Questions on Agility focused characters

[Nimbostratus]

I've been toying with the idea of playing an agility-focused character, but I tend to get sidetracked to another build before I can see it really start to shine. So I have a few questions.


1. What encumbrance limit should I try to maintain? (in other words "if you go over this, you might as well go back to the plate-armored tank setup")

2. Are there weapons that work better or worse as an AGI focused character?

3. Are there any specific strategies that shine with an AGI character?

 

[Average]

well Agility, if you mean skills and character, he will swing fast, and of course, run fast. Great advatages. And you get 5 points on attributes, so get some more speed and damage with what ever weapons. You will get more benefit out of swords, so i guess and melee weapon is better on a agi focuses character.
As for the encumbrance limit, i always try to stay within range of the others, i guess a maximimum range of 5?

 

[bakters]

First of all, AGI builds are quite weak in my opinion.  Sure, they can take on a group in melee, but sooner or later you make a mistake or take a bolt to the face, the group catches up and you die.  So if you ask at which point Plate Armor becomes better, I'd say that at any point.  Heavy armor and quick weapon setup is hard to beat in melee against an AI group.  There was a reason why those knights were feared, after all...

It does not mean though, that playing a quick running "glass cannon" setup is going to be boring.  Best weapon would be something heavy hitting and probably quite slow with decent range.  Normally weapons with good range are not worth it, because the group will catch up to you and you will deal reduced damage when fighting at close range.  But if you are sure to be faster than the enemies, you can afford extra range.  No shield, probably. 

Oh, I don't know.  Find a setup that you like and play for fun.  No matter what you do, you will not outperform a tank setup on defense, but maybe you can find a way to outperform a tank setup on offense.  I kinda doubt it, though. 

See how it works.  You one-shot everything with your Thor's hammer, while a quick weapon needs two or three shots.  Sure, but every hit you deal interrupts the enemy and either stops them as you move away, or lets you hit them again in case you stand your ground.  Or even lets friendly AI hit them.  So in the end one good hit is fairly often enough to tip the scales in your favor, whether the enemy drops down immediately or a second later.  Not a big difference in the end.

 

[Phalnax811]

Never done an AGI build but I imagine an Elite Scimitar and Thick Huscarl shield would be a good build...or 2 handed Sabre if you want range and fairly good speed.  Keep the shield though if you are being felted and need to slap it on your back and run.

 

[RalliX]

AGI itself only increases your maximum running speed, and gives a little WP when invested in. Athletics affects your maneuverability/weight factor. When you put on weight in Warband, it does two things: Decrease your maximum running speed, until you are only able to move at a slow jog,(think 0 agi 0 ath 0 weight as the minimum) and decrease the rate at which you accelerate and decelerate.

Players are just like horses, except they can strafe left and right. AGI, and Athletics(not in native though afaik) increase your max speed.
Ath is similar to a horse's maneuver stat. A higher athletics character can change the direction of his feet's movement faster than a lower athletics character, given the same encumbrance.

 

[Average]

AGI itself only increases your maximum running speed, and gives a little WP when invested in. Athletics affects your maneuverability/weight factor. When you put on weight in Warband, it does two things: Decrease your maximum running speed, until you are only able to move at a slow jog,(think 0 agi 0 ath 0 weight as the minimum) and decrease the rate at which you accelerate and decelerate.

Players are just like horses, except they can strafe left and right. AGI, and Athletics(not in native though afaik) increase your max speed.
Ath is similar to a horse's maneuver stat. A higher athletics character can change the direction of his feet's movement faster than a lower athletics character, given the same encumbrance.

I think AGI affects swing speed...and Athletics increases move speed...

 

[MickDick]

I'm confident agility increase swing speed.

Probably reload speed as well, but I haven't paid as much attention to that.

 

[Alexcalibur]

Two of the most powerful skills that fall under agility are riding and horse archery, which I think says a lot about how very agility focused characters perform at their best. If you want to try a character with agility as their dominant stat, then I suggest following the path of least resistance and doing horse archery. The "trick" with horse archery is to make every possible condition helpful towards you. For instance, you can fire easily directly in front of you, to your left, and behind you -- but aiming rightwards doesn't really happen. So you generally want to move counterclockwise around your enemies, keeping them to your left, while you take shots out of range of their combat weapons and making it difficult for them to hit you with missile weapons. You can also kite enemies into following you, setting them up for easy shots.

A horse archery character wants lots of ammo, which probably means that you'll want two weapon slots dedicated to arrows. With your bow taking up a weapon slot on its own, that leaves you with only one for close combat. So it's best to use this last slot on a two-handed weapon or polearm -- or both. The long axe (the Polearm/Two-Handed, multi-mode one) works really well for this purpose, as its different modes behave a little differently, particularly on horseback. Its blunt thrust also allows you to take prisoners with a weapon that is otherwise completely lethal. Of course, without a shield, you're going to be quite vulnerable when you're not moving at speed, so you'll also want solid armour. In turn, that'll entail a strength value on your character of at least 12... but given that this is an archery build, more strength brings more levels of power draw, so more is really better.

 

[RalliX]

I think AGI affects swing speed...and Athletics increases move speed...

I'm confident agility increase swing speed.

Probably reload speed as well, but I haven't paid as much attention to that.

Proficiency increases swing speed. Proficiency increases faster with weapon master, an AGI skill.
Athletics offsets weight penalties.
Go into your character editor, give a character 100-1000 agi, and 0 proficiency, then tell me how fast you swing compared to 0 agi and 0 proficiency. Then test with 300 proficiency.

 

[Ivan Khan]

I have tried agility builds and was disappointed. As Rallix said there is no real benefit to agility other than foot speed, and a very small improvement in swing speed (the max 5% is just not noticeable). Proficiency is what speeds up your swing, bow draw, or reloading crossbow.

The five extra points you get do not matter much after the first few levels. I raise agility to 12-18 to allow armored horses. I am happy with all the other agility skills within that range as well.

Oh, and I tested it. Time to fire a longbow at 9 agility and 87 archery about a second. At 30 agility and 87 archery, still about a second. At 400 proficiency, faster than 2/10th of a second.

 

[bakters]

One comment on horse archers.  In practice all you need is to make your reticule close at high speeds.  Raising it any further than that is more for fun than gain.  If I remember correctly for me it happened at Horse Archery at 5, but I suspect I could live with only four.

The reality is that in field battles it is hard to do much killing.  My main purpose as a horse archer was aggro management while using skirmishing tactics, and of course leading my troops in battle.  Missing a few more shots won't change much, all things considered, and sooner or later you will pump your proficiency high enough to achieve good accuracy at speed even with lower AGI stat. 

High riding skill lets you use cheaper horses.  Movement speed increase is less important, but it can come handy at times too.  No biggie. 

So if all of that is of small importance, what really matters for a horse archer?  Well, Power Draw, of course.  STR based skill, which you will need at high level to be really effective.  You can pump up both STR and AGI but pumping up AGI alone will give you rather poor results. 

That is reality.  Small and quick wins against strong but slow, once in a blue moon...

 

[MightyPaladin]

Some of my favorite characters were 15str/30agi builds.  The most fun of them were typically straight knights.  Morningstar/shield/lance.  5 power attack/10 weapon master - shield - riding. 

Run down light horses on your charger.  Kill an entire nord army with just trample damage.  Laugh while you do it.

 

[Ivan Khan]

One comment on horse archers.  In practice all you need is to make your reticule close ... it happened at Horse Archery at 5, but I suspect I could live with only four.

... what really matters for a horse archer?  Well, Power Draw, of course.  STR based skill, which you will need at high level to be really effective.  You can pump up both STR and AGI but pumping up AGI alone will give you rather poor results...

I find '3' in horse archery,  and '6' in power draw are minimum for a horse archer once you start fighting other factions. You also want to make sure you are at least a little faster too, so '6' in riding also helps. Proficiency in archery also needs to be at least '180' or better. Other important things for moving shots is to be moving as much as possible at the same speed and direction as your target, with easiest moving shot being ether chasing or when being chased. At these levels I can take out a Sad Knight chasing me with one head shot.

 

[bakters]

For me high riding skill is a "nice to have" but not a necessity.  Higher speed surely helps, but I can live without it. 

Anyway, all of this discussion feels a bit weird to me, because concentrating on combat stats does not give you a very powerful character.  Pumping INT and gaining lots of leader bonuses to party skills does that.  In light of that whether you waste some points on Strength or Agility is simply a matter of personal preference.  It will change the way you play, but in the end the results will not be all that great, especially in field battles where your own contributions is usually quite insignificant, even if your character is totally focused on combat.

Combat stats are simply not that important.

 

[Phalnax811]

I myself go for a leadership build...get some middle of the line battle stats and then pump into leadership and surgery (since I plan not to die...).  Plus it'll save you money on wages.

Obviously a 3-5 in Trainer and a 3-5 in inventory and prisoner management.

And I've gotten good enough to kill 30+ soldiers per big battle (5x that during sieges)

 

[bakters]

What is 30 compared to a 1000?

150 in a siege is more significant, and I never said that your own contribution is negligible in siege warfare.  There you actually count, often a lot.

 

[Alexcalibur]

30 compared to 1000 is exactly 3%, and when you're just one soldier in your force preventing those 30 enemy soldiers from imposing casualties on your guys, that influence begins to stack up.

 

[Nimbostratus]

For me high riding skill is a "nice to have" but not a necessity.  Higher speed surely helps, but I can live without it. 

Anyway, all of this discussion feels a bit weird to me, because concentrating on combat stats does not give you a very powerful character.  Pumping INT and gaining lots of leader bonuses to party skills does that.  In light of that whether you waste some points on Strength or Agility is simply a matter of personal preference.  It will change the way you play, but in the end the results will not be all that great, especially in field battles where your own contributions is usually quite insignificant, even if your character is totally focused on combat.

Combat stats are simply not that important.

Yeah, I get this. I tend to always play INT-heavy characters, so I figured I'd try something different for a change.

 

[Occam]

Go ahead and try an agility character, you can succeed in this game lots of different ways.

I played thru once (and conquered all of Caladria) limiting myself to starting stats...at character creation I had 12 str 12 agi 6 int 6 cha and I didn't add any more to that as I leveled. When then game was over I was level 20-whatever (maybe 30 some-odd, I forget) but my stats were still 12/12/6/6. So I never had more than 4 in any combat skill or more than 2 in party skills.

If you can win with 12/12/6/6 you should be able to win with 12/30/6/6 or any other combination.

 

[bakters]

30 compared to 1000 is exactly 3%, and when you're just one soldier in your force preventing those 30 enemy soldiers from imposing casualties on your guys, that influence begins to stack up.

  OK, lets consider this number.  For once, even weak characters get kills in battles.  I used to play and play currently a build with STR-10/AGI-7.  She's effective.  Surely she can get at least half of that (IMO easily) but let's assume that only one third. 

Oh, WTH, lets say she gets no kills whatsoever.  I don't care.

Now we can assume that focus on combat stats increases your army DPS by 3%.  How does it compare to a single point in Tactics, Leadership, Surgery or Wound Treatment in any prolonged campaign?  Not favorably. 

How about a single point in First Aid?  This could be a tossup, but I suspect that in a big battle like this all 8 of your companions staying up longer will have a higher chance of tipping the balance in your favor.  You will stay up longer too thanks to First Aid negating most of the damage you take in the round.  So it may be a tossup with one point, but two will surely help you more than 3%.

Now, I'm not saying that playing combat focused characters is "wrong" or whatever.  Only not efficient.  Anybody can play however they like and do what feels like fun to them, but it's also good to understand what they sacrifice in terms of overall effectiveness.