Racism, Homophobia and anti semitism 59th Jailbreak server

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Akiba356

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so basically i started playing on this server.  was shocked at the amount of racism anti semitism. just go and play yourself the admins constantly say offensive things over chat. there is swastikas on the maps and they 'jew' you if you kill them in game
https://imgur.com/a/0nU0ftA
 

Ra'Jiska

Subforum Moderator
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Welcome to the internet. I'm pretty sure people who do not tolerate this kind of behavior would simply stop playing on this server.
 

Sir_Yukii

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As a Player on the server, Do you understand something called Satire? Another thing, You probably got Jew'd because you broke a rule that is punishable by getting jew'd." Duh.
Besides that are just a pair admins and that is not constantly that is Mount and blade & blade Neapolic wars for you.
 

Dimboi

Banned
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Hello, I am a high ranking admin of this server and have been helping it grow for about 2 years now,so such I hope I can clear some things out.

First of all, racist /homophobic etc remarks have been allowed in the server since 2016,where it was decided that allowing free speech meant also allowing all opinions and statements to be made. Anything less than that would mean censorship. Of course we still punish players who spam those remarks in a way that disrupts the gameplay.

I know from experience that most of the NW community thinks like a toddler, if you tell it to not do something, it certainly will, just to defy you. Likewise, servers like Minisiege who ban the use of offensive words have been the subject of numerous raids and trolls.

As for the jew mechanic, it's only a way to punish players without directly banning them by giving them debuffs or disallowing their use of chat. It's only given in response to severe rule breaking, not because some admins just abuse for the sake of it.

Nevertheless, I am not sure why you are posting this here as NW is largely managed by the FSE. If you want your complaint to be taken seriously you can post it on our own website at 59th.phy. sx
 

65pirate

Recruit
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Dimboi said:
Hello, I am a high ranking admin of this server and have been helping it grow for about 2 years now,so such I hope I can clear some things out.

First of all, racist /homophobic etc remarks have been allowed in the server since 2016,where it was decided that allowing free speech meant also allowing all opinions and statements to be made. Anything less than that would mean censorship. Of course we still punish players who spam those remarks in a way that disrupts the gameplay.

I know from experience that most of the NW community thinks like a toddler, if you tell it to not do something, it certainly will, just to defy you. Likewise, servers like Minisiege who ban the use of offensive words have been the subject of numerous raids and trolls.

As for the jew mechanic, it's only a way to punish players without directly banning them by giving them debuffs or disallowing their use of chat. It's only given in response to severe rule breaking, not because some admins just abuse for the sake of it.

Nevertheless, I am not sure why you are posting this here as NW is largely managed by the FSE. If you want your complaint to be taken seriously you can post it on our own website at 59th.phy. sx
Mate dont ****ing lie. I was there for one of your matches, and the head admin decided to do something called "N***** storage", and he kept saying how he like his N****** 'well done' and **** like this. You can be for free speech all you want, but when you're doing **** like this, its taking it too far, at least for a public server.
 

Ra'Jiska

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65pirate said:
Mate dont ****ing lie. I was there for one of your matches, and the head admin decided to do something called "N***** storage", and he kept saying how he like his N****** 'well done' and **** like this. You can be for free speech all you want, but when you're doing **** like this, its taking it too far, at least for a public server.
I am personnally fully for freedom of speech and I do believe that anything can be said, there is no middle ground.
Of course I do not condone such behavior, I am however fine with people freely expressing their mind. The server being open to public remains privately owned, the owners (and their administrative extents) are allowed to do whatever they like.

If you are easily offended, there is no need to take on a crusade against such people / servers, simply move on and don't come back on the offending server.
 

Duh

Duke
M&BWB
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Sir_Yukii said:
As a Player on the server, Do you understand something called Satire? Another thing, You probably got Jew'd because you broke a rule that is punishable by getting jew'd." Duh.
Besides that are just a pair admins and that is not constantly that is Mount and blade & blade Neapolic wars for you.
This is not acceptable language. Have a look at the forum rules: https://forums.taleworlds.com/index.php/topic,12250.0.html

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The TaleWorlds Forum does not grant any of its users "Free Speech". We are relatively tolerant in the ways folks may communicate, but if you break the rules set down by us, you will receive appropriate moderation action - up until permanent removal. Similarly, we take reports regarding asset theft, illegal, racist, sexist, homophobic and similar behavior on other platforms related to TaleWorlds or its products (this includes the master server) seriously and are currently reviewing how to best proceed with the server in question.

For reference, the general matter of server no-goes was somewhat discussed here:
Callum_TaleWorlds said:
Private Server Monetisation

Private servers are the lifeblood of Mount & Blade multiplayer. Server owners offer a service to the community which brings players together and allows them to enjoy the game in a way in which we as a company are simply unable to. Community events, tournaments, new game modes and custom maps are just some of the ways in which people benefit from the generosity, dedication and hard work of these valued community members, and without them, the multiplayer side of the game would be a lesser experience.

This service often comes at a considerable cost to server owners and administrators. Not just in terms of the time and effort required to provide a quality service, but also with the monetary investment required to maintain a server. We recognise that it is important that server owners are able to raise funds to help with the general costs associated with running a service, however, recently we have noticed that some servers have started to move away from the traditional method of raising funds through donations towards a payment-based method which offers players in-game rewards in exchange for money.

We certainly appreciate the great contribution that server owners make and we believe that it is fair for them to ask for help with upkeep costs, however, we also strongly feel that the game should be enjoyed by all of our players in a fair and inclusive environment, and without them being subjected to any additional costs.

We think that it is time that we set some guidelines for server owners to be clear as to what we consider to be acceptable ways for them to raise funds to maintain their service, in a way which is fair to both server owners and players.


Server Owners

You are allowed to:
• Accept donations
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• Offer reserved slots for donators
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• Offer in-game custom titles as a reward

You are not allowed to:
• Restrict access to gameplay features
• Sell any form of in-game content, cosmetic or otherwise (items, perks, skins etc.) via payment or donation rewards
• Sell in-game currency for money (or any other means that facilitate the buying of in-game content through real spending)


Server Hosts

You are allowed to:
• Lease servers which include script-sets (such as administration tools) or modules, custom maps and other modifications, providing that your prices are consistent across servers (with and without game related content) and you have the explicit permission of the content creator to use their creation.

You are not allowed to:
• Lease servers which contain the intellectual property of another person or company without their explicit permission
• Act as a server owner for pay-to-access servers


Permissions

The only accepted methods to prove you have permission to use any assets (mods, maps, game modes, scripts, models, textures, or any other additional content) or intellectual property are:
• Letter (physical or scanned)
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• A post or a reported personal message on our official forums

Letters, emails, forum posts or reported personal messages should be from the owner(s) of any assets or intellectual property and they should clearly state that you have their permission to use their creation. Screenshots are not an acceptable form of proof. 


Given the complexity of the matter and with this being a new policy, we reserve the right to make any amendments or changes to these rules at any time. Furthermore, we reserve the right to take action against any server which we feel goes against the spirit of the community by attempting to bypass this policy in any way, poor sportsmanship in competition or racist/sexist/etc conduct.

We intend to give server owners and hosts a grace period of one month to bring their servers in line with this new policy, however, after that period is over we will add any server that breaches these terms to our blacklist. (09/06/1:cool:

If you have any enquiries regarding this policy or you would like to report a server which is in breach of these terms then please contact us at: [email protected]



 

Ra'Jiska

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Thank you Duh for clarifying the situation.

Concerning what I said before, it was only the reflection of my own opinion on the matter, I actually was not aware of the full ruleset extended to servers covering "community spirit" part. I've had a conversation today with Callum regarding the degree of leniency to have on borderline posts (which is none), I'll surely be more watchful in the future.

My apologies if some were confused by my comments on the subject.

 

Dimboi

Banned
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So, I guess I need to respond to the posts above.

You say that you can take action against anyone who behaves in a racist conduct. Well this isn’t really something we have to worry about because our server does not support or condone racist behavior. We simply don’t punish people who behave in such a manner and while you may think tolerating racism means supporting it let me ask you a question; does Ra’Jiska who openly admitted he doesn’t mind racist behavior be banned as well? He too is tolerating racism and so are hundreds of other servers. The NW community even has a SS regiment with its very own server. Are you willing to take the word of 2 people as justification to purge all servers who don’t outright ban racism? Are you going to sanction us for not doing ‘’enough’’?

I also want to clarify that 99% of the ‘’racist’’ stuff admins say are indeed all sarcastic. No one in the admin team unironically advocates for the purging of all jews or any similar views. The ‘’JEW’’ rank for example is meant to poke fun at the players we punish, given that the vast majority of them are edgy 14-year olds who like to spam racist remarks, by making themselves called the thing they hate the most. Indeed, we had and continue to have admins from all cultural backgrounds; we have Jews, Arabs, African Americans and even Muslims who don’t take any of the racist stuff in chat seriously. It’s server policy that if you don’t like the climate of the server, don’t play on it.

Finally, our HA, who was mentioned above is black himself and would never say what 65pirate claims he did. Unless you bring some evidence, I find it very hard to believe it.
In any case, you must talk with the 59th Regiment’s leader, Kaide who approved of this policy in early 2016. I hope the TW staff actually responds to this and doesn’t simply reach a verdict without getting a 2nd opinion.
 

EmielRegis

Sergeant Knight at Arms
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Jew rank is a moderation feature, not a discrimination mean...
Server has strict rules regarding its "RP" mechanics (for example restrictions made to killing others). Every player is informed about this fact on server join, by clearly visible messages. Sadly many new visitors completly ignore infos, and go into murdering rampage. Now, before introducing Jew rank, they would simply met with considerably long ban. This would be also case for chat spammers, extremly toxic players or various trolls (TNT triggering etc.).

Jew rank allows those players still play on server, while hindering their toxicity/trolling/rule breaking  capabilities. Those limitations include  chat cooldown, inablility to use TNT, and so forth.  It allows player to reedem themself by behaving properly as Jew, and speed up unbanning process.   


                                   
So as you see, our friend Akiba356 is just common rule breaker, that got mad by his punishment, and wanted petty revenge.
 

Ra'Jiska

Subforum Moderator
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Dimboi said:
does Ra’Jiska who openly admitted he doesn’t mind racist behavior be banned as well? He too is tolerating racism and so are hundreds of other servers.
As I said earlier, I believe in free speeh and believe anything can be said. However, as I also said earlier, I do not approve any behavior related to racism.

Servers being dependent of TaleWorlds main server, you will need to follow the rules that you are being asked to follow.

Furthermore, please note that the opinion which I expressed earlier does not reflect TaleWorlds', and is not relevent regarding the way you are expected to manage your server.
 

Dimboi

Banned
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Ra'Jiska said:
Dimboi said:
does Ra’Jiska who openly admitted he doesn’t mind racist behavior be banned as well? He too is tolerating racism and so are hundreds of other servers.
As I said earlier, I believe in free speeh and believe anything can be said. However, as I also said earlier, I do not approve any behavior related to racism.

Servers being dependent of TaleWorlds main server, you will need to follow the rules that you are being asked to follow.

Furthermore, please note that the opinion which I expressed earlier does not reflect TaleWorlds', and is not relevent regarding the way you are expected to manage your server.
That was my point. You are ok with people saying what they think, but you don't necessarily approve of it. This is what our server policy is meant to reflect, so if we get punished, everyone with the same view, including you, a moderator, should too, which of course is absurd.

Based on this we are not racists ourselves and neither is our policy so theres no reason for you to take any action against us.
 

Emil

Squire
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Yet again censorship from TaleWorlds. [Racism Snipped]
If that's preferred situation for OP, very well. That will surely promote more freedom of speech. It seems like the fetish involving killing an already dying game isn't uncommon.

Private owned servers should be their own entities as they are not official, but it does not mean they should condone racism or sexism, only that they should not be responsible for what other people do. If you want to get a fair punishment system in place; Develop it. Create a VAC system or start to hand out game bans. Then you might realize the responsibility and how vague of a thing you're asking from server owners. A joke? Serious? Worth a ban? Does it matter?

That has been my standpoint ever since I started playing multiplayer games. The servers should not be ruled by the forum staff or forum rules which might not be appropriate guidelines to the server management, or to the server settings. There's this thing called choice; You can choose which server to play on, both community-wise and gameplay-wise, and there's this other thing called meritocracy; People who do not know what occurs behind the scenes should not rule the scenes. Experts and experienced people should.

I have yet to come by a server actively promoting racism and sexism. I've found a lot more racist players playing Mount & Blade: Warband than in other games (even higher level than racism in CS:GO) and it's not because the servers allow it. It has been the natural status of the game ever since release, whether if certain social, political and ethnic groups are more inclined to buy the game, or if the historical setting (Napoleonic Wars DLC) make the game interesting to nationalists in general. We had a discussion about the phenomena early 2016 when the NW DLC still was very popular and several servers were full 24/7. The amount of bad stuff in chat made anyone realize if servers started censoring (banning) players, there would be no players left. Players came online to play, but also to be satirical or troll. Players were revolting in various ways in-game, but also swapped to more liberal servers whenever a server started to reinforce chat rules.

I've seen a downfall of the nationalistic era though, but it was caused by a general lack of interest in the game any longer. It's a very old game after all. There has not been a lot going on aside from some internal issues since then. What's left on the servers are pretty much a fellowship or a brotherhood. Everyone knows everyone, and it doesn't matter whether you are homosexual, female, communist or disabled. Everyone are contained in the same chat and has to stand each other. Sure, jokes occur. I am gay, pretty much everyone knows that. If someone says ''It's ewoks fault the servers are dead because he's gay'' it's not a big deal, it's a joke and no-one should be hurt over it or get banned for it. That's censorship and punishing someone create hate more than acceptance.

Sure, the payment rules set up earlier this year was probably not solely set up and promoted by the forum users and forum staff, but I can not imagine TaleWorlds bothering to care if it hadn't become a big deal among users here.
Meanwhile you got the real player base playing the game and being in-game, whom all voices were ignored simply because they aren't interested in rotting away on some forums.
The Google forms I made earlier this year proved resourceful and would've probably led to a more fair decision rather than the guy screaming highest get to give all the input while everyone else gets ignored. This way of decision-making should be pretty much standard whenever the company or community want to change or clarify something, including discussing it with server owners. (The issue with low information voters)

If you wish to report something, go to your local police station (or to the servers website and write a formal complaint).
 

Duh

Duke
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Just to clarify, the forum staff does not make any decisions on these matters. That is handled by TaleWorlds. Our responsibility is that of a messenger - informing TaleWorlds of matters that come up and informing the community of measures to be taken.
 

Mein

Recruit
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I'm Not sure why this one person has brought up about 59th jailbreak being so called Racist and Homophobic, maybe he got banned maybe he just hates the server and wants the attention. but as a long time player I just want to say a couple of things.

The server and the people that run it are not racists people at all. They allow this because they are allowing people to have freedom of speech which seems to be a bit hard around mount & blade. also most of Napoleonic server do also let you have freedom of speech and yes there are some server that enforce the racism and ant Semitism which would possible be a good idea for you to join if you can not handle what is being said on server like Jailbreak.

I don't see how some edgy kids / teens are affecting the way you play on the server and the way the server is ran, you can't straight out point at the people who run the server that they are all racists and homophobic. That's just silly and stupid. Napoleonic wars also has a function called mute which never guess it mutes people you don't want to listen to or here from which I advise you do.

I'm not sure what made you come to think that the server it's self is racists and homophobic just because some edgy people want to express themselves.

Your also new to Jailbreak and I'm not sure that you quite understand what the server is about and what they do inside the server, Rather than bashing it why don't you just play it for a little more and start to understand it.
 

Emil

Squire
M&BWBWF&SNWVC
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Mein said:
I'm Not sure why this one person has brought up about 59th jailbreak being so called Racist and Homophobic, maybe he got banned maybe he just hates the server and wants the attention. but as a long time player I just want to say a couple of things.

The server and the people that run it are not racists people at all. They allow this because they are allowing people to have freedom of speech which seems to be a bit hard around mount & blade. also most of Napoleonic server do also let you have freedom of speech and yes there are some server that enforce the racism and ant Semitism which would possible be a good idea for you to join if you can not handle what is being said on server like Jailbreak.

I don't see how some edgy kids / teens are affecting the way you play on the server and the way the server is ran, you can't straight out point at the people who run the server that they are all racists and homophobic. That's just silly and stupid. Napoleonic wars also has a function called mute which never guess it mutes people you don't want to listen to or here from which I advise you do.

I'm not sure what made you come to think that the server it's self is racists and homophobic just because some edgy people want to express themselves.

Your also new to Jailbreak and I'm not sure that you quite understand what the server is about and what they do inside the server, Rather than bashing it why don't you just play it for a little more and start to understand it.
This. I've not heard of any server management actively, or even indirectly promoting ignorance. Every complaint get a fair treatment and as of lately servers has become more strict if anything with servers stating that players can be punished should they behave toxic.

I've seen Auschwitz RP and an Auschwitz map in the TTT mod for Garry's Mod, a game owned by Valve and they have unlimited access to VAC and ban mechanisms. Do they use it against them? No.
I've played WWII mods to ARMA and seen swastikas in a numerous amount of games, both satirical and fictional games such as Wolfenstein. Do they not deserve to exist simply because they show a ugly side?
If we start to ban people for using Hitler/nazi skins in various games we might as well ban the Napoleonic factions since Europe was very nationalistic during the war, which, as earlier told, also attract certain kind of players. If the in-game models, representing the oppressive forces of totalitarian states are allowed in-game, then it would be quite contrary to not allow such speech. (Yet again, I don't think we should promote such language, but server owners can't be responsible for what random players say) We can even go as far as comparing this to the Charlottesville rallies. Do the removal of a statue change anything? The extreme ideas and voices remain. The removal of the statue rather led to more extreme ideas and voices being heard.

That was the conclusion of the server punishment discussion back in 2016 while I still was an active part of a popular NW server. Players challenged the punishments, more players who didn't earlier participate would rise up and also behave ill. They would also obstruct the gameplay itself and try to take down the server with usage of DDoS as revenge.

The truth is that Mount & Blade: Warband depends heavily upon the chat while waiting 5 - 30 minutes in between respawn, thus players find various topics to discuss.
Naturally, discussing the Napoleonic era is common in the Napoleonic Wars DLC. Nationalism was thriving in Europe during that era. So for the third time, should there come as a surprise if the community has a lot of simple-minded players within it, yet also jokes and satyr?

OT: I got access to the picture finally since imgur isn't overloaded anymore. Jewed is a derogatory term and probably a bit immature to use instead of banned. It's however not entirely out of place. The synonym are ''screwed over'' or ''cheated'' (Urban Dictionary, 2005) The purpose is clear, rule breakers get banned. It's generally unpleasant to get banned, so let's not allow bans anymore. I once threw a gas grenade onto a pile of enemies in Battlefield 1 and the kill feed said they all got gassed. I guess DICE is racist? (Correction, judaism isn't a race but a religion) Anyway, it's obviously a joke, and it's not a worst case scenario as my own example was.

You can probably go onto their servers forums to discuss what the string should say if you feel discriminated.
Meanwhile, there's a mute button for a reason, and yet again, the servers got their complaint sections should someone make your stay unpleasant.
 

Scrooblord

Recruit
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Not to come off as rude, but since when in the history of literally ever has Taleworlds intervened in community affairs such as servers? I take that back, I do recall when they did. Or at least when they tried. Remember that ultimatum you gave back in May threatening servers and host alike with arbitrary and poorly thought out rules? You gave them a date and everything to change or be blacklisted.

Now here we all are well past that date. The thread is dead and as far as anyone can tell nothing has changed. As it turns out giving a date and an ultimatum on the forums where very few server host/owners visit regularly is not enough to actively enforce a policy. As it turns out enforcing that policy would take effort, something that Taleworlds has demonstrated they are not big on.

So the whole server policy showed us your big on flashing rules and regulations, but can't be arsed to actually do something about them. Hiring community moderators to actively patrol your communities to catch them being racist or violating the new donation policies is time consuming, expensive, and you get nothing out of it. Like others stated, passively waiting for reports and tattles to tell you when rules are broken is inconsistent and can result in servers getting away with "violations" for years (Such as the case of Jailbreak, doing edgy **** for years now).
Your threats and promises basically mean nothing now to anyone who has been paying attention to the latest fiascos and bannerlord's release date being moved every year.
 

Scandypandy

Recruit
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If you guys think 59th Jailbreak is the bastion of bigotry and hatred you make it out to be, you are confusing a bunch of edgy teens in a fairly tight-knit community for a bunch of extremists attempting to use the game as a platform for hate.

I used to play on the server quite regularly and still pop in from time to time. In terms of bad language or bigotry, the general rule was usually "just don't be an idiot" i.e no spamming it, no constant bullying of people and no admins being overly stupid about it.
The fact is that the NW community-as well as the Warband community as a whole-is chock full of people who aren't really phased by high brow "banter" of this sort, and to deny this is utter delusion.
Does this mean that these people and their often pretty politically incorrect opinions much be eradicated, educated or silenced?

No, it means that context needs to be applied.

I am on quite good terms with many of the staff of the server, with them being a sister-server to one I used to run (Napoleonic Roleplay Server/NRP) which was full of similar sorts of humour. I considered many times contacting them or chatting to them about the constant use of slurs and racist stuff in admin chat/the use of it as a title for a game mode and the like. A line is to be drawn between light hearted joshing (such as a game mode based on crushing a peasant revolt which could be seen as "massacring civilians" through use of ratios and partisan troops) and needless mockery of sensitive topics (such as X lynching RP.)

I never brought it up in the end as I wasn't active enough to feel justified in challenging a community that is of a decent cohesion and who generally all agree with how things are run. Realistically, the people such as OP-those who are offended enough by the content on the server to report it or attempt to forcefully have it changed-are EXTREMELY few and far between.

I think people are escalating this into a war of ideas and politics when in reality it's just realistically a large group of people in a great community who got a bit too edgy and let it get to the heart of the community itself.

The Jailbreak community has for years now managed to stay populated and popular (with game-modes designed for around 15-60 people and that population still easily being achieved) despite the struggling public scene of NW; the public scene of NW is arguably kept alive by a total of about 3 servers who tirelessly work to maintain accessible communities for new players to enjoy before they go on to join the dedicated private/regimental sphere of NW.

I think this thread serves as the slap on the wrist-or rather the tap on the shoulder-for those involved who will naturally come out of the "edgy for the sake of being edgy" attitude and the community will go on as usual. As for OP, I think he is acting a little up his own bottom for lack of better words, with a holier than thou attitude.
The community is great, the server is a blast and the staff have worked hard for a long time to keep it going.

All that being said if Taleworlds are the ones being put in charge of dealing with this, I suppose we can expect a response from them by about 2030 :^)
Perhaps instead of all the sensationalist stuff here we ought to all sit down, have a glass of juice, and let the respective leaders of both the TW side and the Jailbreak server sort it instead of letting the mob have her way with yet another dedicated community fallen victim to self-assured moral superiority.
 

Callum

Community Manager
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Thank you for reporting the server and bringing this to our attention. After conducting an investigation we have decided to blacklist the server for being in breach of our private server policy.
 
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