raise relations again to 0?

Respectfully disagree, you can go as far as raid the whole world except some selected settlements (the ones with the same culture for example), and still be viable as a long-term gameplay. Only one kingdom has more than enough settlements to do a complete circuit of quests and/or recruiting that never ends, even more, I would even say its advisable to only do village quests in a restricted zone.

Raiding is useless and unlike warband doesn't provide much in terms of profit most of the stuff you get from raiding is food

It's not useless, it's just it has a different use. In warband it was a way to rapiddly increase your wealth, but in Bannerlord is more of a war tool: If you wanna soften some castle or town you raid its villages -> create a food shortage -> number of defenders drop -> attack

 

[derfuchs13]

I hardly used it, but if you have low relations, cant you go and use the "force the notables to give you troops" option?

Raiding a village effectively removes one point from where your oponent can recruit, so it can be viable as a tactic.

 

[OMGtechy]

My personal motivations for raiding are:

• Roleplay.
• Profit (really depends on where and where you raid, you're not going to be making much money from a grain farm that was raided not that long ago).
• Economic warfare.
• Cutting off food supplies in preparation for a siege.

I don't find the penalty to be too high, especially since I tend to raid the same area after quite a delay if I'm looking to make a profit. It makes a lot of sense them hating you for it (if anything, I think it should be higher).

However, I can see why it might be nice to be able to do more about it. Here's some ideas:

• Allowing some, but not all, kinds of quests. They might hate you too much for Family Feud, but perhaps if they're short of food, they'd happily pay you for some and be ... somewhat grateful (so long as it's not because you recently took all their food).
• Very slow decay over time. They might not hate your heir quite as much as you.
• Companions. They might be willing to trust your companion if they have a good rep. This could bring things up slowly by proxy, until they trust your clan enough to give you a second chance.
• Apologies, donations and "charity" quests. If you turn up saying it was nothing personal and offer to make amends, such as by giving them more than you took for free and protecting them from nearby bandits they are having trouble with for nothing, they might forgive a little. Basically, quests, but with no reward beyond relations because of your past behaviour. Eventually they might be willing to start giving you more tangible rewards.

Thoughts?

 

[durbal]

It's almost like there's consequences for a player's choices.... Who would have thought?

It's a non-choice because of the consequences. I wish it were a choice, but it's not. Raiding provides no real benefit and only pretty severe drawbacks, especially if you're unlanded.

The only thing that needs to change is have a way to raise relations after they get down to -10+. This is a problem throughout the game actually, but with village notables there are no reliable methods to improve relations besides quests.

 

[derfuchs13]

Well, i just tried the "force the notables to give you recruits".... It started a war with the empire and gave me -20 with all the clans of the empire faction. Yeah, it feels a bit exesive.

Losing relation with the village, makes sense, with the owner of the village, makes sense, but with all the clans? Sounds exesive